Talk:Sex (book)/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: TonyTheTiger (talk · contribs) 16:16, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

• I'll review this.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 16:16, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

• According to the toolbox to the right, there are no disambiguation link issues, but there is one external link that needs to be fixed.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 14:44, 25 May 2013 (UTC)
  • This is addressed.
• Please convert all $ figures that are more than 10 years old to current day dollars. See Bobby Orr or Fountain of Time for examples of conversions.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 19:55, 2 June 2013 (UTC)
  • All done.

WP:LEAD

• It should not take until the third paragraph to find out when the book was released.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 14:44, 25 May 2013 (UTC)
• Due to the scandal (What scandal? You have not mentioned this before).--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 14:44, 25 May 2013 (UTC)
• accompaniment? BOGO?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 14:44, 25 May 2013 (UTC)
  • Since you did not really clear this up here, I will assume it is explained in the main body below.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 19:39, 9 June 2013 (UTC)
    • Actually what do you mean by BOGO? —Indian:BIO · ^{[ ChitChat ]} 16:06, 16 June 2013 (UTC)
      • Buy one, get one.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 22:28, 16 June 2013 (UTC)
• " it was a commercial success" - Was it ever on any notable bestseller lists?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 14:44, 25 May 2013 (UTC)
• "which feature adult content" -> that feature adult content--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 14:45, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

Background and development

• "However, she never got back in touch with Regan" (DeMann is male).--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 05:25, 26 May 2013 (UTC)
• but according to Benatar comma--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 05:25, 26 May 2013 (UTC)
• executive directives?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 05:25, 26 May 2013 (UTC)
• "only a handful made the final cut" - Do we have a count of the number of photos in the book?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 05:25, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

• • Hey Tony, I will start answering your queries once you are done with the whole review. Does that sound fine? :) —Indian:BIO · ^{[ ChitChat ]} 15:06, 26 May 2013 (UTC)
    • Either way.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 17:45, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

Design and content

• PET is a pretty uncommon abbreviation. I would spell it out and put (PET) in parenthesis, unless you feel all the readers will know what it is.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 17:45, 28 May 2013 (UTC)
• The cover seems to have the word "Madonna" on it, but you only seem to mention the image of Madonna. I.E., it says "Madonna Sex" not just sex.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 17:45, 28 May 2013 (UTC)
• "1.5 million pound" needs to be plural and have a metric conversion.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 17:45, 28 May 2013 (UTC)
• "Madonna herself is featured partially naked (topless) or completely naked." It seems like or should be and.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 17:45, 28 May 2013 (UTC)
• According to the singer, her "pussy"... is this stuff written as Dita?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 17:45, 28 May 2013 (UTC)
• The singer also states that: "ass fucking is the most pleasurable ... Dita?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 17:45, 28 May 2013 (UTC)
• In Sex Madonna also points out... Prior to this you did not say these things were in the book.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 17:45, 28 May 2013 (UTC)
  • I corrected the PET stuff to how you advised, but the whole cover with the "Madonna Sex" thing, I checked the sources and they all mention the cover having only the word "Sex" stamped in the middle so I think the way that's written is appropriate , and also what do you mean about the whole "pussy" stuff being written as "Dita"??--LuxiromChick (talk) 23:07, 28 May 2013 (UTC)
    • • Judging from File:Sexbook madonna1.jpg there is some confusion on the cover and the wrapper. The main image needs to clarify this with a caption.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 20:23, 2 June 2013 (UTC)
    • Tony, yes I agree with Luxirom that only the word "SEX" was present on the cover, not Madonna anywhere (seeing she wrote it as Dita). On the contrary, Luxirom, what Tony wants to clarify is that those lines we have added from the book, about the pussy and all, where they written by Madonna or as Dita? Tony, my take is that Madonna took on the persona of Dita and wrote those lines (sources say so). Can I ask your suggestion as to how the sentence construction can be done in this case? —Indian:BIO · ^{[ ChitChat ]} 04:21, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

You say she "uses the pseudonym 'Mistress Dita'", then you say Madonna said X and Madonna said Y. Should we be discussiong Mistress Dita saying X and Y like we were talking about a fictional character?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 19:59, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

• "She also uses the pseudonym "Mistress Dita" as a homage to German actress Dita Parlo;..." s/b either "Throughout the book or At times in the book, she uses the pseudonym "Mistress Dita" as a homage to German actress Dita Parlo..."--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 20:05, 9 June 2013 (UTC)
• You say Madonna as Dita here and there. If this is her character throughout the book you should just say Dita says or does this and that. The way you currently have it makes it seems like sometimes in the book she writes as Madonna and other times as Dita.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 20:09, 9 June 2013 (UTC)
  • Ok I get this change. Thanks for clarifying. —Indian:BIO · ^{[ ChitChat ]} 16:06, 16 June 2013 (UTC)

