Talk:Sonic Lost World/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Jaguar (talk · contribs) 19:16, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

This is pure GA material. ☠ Jaguar ☠ 19:16, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

Indeed, but as a major contributor and almost the sole author of the "Reception" section, I would like to state my disagreement with Tezero's large trim of the material. Comparing both versions, I feel that Tezero's revision is less informative than the original. Here is an example:

• Original: "Turi "never got a good feel for the rhythm of wall running and jumping, and felt lucky to pass sections where it was forced." Hargreaves, Walton, and Official Nintendo Magazine '​s Matthew Castle agreed. Ingenito pointed out that Sonic "has a tendency to wall run on any vertical surface he's airborne near, whether I want him to or not". However, IGN's Jose Otero said the parkour "felt great" and "turned most obstructions into minor hurdles" in the 3DS version, while Nintendo Insider's Alex Seedhouse called the parkour "far more responsive" on 3DS."
• Trimmed: "Turi "never got a good feel for the rhythm of wall running and jumping, and felt lucky to pass sections where it was forced." Ingenito pointed out that Sonic "has a tendency to wall run on any vertical surface he's airborne near, whether I want him to or not". However, IGN's Jose Otero said the parkour "felt great" and "turned most obstructions into minor hurdles" in the 3DS version, while Nintendo Insider's Alex Seedhouse called the parkour "far more responsive" on 3DS."

It's a subtle difference, but the "agrees" Tezero calls "pointless" better convey the widespread nature of the criticism. Simply deleting the material, with no corresponding additions or reorganization, actually changes the tone by providing equal space to positive and negative feedback. In addition, we no longer have any idea who "Castle" is or what publication he is writing for in the current revision.TheTimesAreAChanging (talk) 00:44, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

That's fine, TheTimesAreAChanging; I've re-added the Castle stuff. I do, however, stand by my stance that the original version was too long, and the current one may still be. If you'd like to help by trimming quotes and paraphrasing, be my guest, but I feel that, given the fact that the review scores exist and quotes weren't being used for those "agrees" voices, the shorter length is worth it. Tezero (talk) 01:19, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

I would be happy if something was agreed on the reception section! To clear up my confusing comment earlier ("this is pure GA material"), I tend to focus on more or less the beauty of the prose and I didn't read through the whole article then. Anyway I have to go to college for an hour now, so I'll complete the actual review today. ☠ Jaguar ☠ 14:24, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

1. Is it reasonably well written?

   A. Prose is "clear and concise", without copyvios, or spelling and grammar errors:

   B. MoS compliance for lead, layout, words to watch, fiction, and lists:

2. Is it factually accurate and verifiable?

   A. Has an appropriate reference section:

   B. Citation to reliable sources where necessary:

   C. No original research:

3. Is it broad in its coverage?

   A. Major aspects:

   B. Focused:

4. Is it neutral?

   Fair representation without bias:

5. Is it stable?

   No edit wars, etc:

6. Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?

   A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid fair use rationales are provided for non-free content:

   B. Images are provided if possible and are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions:

7. Overall:

   Pass or Fail:

Initial comments

Lead

• "in Europe and Australia" - just curious, why isn't 'Australasia' used?

• Well, I haven't seen release information for anywhere in Asia outside Japan, and Japan had a different release date from Australia. Tezero (talk) 22:00, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

• "It is part of the Sonic the Hedgehog series, the first title in the series on an eighth-generation home console" - think you're missing a vital conjunction here It is part of the Sonic the Hedgehog series and is the first title in the series on an eighth-generation home console.

• Technically the first version is also correct as the second clause modifies the first (as a simpler example, consider the sentence "That kid's a great ball player, a real hotshot"), but I suppose it's clearer the second way. Done. Tezero (talk) 22:00, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

• The lead section is missing large parts of the development and how it was received by critics. The plot takes up most of the second paragraph whereas only the development and reception makes up of three sentences combined. The lead could be better summarised/re-structured if this were to meet the GA criteria, otherwise the prose is great.

