Talk:Severn Valley (Cthulhu Mythos)

Move Request

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was move. —Nightstallion (?) ^{Seen this already?} 08:32, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Requested move

Severn valley → Severn Valley – Move back to "Severn Valley". Capitalized version is more appropriate since this is a place name.
-,-~^R'lyehRising~-,- 04:24, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
Removed old request to avoid clutter. RlyehRising 04:24, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

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Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one-sentence explanation, then sign your opinion with ~~~~

• Support. See below. Nareek 05:01, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
• Support. Looks better, and it's what people are more likely to type in. Ljmh 04:09, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Discussion

Add any additional comments

Yeah, I now think Severn Valley is the way to go. Sorry to be so wishy-washy. Nareek 23:29, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Old discussion

Move back to Severn Valley. I had too much on my plate when I first moved this. Upon reflection, it might be better to leave things as they are and use the Severn (disambiguation) page as the primary means for disambiguating.
-,-~^R'lyehRising~-,- 01:13, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
—Withdrawn by nominator.
-,-~^R'lyehRising~-,- 23:19, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

I'm thinking that the article should be at "Severn valley" rather than "Severn Valley", since that seems to be both Campbell's preference and WP style. Nareek 16:22, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

• That would probably work. Since no one has objected, I think I'll withdraw my nomination and make the move myself (since it is an unobstructed move).
  -,-~^R'lyehRising~-,- 23:19, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

—Moved to "Severn valley".
-,-~^R'lyehRising~-,- 23:21, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Hudson Valley, Thames Valley, Great Rift Valley : we capitalize all titles, both in English and in Wikipedish. Why is there hesitation? --Wetman 09:28, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Checking the WP:MOS, I find that WP has less of a prejudice against capital letters than I remembered. Still, there is this: "If you are not sure whether a region has attained proper-noun status, assume it has not"--meaning use a lower-case letter. Since Campbell himself refers to the "Severn valley", that's a pretty good indication that he doesn't think of it as a proper noun.

I don't have a big investment in it either way--my personal inclination would be "Severn Valley", actually. But mainly I want to do it the WP way. Nareek 16:04, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

The A38

Just thought I'd mention that the A38 is a normal "A" road. It runs between Gloucester and Bristol (and beyond). The newer M5 motorway runs more or less parallel.

Hope the above is of assistance.

Regards

Linden

Note the existence of the A38 road article. The A38 is the longest road in England. Around the Severn Estuary real-world location that the Severn Valley (Cthulhu Mythos) is based on, it is known as the Bristol Road or Bristol Street. For the most part it is now superceeded by the M5 motorway in the real world. However we should not blur the distinction between the fictional A38 and the real-world road. Andrew Oakley 22:57, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Doesn't alter the fact that it's erroneous to refer to the A38 as a motorway

Linden

Move/Rename to Severn Valley (Cthulhu Mythos)

I'm from the "real world" Severn Valley, that is the area between Bridgnorth in Shropshire and Bewdley in Worcestershire, England UK, through which the River Severn flows south of Ironbridge Gorge.

The phrase "Severn Valley" is a common term to describe this geographic area.

Indeed it is,and it could be argued the valley extends all the way down from Shropshire to the Severn Estuary. In the the context of Campbell's fiction though the term applies to the area south of Gloucester.

Linden

I am also a HP Lovecraft fan, and player of the Cthulhu Live RPG.

A number of other "real world" articles are erroneously linking here, including:

• Cotswolds - a region to the south of the Severn Valley
• Gloucester cattle - cows farmed along and south of the Severn Valley
• Oldbury Wells School - a high school in Bridgnorth

I think it unfair to expect a fictional location to be the default article in Wikipedia, when a real-world location of the same name exists, especially when the fictional and real-world locations differ so much.

Therefore I am asking for opinions. Please add a comment and say either:

• Keep
• Separate - create two articles; Severn Valley (England) and Severn Valley (Cthulhu Mythos), then have the main Severn Valley article as a disambiguation page
• Move - move this article to Severn Valley (Cthulhu Mythos) and place the real-world (England) article here, with a "See Also: Severn Valley (Cthulhu Mythos)" box-out at the top.

My vote is: Move
Andrew Oakley 13:31, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

I don't see any reason to conduct a vote: this seems like a no-brainer move to me. I shall do it as a first stage with a dab page at Severn Valley, discussion on whether to have the real location there or a dab page there is another matter. Morwen - Talk 15:59, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, Morwen. As a Lovecraft enthusiast myself, yet with a vested interest in my own real-world heritage, I just wanted to stand back a little and be as polite as possible, to avoid stirring up controversey in what I know to be a well-educated fanbase. I'm quite happy with the dab page for the moment. Thanks again. Andrew Oakley 16:18, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

While I don't object to a move in principle, I think more than three hours could be allowed for discussion. Is Severn Valley (Cthulhu Mythos) really the ideal name for this page? Severn Valley (fiction) and Severn Valley (Ramsey Campbell) are two obvious alternatives. 17:04, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

I have no objections to any naming provided the distinction between the real-world and Lovecraftian location is clear, and (optionally, ideally) the real-world article has a clearly implied precidence. I chose (Cthulhu Mythos) because it seemed to fit better into the existing Category:Cthulhu Mythos locations. Andrew Oakley 22:50, 22 September 2006 (UTC)