Talk:Spanish chivalry

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Delete the "History" section

I post here first, because as an anonymous user I have no rights and anything will be reverted without reading. I propose to delete the History on the following grounds:

• It does not talk about the history of Spanish chivalry, only its origins
• The part about islam has nothing to do with Spanish chivalry: the Spaniards wanted to destroy Islam, and they were not selfless, altruist, or kind. They earned the land they conquered under the laws of vassalage, so they did anything they could (good or bad) in order to take more lands.
• The French section begins with the Hundred Years War (1330-1450) and then jumps back to 975, then to 930, and finishes with the Council Clermond (1095 AD). It has nothing to do with Spain and the order is moronic.

186.109.3.110 (talk) 03:06, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

I totally agree. Moreover: The idea of Spanish "honor" and "chivalry" was NOT wholly imported from France, or with knighthood. A ton of it was indigenous to Islamic culture, especially the courtly love poetry that was famously supported by the Islamic taifas that rose in the 11th century. Poems like "Poema del mio Cid" show the mix--el Cid actually fights for both Christian and Muslim kings and leaders, and there's no real difference for his code: Muslim, Jewish, and Christian soldiers during the Crusades era ("reconquista" if you want to use that term) shared the inheritance of chivalric literature, whose development in France and Europe had actually been strongly influenced by Arabic lyric love poems exported to Provençal. I don't think it's helpful or accurate to talk as though European knights "imported" chivalry to Spain. It was developing during the 11th century out of a long previous Arabic (and now Christian from Provençal) love poetry tradition, at the same time as Christians and Muslims were fighting over territories in Spain, but it definitely did not arise because Christian knights were fighting Islam. 2603:7000:6402:9BAC:44A6:9E4:D7F0:4AB6 (talk) 15:25, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

I question these words; "Based on a true story, it tells of the Spanish hero El Cid, and takes place during the Reconquista, or reconquest of Spain from the Moors. “The protagonist of the poem is the historical Rodrigo Díaz de Vivar (c. 1045–1099),

I question these words from this site; "Based on a true story, it tells of the Spanish hero El Cid, and takes place during the concerning "El Cid" in reality?????????????96.19.147.40 (talk) 03:55, 3 January 2013 (UTC)Ronald L.Hughes

El Cid is fictitious, I agree. And (as I said above) he fought for both Christian and Muslim lords at various times. The situation is a TON more complex than what's being presented here. 2603:7000:6402:9BAC:44A6:9E4:D7F0:4AB6 (talk) 15:26, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

Complete lack of any explicit mention of Islamic chivalry

the article never at all except perhaps implicitly and very occasionally mentions Islamic chivalry In Spain this is ridiculous as it Is well known that huge parts of Spain were under the rule of the Muslim moors and that I have read numerous sources that say they were the most obsessed with chivalry of any culture in the world like the fine lady or gentleman below I post here first because as an anonymous user I have no rights, best wishes- a well-wisher. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.150.103.152 (talk • contribs)

Hello! Would you mind posting your sources so that they can be put into the article? Thankyou! Aflunters (talk) 04:23, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

You can see what's happening by looking at the articles on Arabic love poetry and Futuuwa (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Futuwwa). In the wake of the work of Roger Boase (1992: https://brill.com/display/book/edcoll/9789004502598/B9789004502598_s025.xml) and other scholars, Annie Schultz wrote a thesis on the influence in 2012: https://digital.library.txstate.edu/bitstream/handle/10877/4178/SchultzAnnie.pdf?isAllowed=y&sequence=1

This site is really good: https://www.spainthenandnow.com/spanish-literature/al-andalus-love-lyrics

Also on Kharjas (early Spanish Arabic lyric poems straddling all three religious traditions and several languages): https://www.spainthenandnow.com/spanish-literature/early-spanish-lyrical-poetry-kharjas 2603:7000:6402:9BAC:44A6:9E4:D7F0:4AB6 (talk) 15:32, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

Multiple issues

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• This article has multiple issues. Please help improve it or discuss these issues here on the talk page.

• This article may require copy editing for grammar, style, cohesion, tone, or spelling.

• This article's lead section may not adequately summarize its contents.

• This article provides insufficient context for those unfamiliar with the subject.

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Please help improve the article if you can. Thanks!   - Mark D Worthen PsyD (talk) (I'm a man—traditional male pronouns are fine.) 14:49, 14 May 2020 (UTC)