Talk:Southern Tagalog Arterial Road

From what I hear, the plan is to connect the South Luzon Expressway to the STAR Tollway, after which the whole thing will be integrated as one expressway with theo whole thing being called the South Luzon Expressway. When that happens, I suppose the two articles should be merged. Coffee 12:34, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

I proposed merging this article with the South Luzon Expressway article. The 7-km extension of the South Luzon Expressway from the Calamba Exit to the Santo Tomas Exit of the Southern Tagalog Arterial Road is already underconstruction. The SLEx will be connected with STAR Tollway and will be a single expressway. Akosikupal 06:37, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Marker image

To @Korean Rail Fan:

In regards to the marker used in the infobox, using the E2 marker is still presumptuous, as no signs showing that appears there, so that must be reverted, and leave the existing marker image as is. But, we should leave the STAR Tollway logo used on some signs, and rather add the E2 marker beside it (only if the signs are posted). TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 03:31, 18 July 2017 (UTC)

To @TagaSanPedroAko:

In regards to the marker used in the infobox, the fact that the official DPWH Region IV-A website clearly included the STAR Tollway alignment which is the only expressway that passes through Malvar, San Jose, Ibaan to name a few as seen here, it is not of mere presumption but a confirmation that DPWH considers it as part of the E2 route based on the map. With regards to signs posting, Yes, I will include both similar to how the Tarlac-Pangasinan-La Union Expressway Infobox is structured. Korean Rail Fan 05:38, 18 July 2017 (UTC)

We may add the E2 marker, but, we leave the STAR Tollway logo and note in the lead that the DPWH designation is not yet signed. Those E2 shields appear on Skyway and SLEX, but inside a blue sign with a white border and AH26 written on the lower part. So, while the DPWH have already assigned a route number for STAR Tollway, we need to note it as unsigned for now, but add the E2 shield image without removing the STAR Tollway logo there. -TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 13:32, 18 July 2017 (UTC)

I agree but instead of explicitly stating that there are no physical shields, maybe its best that we indicate that it is as being just included in the DPWH atlas. Otherwise, I guess this is already a case closed and we can have the current version as is. Korean Rail Fan 00:50, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

Requested move 4 April 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Withdrawn by nominator. (non-admin closure) —hueman1 (talk • contributions) 23:27, 12 April 2021 (UTC)

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Southern Tagalog Arterial Road → STAR Tollway – The short form with the "Tollway" suffix is more commonly used than its full form. Article should have been using the common name from the start. TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 22:08, 4 April 2021 (UTC)

• Support per WP:COMMONNAME. —hueman1 (talk • contributions) 01:09, 5 April 2021 (UTC)
• Support More commonly used name. LSGH (talk) (contributions) 04:53, 6 April 2021 (UTC)
• Support Per others above. VictorTorres2002 (talk) 05:04, 6 April 2021 (UTC)
• Leaning towards support (but weakly) analogous to both NAIA Expressway (instead of "Ninoy Aquino International Airport Expressway") and EDSA (road) (instead of "Epifanio de los Santos Avenue"). However, I have some reservations due to the likes of Manila–Cavite Expressway (of which CAVITEX is I believe what is more common), thus causing consistency issue. JWilz12345 (Talk|Contrib's.) 05:11, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

That shouldn’t be an issue. the decision to use full names is to accommodate our wider readership, but that doesn’t mean we’ll provide exceptions under WP:COMMONNAME. I’ve already moved Skyway from the unwieldy Metro Manila Skyway that’s only used in official documents (through GMaps continue using it since the Map Maker days). For NAIAX, the article has been named like that from the start, and there’s no need to spell out NAIA as both Filipinos and non-Filipinos will understand it as as the Philippines’ primary international airport. TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 07:44, 7 April 2021 (UTC)

In addition, naming the expressways by their common abbreviated names instead of their full names is somewhat problematic provided the abbreviations changed by time. To make this point (mentioned in WT:TAMBAY). NLEX was originally called NLE , then the final X was added, first small (during the Erap and PGMA years), then becoming big during the PNoy era. Same as with SLEX: SLE -> SLEx -> SLEX. In addition, the expressway’s full names are also equally used as their abbreviations, AFAIK, and using them instead of full names will not be attractive to our international readership. But again, that doesn’t mean we won’t make our naming scheme flexible to account prevailing usage. That would have meant Skyway and Startoll were named here in WP under their shorter, more recognizable names as found on signage rather than their officialese forms on paper.TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 08:03, 7 April 2021 (UTC)

• Move to STAR (expressway). The WP:COMMONNAME is actually just "STAR" as even the official logo and some signages don't carry the "Tollway" suffix (an old term for expressway that has been discontinued at least officially). This is also in line with other articles on PH toll roads that use the term expressway not tollway.--RioHondo (talk) 09:23, 7 April 2021 (UTC)

@RioHondo: Don't you think that that name is kinda unrecognisable? —hueman1 (talk • contributions) 10:10, 7 April 2021 (UTC)

I would say people are more familiar with “STAR Tollway” or “STAR Toll/Startoll”. The previous logo says STAR Tollway until SMC Tollways took over, but still, the longer form pre-SMC stuck.-TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 19:15, 7 April 2021 (UTC)

• Oppose WP:Article titles policy states that "Abbreviations and acronyms are often ambiguous and thus should be avoided unless the subject is known primarily by its abbreviation and that abbreviation is primarily associated with the subject". I don't believe this is the primary topic of STAR and a policy cannot be overridden by local consensus. (t · c) buidhe 19:01, 11 April 2021 (UTC)

  This RM is about moving Southern Tagalog Arterial Road to STAR Tollway (presently a redirect). @Buidhe: Are you referring to RioHondo's suggestion? The suggestion uses the abbreviation, but take note there is a parenthetical in their proposal.-TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 20:52, 12 April 2021 (UTC)

  My reading of the policy is that it's not allowed to use acronyms in titles unless it's the primary topic of the acronym. If this is not the primary topic of STAR than STAR Tollway would not be allowed either. (t · c) buidhe 20:55, 12 April 2021 (UTC)

• Withdraw: I may not completely agree with the current title out of recognizability, but having read the policies used to argue against the new title (and Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Abbreviations#Acronyms in page titles), I agree the article name can remain as it is. Having "STAR Tollway" and "STAR (expressway)" as redirects are all fine under policy and MOS guidance. Someone searching for STAR Tollway will be automatically redirected to the full name, and the name fulfills natural disambiguation to differentiate it from other things with the same acronym. -TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 21:32, 12 April 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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