Talk:Shaken, not stirred

Untitled

James Bond is already more than double the recommended maximum length for an article. Since there's been no comment on the merge suggestions, I'm going to turn this into a brief article on the bond martini. —Michael Z. 2006-02-09 16:51 Z

If you can expand and improve it, that's great. I'm doubtful there's enough for a stand-alone article, but maybe it could be a good section in the Martini cocktail article. Jonathunder 16:57, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

I think all of this material would be a distracting tangential topic in the martini article. Much of it is mentioned there, but it works as its own slightly over-done topic here, about Bond's martinis as a pop-culture phenomenon. What do you think? —Michael Z. 2006-02-09 18:18 Z

You did expand the article more than I thought would be possible, and the material you added is good, so I will defer to your judgment. Jonathunder 22:44, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. I think I gathered 99.9% of it from a few other articles. Also linked to it from some likely places, and added the appropriate redirects. Cheers. —Michael Z. 2006-02-09 22:55 Z

shaking also breaks up the ice, and allows tiny bits through the strainer, diluting a martini with water. dunno if that's an addition that should be included... 216.114.134.44 04:02, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

A veteran barman I used to know told me a similar story - he claimed that if you use cubed ice, stirring the drink cools it without diluting it with too much water. If you shake it, little bits of ice get chipped off - and being smaller, melt more quickly resulting in a colder - but significantly more diluted drink. However, if that's what you wanted, a professional barman such as you find in the swanky places Bond frequents should be happy to crush the ice before stirring it into the drink - thereby giving you the cooling and diluting effects without the 'bruising' from shaking it. Going for a diluted drink seems somehow very un-Bondlike - but it's evident that there are enough other reasons to prefer it shaken to account for this quirky preference. SteveBaker 01:57, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

'bruising' is the term given to the change in flavor profile when the gin combines with CO2 in the air and slightly acidifies, causing a change in the flavor profile. Kina Lillet would kill the taste right off, so that's little worry. From the story, it seems like James bond intends to quaff this rather silly cocktail in one gulp and get a quick .1 or so BAC, enjoying the dry mouthfeel and the aroma and bite of the gin, and the bitterness on the back of the throat. It would probably make me throw up, but he puts pepper in his vodka too, so *shrug*.

Most bartenders I have met (including myself) will tell you that you should stir a martini very gently to get it as cold as you can with as little water in the drink as possible. Stirring vigorously will add more water. Shaking will add even more, as more ice melts and any chips will either melt or sneak through the strainer. Theoretically, you still get the same amount of alcohol in the drink, as all of the liquid from the mixing cup should get poured into the glass, but the volume of a shaken drink will be higher, therefore contain less alcohol per sip. Very smart for a spy, as he is sounding sophisticated ordering it, except to bartenders, and keeps himself from getting drunk as quickly. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.218.118.20 (talk) 22:39, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

"In popular culture"

This is a pop-culture article, so this subheading title doesn't really mean anything. Anyway, let's please not add another droll list of trivial mentions in genre television shows. —Michael Z. 2006-08-11 06:19 Z

I kind of intended that to be more of it's cultural impact, not a list, which is what it's turning into. That section needs to be rewritten and probably retitled. K1Bond007 17:08, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

What exactly is the purpose of the 'In popular culture' section? Of course, the Mucha Lucha article for example, should link here, but why vice versa? 65.27.238.60 16:17, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Most of this section should be deleted, per WP:TRIVIA. —Michael Z. 2007-08-02 22:55 Z

Done! Most of the items were completely non-notable. I turned three of them into footnotes for a single sentence, which simply states what the whole trivial list was meant to convey. —Michael Z. 2007-08-02 23:27 Z

First appearance

'A dry martini,' he said. 'One. In a deep champagne goblet.'

'Oui, monsieur.'
'Just a moment. Three measures of Gordon's, one of vodka, half a measure of Kina Lillet. Shake it very well until it's ice-cold, then add a large thin slice of lemon peel. Got it?'
'Certainly monsieur.' The barman seemed pleased with the idea.
'Gosh, that's certainly a drink,' said Leiter.

Bond laughed. 'When I'm...er...concentrating,' he explained, 'I never have more than one drink before dinner. But I do like that one to be large and very strong and very cold, and very well-made. I hate small portions of anything, particularly when they taste bad. This drink's my own invention. I'm going to patent it when I think of a good name.'

— Casino Royale, Chapter 7: Rouge et Noir

The exact words "shaken, not stirred" do not appear in the above snippet. It is, however, clear that Bond wanted the barman to shake the drink. JIP | Talk 12:47, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

I haven't read the book, but in the movie, wasn't there a scene where the bartender asked him "shaken or stirred" and Bond replied with something smart like "I don't care how it's done."???