• Yeah, there was more there originally, but a couple users pruned development information because they didn't agree with it, regardless of what the sources said. I've added some back, but in what should be a less controversial style. Tezero (talk) 22:00, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

Gameplay

• "as he travels across the Lost Hex" - is this the setting of the game? The Lost Hex was not mentioned in the lead

• Done. Tezero (talk) 22:00, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

• "This also translates to the 3DS version, the first handheld game in the series to feature 3D gameplay" - doesn't make sense, wasn't Sonic Rush + Adventure for the DS also in 3D?

• Yeah, didn't catch that. I think Generations for 3DS also had some 3D parts. Reworded - Lost World was the first fully 3D Sonic game for the DS. Tezero (talk) 22:00, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

• "Also returning from Colors are the Wisp abilities" - aren't the Wisps characters?

• "Wisp" is being used as a genitive noun here (think "dog house" or "Sonic characters"), but you're right, it's a little confusing, so reworded. Tezero (talk) 22:00, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

Development

Prose is good in this section and is well referenced. However, wouldn't it be worth mentioning downloadable content and patches in the lead?

Done. Tezero (talk) 22:00, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

Reception

• The closure of OMN is the only concern in this section. I'm not sure if the references should be replaced with anything else though? I'll try and find a physical copy of the October 2013 issue if that makes it better?

• Yeah, see if you can. For now, I'll try archiving. Tezero (talk) 22:00, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

• Regarding the disagreement with the reception section, it does appear longer the usual but this wouldn't affect the GAN (it's not as if it takes up half of the article!)

• Yeah, I think there's a recent trend of longer reception sections being the norm for VG articles. I'm ultimately fine with whatever TheTimesAreAChanging wants to do, as long as he doesn't knock it up too much. Tezero (talk) 22:00, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

• I raised the issue here because I hoped Jaguar might offer a second opinion. I would prefer to simply revert your trim, but hardly consider the matter important enough to risk starting an edit war.TheTimesAreAChanging (talk) 22:41, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

• I think that it's of appropriate length, albeit somewhat long but it shouldn't affect the GAN. Trimming or expanding is fine, just as so long as it doesn't interfere with the content. The only way the reception section would interfere with the GAN would be if it were disproportionally long - for example I brought a town to GA in June and the 'transport' section almost took up half of the article! The reception section here doesn't include jargon or trivia, so content isn't a problem. I hope that clears things up? ☠ Jaguar ☠ 13:04, 12 November 2014 (UTC)

References

• Ref 32 is dead - is redirects to the main Nintendo page

• I... don't see any ref like that. Tezero (talk) 22:00, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

• As with ref 70, 65 and 66 - they previously belonged to OMN (RIP) which explains why they do not exist any more. These references are used frequently in the article, so these should be replaced if possible otherwise it would leave a blackout in some parts of the article. A pain I know...

• Fixed the ONM links. I decided to double-bag it and archive the Wayback Machine links using WebCite just in case the ONM website goes the way of 1UP. Tezero (talk) 22:05, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

On hold

The prose in this article is good and is definitely GA standard alone. The biggest concern are the dead OMN links due to the both the magazine's and site's closure (irrelevant, but I am genuinely sad about hearing this, I have all issues between 2006-2011 and collected them when I was a kid :-(). The dead links need to be filled as it did take up a lot of citations. There are also a few prose issues which need to be clarified, otherwise most parts of the article are looking good. I'll put this on hold for seven days, once they have been addressed it should have no problem passing the GAN. ☠ Jaguar ☠ 20:24, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

Close - promoted

After seeing vast improvements made to the article, the conclusion has come to meet the GA criteria. As I mentioned regarding the reception section, it shouldn't really interfere with the GAN as it isn't either too long or too disproportionate. The prose in this article is excellent (as per most Sonic articles) and is looking like thin FA material already. Anyway well done on all the work guys! ☠ Jaguar ☠ 13:04, 12 November 2014 (UTC)