Talk:Six Nations of the Grand River

Name of this article

My understanding, and I may be wrong about this, is that Six Nations of the Grand River is a reservation, a political entity where certain populations of the Iroquois Confederacy have lived for many years. It has a elected band council and chief separate from the Confederacy council that serves as the point of articulation between the people that live there and the government of Canada. That said, it's comprised of members from many different First Nations and I don't believe it necessarily constitutes a First Nation itself. I believe Six Nations of the Grand River or, failing that Six Nations of the Grand River reserve, or Six Nations reserve or even Six Nations Indian reserve as it's colloquially known, might better capture what it is. fet mar (talk) 23:46, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Suggestions

• nice pictures
• an infobox, pic of Iroquois flag is available
• history section contains
• Overall cleanup. This has been mentioned but a few sentences are worded without regard to proximate sentences, some seem to be in the wrong section. A good sweep for outliers should do this page well.
• More sections :) Here's a few ideas from section I've seen to get the ball rolling. Some have already been mentioned in this discussion page.
  • government, geography, education, environment, culture, entertainment, arts, tourism, media, food, sports, economy, demographics, crime, in popular culture, parks... fet mar (talk) 22:16, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Possible copyvio

• The section "Six Nations land reward chronology" on appears to be a cut & paste from [1]. I copied the other material to a temp page. --Big_Iron 09:56, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

The above page actually appears to have been cut & paste from the following [2] ("The Hamilton Spectator") --Big_Iron 21:57, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Possible Content Issues

The page does not even mention the Mohawk Institute residential school, and it certainly should. The use of the word "aboriginal" seems inappropriate. The word "native" is more conventional.

Twentieth century history?

This article is inadequate in the extreme! It does not mention the later history of the Six Nations of Grand River, including the further land sales, the dispute over governance which led to the deposition of the Six Nations Council by the Canadian government, or the latter's appeal to the League of Nations. We're not told how the area is governed, what religions prevail, what the economy of it is like, or even the geography of the area.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.93.17.168 (talk • contribs) July 15, 2009

Requested move 2 August 2015

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved, albeit weakly. Ultimately no one has opposed the move and it's been almost four weeks. The concern that this article is about the administrative unit appears to have been addressed. Jenks24 (talk) 16:15, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

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Six Nations of the Grand River First Nation → Six Nations of the Grand River – This is a confederacy of six nations, consisting of several First Nations, and is not a First Nation in and of itself. Please see Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development Canada's profile of the Six Nations' main reserve. FUNgus guy (talk) 00:58, 2 August 2015 (UTC) --Relisted. Natg 19 (talk) 06:40, 10 August 2015 (UTC) Relisted. Jenks24 (talk) 15:59, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

• Their own website refers to it as the "Six Nations First Nation".[3] The term appears to denote the unit of government - typically corresponding to only one First Nation - instead of however many First Nations actually inhabit the reserve. Furthermore, the topic of the article is the reserve, and not the First Nations, each having their own article, or their confederacy, which is discussed at Iroquois. I've no opinion on whether the qualifier is actually of any use, other than to confuse. Alakzi (talk) 00:39, 10 August 2015 (UTC)
  • It IS a First Nation, clearly, but the title is horribly clunky. I have mixed feelings on this. I'd like to view further discussion. Do all other First Nations articles have "first nation" in their title? There is both a reserve and a government, I presume, but names are not always parallel, (e.g. Confederated Salish and Kootenai Tribes and Flathead Indian Reservation in the USA as an example) Montanabw^(talk) 21:45, 10 August 2015 (UTC)
    • "First Nation" is used for many Canadian native groups. Batchewana First Nation of Ojibways, for example. But they are one people, not six. The Six Nations of the Grand River consist of the Mohawks (Mohawks of the Bay of Quinte First Nation, Lower Mohawk First Nation, Upper Mohawk First Nation and Walker Mohawk First Nation), Onondaga (Bearfoot Onondaga First Nation and Onondaga Clear Sky First Nation), Delaware (Delaware First Nation), Seneca (Konadaha Seneca First Nation and Niharondasa Seneca First Nation), Cayuga (Lower Cayuga First Nation and Upper Cayuga First Nation), Oneida (Oneida First Nation) and Tuscarora (Tuscarora First Nation) peoples. This article is about their shared territory ("reserve") and their collective government. FUNgus guy (talk) 03:37, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

Alakzi, I couldn't find in your link use of 'First Nation', except in the sentence "A small proportion of the land is held by the First Nations", this use would not seem to preclude the suggested text, whereas present text suggests the 'Six Nations' are in fact one 'First Nation'.Pincrete (talk) 21:09, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

It says under "Population", "according to the Six Nations Lands/Membership Department as of December 2013, the total band membership is 25,660, with 12,271 living within the Six Nations First Nation" (emphasis mine). The Six Nations themselves are not one nation; it is the administrative unit which is called a First Nation here. Alakzi (talk) 21:23, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

Alakzi, thankyou for the clarification, I'm out of my depth here, but if I may offer some observations. 'First Nation' used as meaning the admin. unit is not what the article is about, it is primarily about the people, which would (to me) suggest the rename is apt. I noticed that the opening sentence of the lead says, "Six Nations (or Six Nations of the Grand River) is the largest First Nations reserve" this defines the subject as the reserve, rather than the people of the reserve, which is what most of the content is about. Hope observations are not hopelessly ignorant. Pincrete (talk) 18:58, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Six Nations of the Grand River/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Comment(s)

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This article completely ignored issues of genocide and residential schools. It also avoids issues of colonization through churches and the abuses brought about by these churches. There is also a sense of desperation as if "Indians" were disappearing, in fact they are not and the struggle is still being fought. The sale of the land seems innocent but in fact it was part of a project of manipulation and theft by both the U.S. government and British Empire. The return of lands not legally sold and the right to working ecosystems is at the center of issues for Indigenous people on Turtle Island (what Europeans and Euro-Americans call North America). Further, "agriculture" as promoted by the Europeans was never an effective system of food production as land was continually being "over-farmed" and the land became non-functional for many Euro-American farmers as "market forces" were driving the poorer farmers to adopt methods that were not conducive to the regeneration of the land. This system of intensive farming is being criticized world wide as perfectly good farmland that had grown crops not recognized by Europeans as "edible" or "desired" on the global market was being turned into land used to grow mono-culture crops that are actually less productive and disrupt the ecosystem of the farm making it non-usable within one or two decades.

Last edited at 16:16, 27 August 2015 (UTC). Substituted at 06:19, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

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