Talk:St. Joan of Arc Catholic Academy

Readability and appropriate content in infobox

(I'd already made these changes already but another editor reverted them.)

First, the colors in the infobox need to be changed as it's extraordinarily difficult to read black text on a dark blue background and somewhat difficult to read black text on a bright red background. Readability must be our foremost concern in an encyclopedia; nothing we do is worthwhile if no can read it!

Second, there is way too much trivial or directory information in the infobox. Please see WP:NOT for an overview of the kinds of material we don't include in encyclopedia articles or infoboxes. That would definitely include material such as the specific bus routes that serve a location, a podcast produced by people at the subject, and the full postal address. An encyclopedia article exists to give readers a broad overview of the subject with information essential to understand the subject uncluttered by ephemeral and trivial details or those better found in directories or the subject's own publications i.e., postal address, phone number. ElKevbo (talk) 17:04, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

External links modified

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Requested move 18 July 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Page moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) OhKayeSierra (talk) 07:51, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

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Jean Vanier Catholic Secondary School → St. Joan of Arc Catholic Academy – Board changed the name of Jean Vanier on July 16, 2020. 69.157.126.224 (talk) 19:26, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

Please provide reliable sources to support this. The school's web pageis still at https://www.tcdsb.org/schools/jeanvanier/Pages/default.aspx and still shows the name as "Jean Vanier", and the school district's page listing of schools still shows it as "Jean Vanier" 'https://www.tcdsb.org/school/Alphabeticalschooldirectory/Pages/default.aspx Meters (talk) 21:40, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

It appears from the sources added to the article that this name change has not yet happened. The July 17 source saying that the name had been approved by the Board of Trustee is just a twitter account. The actual July 16 meeting minutes simply say "Staff recommends that Jean Vanier Catholic Secondary School be renamed St. Joan of Arc Catholic Academy." https://tcdsbpublishing.escribemeetings.com/FileStream.ashx?DocumentId=21112 pg 325, When the name is actually changed we'll change the article. Meters (talk) 22:03, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

The context means they just recently approved it. Schools that carried the Jean Vanier name in Milton and Richmond Hill had set the precedent. Their Twitter handle: @SJOAA_TCDSB has changed recently to reflect it. —69.157.126.224 (talk) 22:08, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

What other schools have or have not done is irrelevant. What matters is whether this school has changed its name. The sources do not support that claim. I have restored the original version and reworded the article to correctly reflect the current status (a new name was proposed, and has been recommended by the board). Meters (talk) 22:26, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

This isn't the first time we've had editors making improperly sourced or overstated claims about this situation. Meters (talk) 22:47, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

• I guess neutral? On the one hand it seems a bit silly to oppose -- we know this was approved and is happening, and the school's Twitter account and the superintendent have both tweeted about the decision. But it can't hurt to wait until either external news sources have covered or the official website is updated.--Yaksar (let's chat) 03:45, 19 July 2020 (UTC)

It’s now confirmed. Toronto Star has the article released. —70.49.10.82 (talk) 01:41, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

Sorry, but this is still the same problem. The source simply confirms that the school "is being renamed". We know that. Again, we need a reliable source saying the the name has been changed. Meters (talk) 01:47, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

Hi Meters, if you never read a quote, “ “Staff are in the process of updating related school signage, websites, etc. to reflect this name change,” said Shazia Vlahos, the TCDSB chief of communications. “We will also be communicating this change to the school community.”” —-70.49.10.82 (talk) 01:58, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

Yes, it is being renamed. Change the article to say that. When the change is finished say so. Don't erase the current web page and pretend that the school does not have one at all until the URL is changed. And don't split the history up into "History as Jean Vanier" and "History as St. Joan of Arc". It's still the same school, and it has one history. The name change is just part of that history. Meters (talk) 02:23, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

I've added something about he current renaming. I won't object if there is consensus to split the history of the school along the name change, but I find it very odd. It simply seems like an attempt to dissociate the school from its original name (or rather, its original namesake). And for that matter, why is Jean Vanier referred to as the school's founder? Isn't he (or wasn't he) just its namesake? Meters (talk) 02:42, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

• Weak Support The Toronto Star coverage is sufficient for me. The quote below, alongside the school's official Twitter handle name change and the comments from the superintendent are evidence enough that this is now the name, even if it is slow to be updated.

• “Staff are in the process of updating related school signage, websites, etc. to reflect this name change,” said Shazia Vlahos, the TCDSB chief of communications. “We will also be communicating this change to the school community.”

--Yaksar (let's chat) 06:13, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

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The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

"Founder" section

I'm somewhat confused about this section -- the school was obviously named after Jean Vanier, but he is not the founder, is he? I'm not sure the first part of the main article should be his bio if he didn't have anything to do with the school's founding besides being named after it. Rather than have a section for unrelated parts of his bio, we should probably have a few sentences mixed into the actual article.--Yaksar (let's chat) 17:21, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

Yup, that's what I was wondering too. As far as I can tell he was the namesake rather than the founder. And I agree that there is far too much about him. Even if the school were still named for him we wouldn't need this much. It never shoudl have been there in the first place. Per WP:WPSCH/AG#OS "If the school is named after a notable person, include a wikilink to the article on that person. ... If applicable, describe the namesake's connection with the school." So, unless he has some connection to the school we don't know of the material currently in the lead is probably all we need to say in the body of the article. (Given the circumstances of the renaming we need a bit more than the schools' project recommendation.) I doubt anyone is going to complain if we just rewrite it. There has been a push for months to distance this school from its original namesake. Meters (talk) 18:07, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

Yeah, I've started to rework and have removed that part, but there is a lot of confusingly worded stuff in there still to wade through!--Yaksar (let's chat) 00:08, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

It's also mostly unsourced, so it's even tougher to discern what some of it means to clean up. There are parts we may just need to blow up and start over.--Yaksar (let's chat) 04:29, 29 July 2020 (UTC)