Release and promotion

• Controversy="cavorting outdoors with a dog"?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 17:11, 31 May 2013 (UTC)
  • Suggestion of bestiality, of course caused uproar. —Indian:BIO · ^{[ ChitChat ]} 16:06, 16 June 2013 (UTC)
• You should better explain the controversy: E.g., Mr. X said "These books should be burned". Minister said "You will burn in hell if you buy this" So and so Said "This book is morally depraved" or whatever. Please demonstrate the controversy with examples.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 17:15, 31 May 2013 (UTC)
• Does "Truly Twisted" have a special meaning?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 17:11, 31 May 2013 (UTC)
  • I am trying to understand why this is capitalized.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 20:28, 9 June 2013 (UTC)
    • Truly speaking, I don't know why it is capitalized. :( —Indian:BIO · ^{[ ChitChat ]} 16:06, 16 June 2013 (UTC)
• Rm "Eight days later,"--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 17:11, 31 May 2013 (UTC)
• "break records regarding reserved copies" Please elaborate.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 17:11, 31 May 2013 (UTC)
  • Changed it to pre-ordered copies, and before you ask, the previous record number is not known. —Indian:BIO · ^{[ ChitChat ]} 16:06, 16 June 2013 (UTC)
    • I don't see the change--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 23:14, 16 June 2013 (UTC)
      • Eh? It is there. :O "Nevertheless, the book managed to break records regarding pre-ordered copies". —Indian:BIO · ^{[ ChitChat ]} 10:04, 21 June 2013 (UTC)
        • I still don't know what record was broken. How many ordered? What type of record?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 04:41, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
• "the price of the book ranged at about fifty dollars" seems vague. Shouldn't this be something like, the (suggested) retail price was $69, but many booksellers sold this at a 20% discount as a best seller.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 17:11, 31 May 2013 (UTC)
  • This still needs current dollar conversion.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 19:03, 11 June 2013 (UTC)
    • This was done. —Indian:BIO · ^{[ ChitChat ]} 10:04, 21 June 2013 (UTC)
      • That is why it was struck.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 04:43, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
• "average art book ranges between 5 and 10,000 units" by now the reader has forgotten this book's print run.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 17:11, 31 May 2013 (UTC)
  • Tweaked the sentences to bring them closer. Now its fine. —Indian:BIO · ^{[ ChitChat ]} 16:06, 16 June 2013 (UTC)
    • I don't see this.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 23:22, 16 June 2013 (UTC)
      • Again, "With an initial print run of one million copies of the first edition in five continents and in five languages,[47] the price of the book was $50 ($82 in 2013 dollars[39]) at retail, making sex an "expensive visual book".[43][46] Nicholas Callaway pointed out that the book was an unprecedented hit, because the print run of an average art book ranges between 5 and 10,000 units." —Indian:BIO · ^{[ ChitChat ]} 10:04, 21 June 2013 (UTC)

Critical and commercial reception

• This section is quite good. We just need similar type commentary for the controversy before release in the prior section.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 17:23, 31 May 2013 (UTC)
• In just three days comma--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 17:23, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

Social impact and aftermath

• Dubbed at the time "The Queen of obscene" is currently modifying the closest noun, the Sex era, rather than Madonna.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 15:24, 1 June 2013 (UTC)
• "The releases of her sexually explicit film, album and book, and the aggressive appearance on Letterman all made critics question Madonna as a sexual renegade." These seem to support her case as a renegade.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 15:24, 1 June 2013 (UTC)
  • Yes, it did, and that's what was questioned. Isn't it clear? —Indian:BIO · ^{[ ChitChat ]} 16:06, 16 June 2013 (UTC)
    • Rather than question, I might use a verb like regard or consider.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 14:57, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
• "Ever since its release, the" -> Later--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 15:24, 1 June 2013 (UTC)
  • I don't think "Ever since its release," is necessary--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 19:15, 11 June 2013 (UTC)
    • Agreed and removed. —Indian:BIO · ^{[ ChitChat ]} 16:06, 16 June 2013 (UTC)
• Please date the later reviews.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 15:24, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

Thanks Tony, will you please check the question I asked above regarding the "Dita" thing? —Indian:BIO · ^{[ ChitChat ]} 16:38, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

Legacy

• "used a stunt butt." as a body double.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 20:09, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

Images

• File:EroticaGirlieShowUnderGround sh.jpg does not indicate whether the image is of Madonna or one of her dancers.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 20:19, 2 June 2013 (UTC)
• If the above image is of Madonna it needs {{personality rights}} as does File:NaomiCampbell.jpg.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 20:19, 2 June 2013 (UTC)
• Doubt File:Sexbook madonna1.jpg is fully in the public domain. It contains the wrapper cover which needs a FUR. I believe the image needs to be relicensed.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 20:23, 2 June 2013 (UTC)
• None of the WP:CAPTIONs have periods to indicate the end of complete sentences. Several captions are complete sentences.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 20:26, 2 June 2013 (UTC)
• See comment regarding captioning main image made above.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 20:26, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

