Talk:Sidbury (disambiguation)

Requested move 3 August 2018

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: although it is true that being named after something else doesn't disqualify the newer topic from being primary, there is no consensus to move the pages at this time, per the discussion below. Dekimasuよ! 23:47, 13 August 2018 (UTC)

---

• Sidbury (disambiguation) → Sidbury
• Sidbury → Sidbury, Devon

– While this may be the largest, I don't think it is primary over the other meanings, also Sidbury, Shropshire is still a CP. Crouch, Swale (talk) 08:47, 3 August 2018 (UTC)--Relisting. The editor whose username is Z0 15:40, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

Disagree in my view Sidbury is the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, the proposer of the move should show by means of WP:DETERMINEPRIMARY the justification for the move, else the status quo should remain. Wayne Jayes (talk) 13:44, 3 August 2018 (UTC)

Views [[1]] however only Sidbury, Eastern Cape is ambiguous here, we don't yet have stats for Shropshire so that's difficult. Crouch, Swale (talk) 13:48, 3 August 2018 (UTC)

If a primary topic cannot be established then the DAB page is generally placed there by default, see WP:PRECISION. Crouch, Swale (talk) 09:19, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

Sidbury, Eastern Cape can't possibly be a WP:PRIMARYTOPIC because it is named after the original Sidbury, the one in Devonshire. Sidbury, Shropshire is not sufficiently notable to have a wikipedia article (Google maps show that it's about five houses https://goo.gl/maps/nB8ErgBjbzv) so it's not the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, so I think it's clear that the town in Devonshire is the primary topic and the article names should stay as they are. Wayne Jayes (talk) 08:32, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

I didn't say Sidbury, Eastern Cape was the primary topic! I only said that there isn't one and there is plenty of coverage of the Shropshire one, there is more than 5 houses (or at least was). If it was just between Devon and Eastern Cape, Devon would be a clear winner but it isn't. This is not similar to Gloucester/Gloucester, Massachusetts as there is no evidence the Shropshire one is named after the Devonian one. Crouch, Swale (talk) 14:23, 7 August 2018 (UTC)

I didn't think that you did say Sidbury, Eastern Cape was the primary topic; I was using a process of elimination to argue that the Devonshire town is the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. I think we've both exhausted our arguments and we need to wait on some other wikipedians to weigh in to hopefully get some sort of consensus. (not sure that that will happen though, it seems we're the only dogs in this fight :-) )Wayne Jayes (talk) 14:36, 7 August 2018 (UTC)

• Support. Being named after something else is not a disqualifier to possibly being primary, explicitly: "Being the original source of the name does not make a topic primary. Boston, Massachusetts is the primary topic for Boston, not the English town it took its name from." WP:DETERMINEPRIMARY. And the page views indicate that the current topic isn't primary in usage. -- JHunterJ (talk) 16:41, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose. There are only two Sidbury with articles, the Devon and the Eastern Cape. And of those, the Devon one enjoys greater page views, has eight times the population, and for the record also does enjoy the status of being an earlier settlement. And comparing Sidbury, Eastern Cape with Boston, Massachusetts is one of the more crazy analogies I've seen here!  — Amakuru (talk) 17:57, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

  I didn't compare the two towns. I countered the incorrect assertion that "Sidbury, Eastern Cape can't possibly be a WP:PRIMARYTOPIC because it is named after the original Sidbury". It enjoys greater page views, but not the required "much greater than any other topic". -- JHunterJ (talk) 19:06, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

  As pointed out if it was just between Devon and Eastern Cape, it would be obvious but because of the Shropshire one and several PTMs I would argue that no primary topic would be better. Crouch, Swale (talk) 19:13, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

  And I find myself in the unusual position of disagreeing with both sides. The red links usually and PTMs definitely aren't in contention, so it is just between Devon and Eastern Cape, but I don't find that an obvious win for Devon, since neither blows the other out of the water in views (since they each typically hang out in the single digits). -- JHunterJ (talk) 19:25, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

  My point is that if it was just between Devon and Eastern Cape and Shropshire and the PTMs didn't exist, it would be easy and simple to put Devon at the base name and link to Eastern Cape, that way readers seeking it have only one click and land on the place that their place was named after. If there was a DAB with just Devon and Eastern Cape then readers would both have 1 click (something you pointed out in the Perth RM). There is debate about Ipswich Town Hall because the Massachusetts one doesn't appear to be covered here at all. Because of Shropshire and the 3 PTMs its not possible to avoid a DAB. The redlink for Shropshire is valid as its clearly notable and does contain a blue link with mention but I agree its not that helpful for readers at the moment. I agree with your point that Eastern Cape can still be a competitor even though it was named after the Devonian one. Crouch, Swale (talk) 06:14, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose. Sidbury in the primary topic by usage. From page views referenced above, switch to monthly view: Devon gets 300ish, East Cape gets 50ish. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 16:04, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

  What about the Shropshire one? Maybe we should wait until that is created. Crouch, Swale (talk) 16:17, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

---

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.