References

Removed repetition

I removed the following from the section "Why shaken, not stirred".

*In the 2006 film Casino Royale, a bartender asks Bond if he would like his martini shaken or stirred, to which Bond replies "do I look like I give a damn?"

It repeats the dialogue presented in the intro paragraph. --Pavithran 18:12, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

This shouldn't be in the intro anyway. I moved it into "Preparation." This section should probably be renamed. Perhaps "History" or something like that since it is more or less an overview of Bond's history with shaking his martini. K1Bond007 06:28, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

I removed text from the section "Why shaken, not stirred", as it is factually incorrect; the martini that Bond orders with "Do I look like I give a damn" comes after losing his initial buy-in. The poisoned drink is a Vesper, which comes a few scenes later. It is poisoned by Le Chiffre's blonde associate at the bar, after Felix stakes Bond with his $5 million rebuy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.127.79.6 (talk) 07:19, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Cultural references

Since first being muttered by James Bond in the 1964 film, Goldfinger, "shaken, not stirred" has become a catchphrase in western popular culture.

• In the third season of the TV series The West Wing an episode is titled "Stirred" and President Josiah Bartlet insists that the preparation makes for a weak libation, saying, "James is ordering a weak martini and being snooty about it."
• In the Star Trek: Deep Space Nine episode "Badda-Bing Badda Bang," Doctor Julian Bashir orders a vodka martini "stirred, not shaken."

• In one scene in the videogame Super Mario RPG, Toad states that he is "shaken, but not stirred."

• Fictional janitor and galactic hero Roger Wilco of the Space Quest computer game series, created by Sierra, orders a martini "Hacked and whipped, not shaken or stirred like those sissy drinks". at a bar on Polysorbate LX in Space Quest 6.

• Country music artist Phil Vassar's third album was titled Shaken Not Stirred. In one song on the album, "Here to Forget", there is a line "I dig these dirty martinis, and I like them shaken not stirred, I come here every evening, just to get my mind off of her."

• In The Santa Clause an elf brings Santa a hot chocolate shaken, not stirred.

• The third episode of Blackadder the Third, "Nob and Nobility," includes the famous line in an exchange of dialogue between Edmund Blackadder (Rowan Atkinson) and Lord Topper (Tim McInnerny):

Edmund: But perhaps before Lord Topper starts to talk, he might like a glass of wine. He's looking a little shaken.

Topper: Shaken, but not stirred.

• In Short Circuit, the character Dr. Marner has a drink prepared by the robot, Number Two, and responds with "Mmm, just the way I like it. Shaken, but not stirred."

I'm posting this here, just for posterity. I'm editing down the section significantly. -- Zanimum 15:47, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Play on Words Mention in the Article?

• It seems clear that Ian Flemming introduced the now famous line as a valuable metaphor. Considering the nature of the tight spots Bond fell into, he was sure to be shaken but maintains an unstirred demeanor. Unnerving to any villain. Remembering this Bond trait has brought many mere mortals through impossible situations with grace, including myself.

I agree with this one. This is what I always interpreted it as, can anyone source it? 69.119.13.218 14:26, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

• Should the play on words be mentioned in the article? Afterall, the quote is #90 on AFI's top 100 movie quotes... is it possible that it was the play on words which made the quote so well liked, with many people getting the metaphor/joke subconsciously!? Synesthetic (talk) 10:23, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Now I had never considered the 'martini quote' as a 'valuable metaphor'. Interesting. Certainly that is the way others seem to be using it. Perhaps because I read more Sci Fi the 'Bene Gesserit' (Dune) "litany against fear" has more meaning to me.

May have been an apt saying for 9/11 "The country is shaken, but stirred into action" (I'm not American, apologies if this offends)

--220.101.28.25 (talk) 03:53, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

I also don't know what a valuable metaphor is (and one surmises it would be invaluable at the same time). But any native speaker will be aware that both shaken and stirred can also apply to people, and especially people in Bond's (rather unpleasant) line of work, and of course this includes Fleming (writers generally tend to know what they are up to). However, any native speaker will also recognise the line as a throwaway quip; if it really was supposed to mean much more, it should by rights have been "stirred, not shaken." 2A01:CB0C:CD:D800:3453:7AF8:7F0:AFDF (talk) 15:48, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

Fusel oil

That section on fusel oil makes no sense at all. It should be removed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.111.197.7 (talk) 12:55, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

I agree; it smells of OR. I'll take it out. Carl.bunderson (talk) 23:56, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Roger Moore

The article states "Ironically, while playing Bond, Moore never ordered one, although he received one in The Spy Who Loved Me"

and also states that "Roger Moore's Bond has barely ordered more than three, although he has received one in the 1977 film The Spy Who Loved Me."

