Talk:Statue of Liberty

Semi-protected edit request on 8 November 2023

I want to turn The copper statue, a gift from the people of France, was designed by French sculptor Frédéric Auguste Bartholdi and its metal framework was built by Gustave Eiffel. into The copper statue, a gift from the people of France, was designed by French sculptor Frédéric Auguste Bartholdi and its metal framework was built by Gustave Eiffel. Cleter (talk) 19:43, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

So you are suggesting a link, which would be a redlink, to copper statue? That's the change? Wehwalt (talk) 20:02, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

no Cleter (talk) 15:41, 19 January 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: The change is the addition of links to the nonexistent article Copper statue and the article metal – this falls squarely under WP:OVERLINK. Tollens (talk) 20:54, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

Handicap terminology outdated

Could someone with edit privileges update the following to remove the offensive term handicapped. Maybe change to “disability access”:

“A modern elevator was installed, allowing handicapped access to the observation area of the pedestal” Thejeremybrown (talk) 14:15, 14 December 2023 (UTC)

Is there a recommendation in the Manual of Style? Surely this is something other articles have encountered. Wehwalt (talk) 14:34, 14 December 2023 (UTC)

“accessible access” might be better. Check out the terminology section of this Wikipedia page - Disability Thejeremybrown (talk) 15:09, 14 December 2023 (UTC)

Changed to "disability access". Accessibility access might lead someone to change it feeling it sounds redundant.--Wehwalt (talk) 15:20, 14 December 2023 (UTC)

Thank you! I’m not sure if the term handicapped is still common in the USA - but sounds very outdated and offensive from an Australian perspective. Thejeremybrown (talk) 00:57, 16 December 2023 (UTC)

@Thejeremybrown, In the US at least, "handicapped" is still common and doesn't have the same offensive connotation that it has in Australia, per MOS:DISABILITIES#Political correctness and the euphemism treadmill . "Disability access" or "wheelchair access" are good alternatives in my opinion.

@Wehwalt, while I'm not aware of anything in the MOS per se, MOS:DISABILITIES does say that "disabled" is favored among disabled people. I have no problems with your edit. (I forget if the elevator was installed after the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990 was passed, though.) – Epicgenius (talk) 16:52, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

Fwiw

Chains were not a symbol of abolition. They were a symbol of breaking the chains of oppression and tyranny. 2601:803:4301:66A0:B404:C3D5:2A57:C866 (talk) 03:09, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Chains were not a symbol of breaking chains. Straining or broken chains are the quintessential symbol of abolition, although not always with specific reference to the racialized slavery of the Americas. — LlywelynII 21:11, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

Mom

I get that it's less important if it has become generally accepted that she isn't the basis for the statue (although are there no images of her at all?) but her name should match the one given on the sculptor's own page. — LlywelynII 21:11, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

Not walking

@Randy Kryn, I thought you knew better than edit warring without providing any sources; the only one that's in the lead says nothing about her walking. She's obviously resting on her left leg, and if she tries to move forward she'll fall. (try it yourself) The posture is quite common in classical sculpture. Ponor (talk) 13:39, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

Ponor, what's she going to do next, play hopscotch? I provided a source that you asked for to say she was walking (and not, as you insist, standing on one leg, yoga perhaps), so please strike the bit about edit warring. She's breaking the chains by moving forward, not by mind control Uri Geller-like. Thanks. Randy Kryn (talk) 14:56, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

not walking

I mean, you know how much we value /www.statueoflibertytour.com/blogs/statue-of-liberty-meaning-what-she-stands-for as reliable sources. She stepped on the chain, her upper body is slightly rotated, her left leg is straight below her left shoulder. That's a classical standing posture, no one can walk like that. Ponor (talk) 15:05, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

walking

sleeping

That's the official tour site for the Statue of Liberty, a source I provided and then you removed it and accused me of edit warring which I asked you to strike. I will again ping Johnbod (apologies, I ping you too much but not my fault you're an expert on these things) who will know classical from a modern 1886 statue walking while breaking her bonds. Randy Kryn (talk) 15:11, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

What about this picture that seems to depict the right foot almost vertical, which doesn't strike me as a standing position, rather walking? Wehwalt (talk) 16:32, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

People, please. Reliable sources (ideally, of what the author's intention was, not someone's interpretation) or it's plain bad WP:OR. She's stepping on the chain like someone would on a snake, not letting them go. This is classical contrapposto on a neo+classical sculpture. Many examples of it everywhere, including the linked classical sculpture article. Or Colossus of Rhodes. Or... Ponor (talk) 16:40, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

I hope she doesn't trip, standing on the chain and all with her toes. Thanks Wehwalt, a nice image from an angle that's not often seen. Glad this wasn't brought up a couple of days ago, as Ponor, you do realize the fact of her walking forwards and not striking a ballerina pose was duly reported to the world on the July 4 Statue of Liberty feature article summary, which was exposed to over five million readers. Aside from that, I like your guess, that she's stepping on the chain like it's a snake, good metaphoric image, thanks. Randy Kryn (talk) 22:33, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

This image implies that she is not stepping on the chain, as her shoe and toes are flat to the ground showing no indication of a chain beneath them further up the shoe (the statue portrays only a portion of the shoe and toes). Have never noticed before how much good detail there is of the right foot's shoe's design in this image which can be greatly expanded with a few clicks, and how the show is clasped together. But notice that it is of fairly flat construction and only shows minor bending, it is not very flexible, which also implies that the shoe of the left foot is not stepping on anything. Aside from all of this, thank you, Ponor, for an interesting discussion, and no, we cannot let OR and opinion appear in the text. Are the options being discussed that she is either walking forward, and by doing so broke the chain, or is the chain being crushed beneath her left foot, and do sources cover this topic with any clarity? Thanks. Randy Kryn (talk) 04:29, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

on your toes

A little less sarcasm and a little more reliable sources would definitely help in any discussion, if I may say. Since you're the person who introduced the ideas: what are the sources you used, may I ask?

I'm visiting my library next week, I'll bring a few myself. Patience, please. Ponor (talk) 06:36, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

As for my WP:OR, half jokingly because I (we) really don't know, I don't think that she, as an obviously white French lady, freed *herself* from the chains. She's a goddess, who enlightened the World, so people would abandon slavery. Ponor (talk) 06:45, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for bringing all of this up and for pursuing confirmation, and who knows, you may be right when sources are checked. I can't recall why I added it but have the impression it had been somewhere on the page already although I may be wrong. My sarcasm comes from having this as an idea I've never read before, that she's standing or balancing on the chain, which isn't affirmed by photographs. Then look at this photo - quite the stride. OR, as for her personification, it could mean that she represents all humanity and, as humanity, is stepping away from her chains. Randy Kryn (talk) 11:36, 7 July 2024 (UTC)