I have placed this article On Hold. I will monitor progress and reevaluate within seven days.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 20:28, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

Thanks Tony for the wonderful review. I'm onto it for making the changes. —Indian:BIO · ^{[ ChitChat ]} 10:53, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

Everything has been answered. —Indian:BIO · ^{[ ChitChat ]} 06:57, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Hi Tony, I'm going out-of-town for 2 days, please be patient as I will respond to your queries after two days. Thanks. —Indian:BIO · ^{[ ChitChat ]} 14:16, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

What is going on here?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 17:50, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

Have returned. Going through your left over points. —Indian:BIO · ^{[ ChitChat ]} 18:14, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

Did I miss anything else? —Indian:BIO · ^{[ ChitChat ]} 16:06, 16 June 2013 (UTC)

(→) What more to be done? —Indian:BIO · ^{[ ChitChat ]} 10:04, 21 June 2013 (UTC)

• Explain whether accompaniment is BOGO?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 04:49, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
• "number of photos" issue--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 04:49, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
  • What about this one.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 03:41, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
    • What about this one? Are you talking about the stolen picture number or what? Be specific, because the exact number of stolen photos are not givven anywhere but all of them were recovered. —Indian:BIO · ^{[ ChitChat ]} 06:19, 16 July 2013 (UTC)
• I don't understand "Truly Twisted" being capitalized--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 04:49, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
  • I am going to let this go as some sort of stylization.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 03:40, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
• Pre-ordered copy records--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 04:49, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
  • It would really help the reader if you said explicitly how many were pre ordered and clarified if this was a record for all books ever pre-sold or for sex books, or for photo books, or for books about musicians, etc. Broke a record is still a mystery.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 03:11, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
    • This has been exxplained. "With an initial print run of one million copies of the first edition in five continents and in five languages, the price of the book was $50 ($109 in 2024 dollars) at retail, making sex an "expensive visual book". Nevertheless, the book managed to break records regarding the number of copies pre-ordered before the release. Nicholas Callaway pointed out that the book was an unprecedented hit, because the print run of an average art book ranges between 5 and 10,000 units. He described it as "the largest initial release of any illustrated book in publishing history"." Plese point out if you think the sentence arrangement is not okay, but saying that the information is not there is incorrect. —Indian:BIO · ^{[ ChitChat ]} 06:19, 16 July 2013 (UTC)
      • Not totally satisfied, but this is just for GA. It's O.K.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 18:35, 16 July 2013 (UTC)
• Still take issue with "critics question Madonna..."--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 04:49, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
  • Still would prefer regard or consider as suggested above. Relegate is used ungrammatically. I believe relegate needs the word "to". You relegate something to a status. You don't relegate something as. Either change the sentence, including changing "as" to "to" or change the verb.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 03:26, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
    • Yep, this I agree with, regard is a better verb. —Indian:BIO · ^{[ ChitChat ]} 06:19, 16 July 2013 (UTC)
• Fix WP:CAPTIONs. (regarding use of period)--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 04:49, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
  • You misunderstood. If it is a full sentence, it needs a period and if it is not, it should not have one. I did not mean to remove all periods.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 03:26, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
  • Oh God, I did not notice that you had left comments! I'm so so sorry. I will get right to them. Please I apologize again. :( —Indian:BIO · ^{[ ChitChat ]} 03:39, 5 July 2013 (UTC)
    • I have answered these, although I seriously don't know why you cannot grasp the fact about the "pre-ordered" copies. —Indian:BIO · ^{[ ChitChat ]} 04:30, 10 July 2013 (UTC)

Again, replied all. Can we wrap it up now? —Indian:BIO · ^{[ ChitChat ]} 06:19, 16 July 2013 (UTC)

• As stated above, you have to determine which WP:CAPTIONs are complete sentence. Those that are should end with a period. Those captions that are just phrases should not end with a period. This is probably the only remaining actionable issue for this nomination.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 18:41, 16 July 2013 (UTC)
  • Please re-check. —Indian:BIO · ^{[ ChitChat ]} 13:45, 17 July 2013 (UTC)
    • In some cases, you have two phrases one of which is a full sentence, while the other is not. But in those cases, you still treat both as full sentences.

      Madonna performing during The Girlie Show World Tour in 1993

      The Mylar sheet wrapped cover of Sex, showing Madonna's face--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 01:31, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

      • What to do in those cases? Please help. —Indian:BIO · ^{[ ChitChat ]} 06:36, 25 July 2013 (UTC)
        • Reorganize the content so that you are not forcing yourself to place a period at the conclusion of a phrase that is not a full sentence.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 00:53, 26 July 2013 (UTC)

Did it. Can you please recheck? —Indian:BIO · ^{[ ChitChat ]} 05:58, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

• I am now going to PASS the article. Thank you for your patience and hard work.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 10:50, 27 July 2013 (UTC)