So, did he order 0 or order 3? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Spartacus007 (talk • contribs) 17:56, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Sake

In the "Other Drinking Habits", it ought to be mentioned that Bond drinks Sake in You Only Live Twice, and commends his Japanese host for serving it at the proper (heated) temperature. My understanding, however, is that fine Sake is actually served cold. --12.32.87.3 (talk) 19:30, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

vodka martini and the element of surprise.

I did some own research that I would like to share.

It is true that vodka's and martini have different density, different specific weight and show some degree of immiscibility when mixed in a proper way.

clouds of one liquid into the other when properly mixed can give an element of surprise. you'll never know what's next when having some properly shaken vodka martini. Would it be martini's dominant sweetness, or vodka would punch your tongue hard?

just my 2c. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.167.13.156 (talk) 00:46, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Bond the beer-drinker

Apparently the Telegraph reported some fallacious information from a previous version of this article stating that Bond drank a Heineken: ...he has slummed it and drunk beer before. Heineken was his choice in Goldfinger."

This is apparently an issue as fandom is in an uproar:

• http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/04/06/shaken-up-james-bond-will-swig-a-heineken-instead-of-a-martini-in-skyfall/
• http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/compost/post/bond-heineken-im-shaken-and-stirred/2012/04/04/gIQA4HtkvS_blog.html
• http://news.sky.com/home/showbiz-news/article/16203193
• http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/features/james-bond-ditches-vodka-martinis-for-heineken-7615415.html

And so on. However, I did a search in Goldfinger via Amazon. No Heineken. And I dug a little further. Apparently it's a Löwenbräu. From: http://brookstonbeerbulletin.com/james-bonds-beer/ (this info might be good to mix in):

• In Diamonds Are Forever, Fleming’s fourth Bond novel, 007 takes Bill Tanner to lunch at Scotts where he orders a Black Velvet, which is a mixed pint of champagne and Guinness.
• Later in the same novel, while driving to Saratoga with C.I.A. compatriot Felix Leiter, they stop at roadside greasy spoon called “Chicken in a Basket” where Leiter and Bond have Miller High Life with their lunch.
• In Goldfinger, the seventh novel, while chasing the villian through Europe, Bond washed down his lunch at Geneva’s Bavaria brasserie with Löwenbräu beer.
• In The Hildebrand Rarity, one of the short stories in the collection published under the title For Your Eyes Only, after circling an island in a boat Bond stops for a chicken salad sandwich and a “cold beer” from a cooler. This story first appeared in Playboy magazine in 1960.
• In On Her Majesty’s Secret Service, the 11th novel (excluding the short stories), Bond has four steins of Franziskaner at the Franziskaner Keller with his taxi driver to celebrate his engagement to Tracy. It is in effect his bachelor party and when he’s reunited with his fiancee, she accuses him of smelling “like a pig of beer and sausages.”
• In The Man With the Golden Gun, Fleming’s 13th novel, while searching for Scaramanga, Bond orders a Red Stripe in the Dreamland Cafe and has two more before he leaves.
• In The Living Daylights, part of a second short story collection, this one published under the title Octopussy and the Living Daylights, Bond has a lunch of salted herring and two draft Löwenbräus.

When this sentence was added, "In Goldfinger, he favours Heineken," no citation was given. So I have removed it.

TuckerResearch (talk) 02:36, 7 April 2012 (UTC)

3.2 Wines

The reason for the "citation needed" tag is not clear. Please clarify or remove.

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Video suggestion

Do we have any videos showing a martini being made both ways? If not, we should make one to illustrate this article, which currently doesn't have any illustrations. Daniel Case (talk) 00:24, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

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Bon bois

I re-worked the Bon bois quote a bit. It talked about Fins Bois, but that's not in the cited source or any other source I checked, and I don't believe it's correct. Fins bois and Bon bois are two different things; see Cognac.

I used a different source, a book that seems more reliable than the web page that had been cited, and adjusted the quote and links appropriately. Kendall-K1 (talk) 15:43, 31 January 2018 (UTC)

Kina Lillet

It strikes me that the text in Sec. 1.1, Novels, regarding modern substitutions for the discontinued Kina Lillet, and apparently sourced to a specific London bartender, is outside the scope of the article. It might be nice to know how to make a drink, with current ingredients, similar to the ones Bond drank in the novels, but Wikipedia is not a recipe book. Spike-from-NH (talk) 23:58, 1 October 2019 (UTC)

Bolinger

Bond prefers the '69 vintage although that may just have been a quip (Moonraker). 2A01:CB0C:CD:D800:3453:7AF8:7F0:AFDF (talk) 15:39, 8 June 2021 (UTC)