I'm not sure that the mentions of Tokyo Disneyland and Korea are actually related to Natsume's theory. In the Times piece the Tokyo Disneyland info is preceded by the text "Other Japanese commentators have identified a deep social ill in the perma-smiles of the service industry". I take this as meaning that it isn't directly related to the theory, but is an illustration of the wider social climate in Japan. I admit to being on shakier ground with the Korea material, as I don't have the source available. (Where did you find it, by the way?) I am guessing that the source doesn't mention Natsume's theory directly given the context and the Tokyo Disneyland example, but I would be happy to be proven wrong. I do think that there is space on Wikipedia for material like this, but in this article I think including it would have the effect of making Natsume's theory seem more prominent than it really is. The theory does not appear to be widely accepted in mental health circles in Japan, even if the phenomenon of false smiles leading to depression may be recognised. If these other authors were actually writing about Natsume's theory, fine, but that doesn't appear to be the case at least for Fujiwara. If this material is to be included, I think it would be a better fit in an article about the wider phenomenon of excessive smiling and depression. Maybe this whole article could be incorporated into such a page? — Mr. Stradivarius on tour ♪ talk ♪ 03:28, 18 March 2013 (UTC)Reply
- I found the Korean article in an English-language student magazine at a Korean uni, sadly they stopped publishing it online few years back. It actually sparked my interest in this topic. If you want to move some of the content, please do so, but the Korean article does suggest that the issue of also known in Korea. Sadly, I cannot read Korean to help more with that :( --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 02:34, 19 March 2013 (UTC)Reply
- I thought it must have mentioned the general issue of fake smiles and depression in Korea - I'm not worried about that. I'm more concerned with whether or not the source mentions Natsume's theory. If the theory is mentioned, then I don't see any problem with keeping the Korea material in the article. If it isn't, though, it would seem a little WP:SYNTH-ey to mention it in an article about the theory itself. If the article isn't online, perhaps you could scan me a copy? Or maybe just give a quote of the relevant passage? Sorry to be a pain, but it would be much appreciated. Best — Mr. Stradivarius on tour ♪ talk ♪ 03:21, 19 March 2013 (UTC)Reply
- I am pretty sure it does, that's how I found about it the first place, but I threw away my copy for recycling a while ago. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 06:13, 19 March 2013 (UTC)Reply
- I found and scanned the Korean article for you; if you give me your email I can sent you the scans. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 06:25, 20 March 2013 (UTC)Reply
- Thanks for that, it's much appreciated - but actually it's not necessary any more. I found that the Hanyang Journal does actually keep its back issues online here, and I have just accessed the article and read it through. It's interesting - it mentions smile mask syndrome, but doesn't mention Natsume at all. To get to the bottom of this I think we would need to read the book referenced in the article, Reading Syndrome in Our Society by Bae Woo-ri, but I can't find it online, so I suspect it is written in Korean, not English. Because the article does actually mention SMS, I think we can keep it. I have to go for now - will follow up in a little while. — Mr. Stradivarius on tour ♪ talk ♪ 02:21, 21 March 2013 (UTC)Reply
- Well done finding it, I couldn't. How do you open the archives? I get some weird octet-stream download option only... --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 04:01, 21 March 2013 (UTC)Reply
- It's a Windows executable, so no luck if you run a different OS. Didn't work at all in Linux for me, but it worked on XP no problem. There's a book reader built into the file, and I think it's free of malware... As for the Tokyo Disneyland mention, I suppose we can keep it after all. This other mention throws enough doubt onto the origins of the theory that we should probably keep it in until we know what is what. That clocks the article in at 2300 characters including spaces, which is enough for DYK if I remember correctly. I'll go and give the ok on the nomination page, though I might tweak the hook as well. — Mr. Stradivarius on tour ♪ talk ♪ 04:59, 21 March 2013 (UTC)Reply
