Talk:Sixty-six (card game)

Suggested merge with Sixty Six

Sechsundsechzig and Sixty six seem to be the same game, with separate articles, and with Sixty Six referring to a four-player game. Should they be merged? ConDem^Talk 03:55, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

They are not the same game at all. I can see that Sixty-six is certainly based on Sechsundsechzig, but it is not a game you can play with the German half-decks. If this is a common variant in English-speaking countries, I think they should stay seperate, as the two player Sechsundsechzig is very popular in Germany and Austria (German name for the German game)  The Steve  06:45, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Reading again, it looks like it's not the same game. Although as far as I can tell, they are both played with German half-decks. I'll remove the merge notices. ConDem^Talk 08:28, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

By the way, I moved Sixty Six to Sixty-six (game) to suit WP:MOS. ConDem^Talk 16:01, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

You cannot keep score in the way suggested with German decks, as they have neither fours nor sixes. You would have to contrive a way to keep score with the 7s and 8s. Using fours and sixes is a common Euchre convention, which makes Sixty-Six look primarily North American.  The Steve  09:32, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

The deduction that 66 is North American, I think is astute because in America the only players of 66 who did not grow up in Austria or Germany, are found in Polish American communities. The game in US is to 15 (7 and 8s for scoring), usually 4 player (2 teams of 2) and occasionally 3 player cut-throat. These players also all knew how to play Euchre and Pinochle. But the game in Poland (apparently mostly played on trains) sounds like (from some Internet searching so not included here because it would be original research) the Austrian and German game played with 2. I played the game in Austria (Innsbruck), I thought it was called "Farmer" colloquially.71.166.117.40 (talk) 19:43, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

Ok so my memory was correct it was called "farmer" http://www.pagat.com/marriage/bauernschnapsen.html 71.166.117.40 (talk) 19:55, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

Shnapsen

I moved Shnapsen and Snapzli to the bottom of the page to avoid confusion (ie. "...uses a 20 or 24 card deck") and because this article should concentrate on Sechsundsechzig. Ideally, both a Shnapsen and a Snapzli article should be created. I am not the one to do this, as I have never played either of them and am not familiar enough with the differences. Searching around, I found that closing is different in Shnapsen and that Snapzli is usually four players.

 The Steve  03:45, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, but I disagree. Sechsundsechzig and Schnapsen are the same game. It's simply one of many cases where Austrian German has a different word for the same thing. The German language Wikipedia also treats them in a single article, which says in the second paragraph: "The two names are usually used synonymously, although strictly they are two minimally different modes of playing – the differences will be observed in the following." An encyclopedia is not a dictionary. It treats related topics in one article when it's more illuminating to do so. Even in Austria the Schnapsen pack that you can buy in shops has 24 cards [1] [2] (both in the French- and German-suited version), although most people use only 20. In Germany some people play with a full 32 card skat pack; that's how I learned it. Since the value of the 9 and below in tricks is 0, this variation in pack size has been a very common feature in European card games for centuries, and in general is not a reliable distinguishing feature. I wouldn't be surprised at all if some regions near the border also played the game with 20 cards while calling it Sechsundsechzig, or conversely. This is a folk game, not a book game.

As to reliable sources, both David Parlett (Penguin Book of Card Games) and pagat.com [3] treat both games in a single article. Pushing the word "Schnapsen" down to the bottom of the article is also problematic because it is the Austrian national card game, also being played in variants for 3 and 4 players and in tournaments, while in Germany it merely has the status of a 2-player substitute for skat.

I also doubt that we should have a separate article for Snapszer/Snapszli. Notice that the first name is simply the Hungarian spelling for Schnapser, and recall that Austria and Hungary used to be part of a single country, Austria-Hungary. There would also be a sourcing problem, since all reliable sources on Snapszli seem to be in Hungarian. The German language Wikipedia also doesn't treat Snapszli beyond mentioning the alternative Hungarian name Snapszer. --Hans Adler (talk) 08:39, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Now you see, all of this is interesting information. I also learned Sechsundsechzig with a 32 card deck, and I know about the 20 card version, but haven't played it that way. You're suggesting that which version played depends mostly on what kind of deck you have at the time. Anyway, I'll believe you and add the other names at the top. I'd still like to leave the 24-card 2-player game as the main article and leave the 20-card and four person versions as variations. We may want to redirect "Shnapsen" to this article as well.  The Steve  04:21, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

I agree with Hans on not splitting. I created a Schnapsen article with a redirect to Sixty-six (card game). Strangely, King (card) had a red link to Schnapsen. There may be others. Also, I agree that the 20-card variant is not only more prominent in Austria, but the game in general is much more popular in Austria than in Germany. Seems weird, frankly, to see the variant listed at the bottom as a mere footnote. --Trweiss (talk) 22:36, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

Closing the pack

In both David Parlett's Penguin Book of Card Games and the "Schnapsen" page at pagat.com, it's stated or implied that you can close the pack whether your opponent has taken tricks or not, and that after closing, you must make the usual total 66 to win. Are there local variations in this rule? PeterBiddlecombe (talk) 15:09, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

I think (based mainly on the rules that I have seen in print and online) that the rule is simply described incorrectly here. The German version of the article says nothing about such a restriction, and I would expect it to be more correct. --Hans Adler (talk) 15:39, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

I guess I learned it wrong, then. I was probably taught a local version of closing. I'm sure there are lots of weird extra things out there.  The Steve  05:43, 1 June 2009 (UTC)