Talk:Seven virtues/Archive 1

Untitled

What is the purpose of this page's popular culture section? At best the video game makes a passing reference to the seven virtues, and even then it is in a way that is entirely irrelevant to the virtues themselves. It seems entirely extraneous. This is, after all, an encyclopedia of useful knowledge.198.7.241.77 (talk) 22:20, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

I support this. At best, the article of these games could link here, but otherwise it's just Trivia and should be removed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.226.169.178 (talk) 09:40, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

Can someone tell me why "desert" is included in the description of justice? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.230.124.137 (talk) 04:21, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

- The "desserts" part of the Justice definition appears to be a joke. Unless someone can explain its relevance, I would like to remove it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.166.50.205 (talk) 23:59, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

I've been trying to figure out for awhile now... who decided what the virtues were? I mean, they don't seemed based on scripture. What with 'do not lie' existing, but honesty or truth not being in the virtues, I'm left oddly put off by them. Why was this done? --Starfyredragon (talk) 23:17, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Older

what the hell does meekness mean? **PERSONAL ATTACK REMOVED**

it means that you don't generally go out and act violent and don't try to get into fights (ever heard the expression "meek as a mouse"?)

Also, "The Meek shall inherit the Earth." Hossenfeffer 09:14, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

- hurray thanks for the info... now what the hell is an expression (haha jk)

- Meekness refers to submission to the will of God (nothing to do with being small or helpless). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.110.232.181 (talk) 17:23, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

---

Should "Chastity" really mean courage? I'm no latin scholar, but I've always assumed it meant "asbtention from sexual intercourse; purity", especially since it's the opposite of lust. The opposite of lust isn't COURAGE, it's purity and thinking unsexy thoughts -Alecmconroy 04:35, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

That's what I was thinking - and, in fact, the whole reason I came to the talk page. Is there any collaborating evidence or citations which suggest Chastity = courage? Or can we assume the original author wrote the wrong word down? Hossenfeffer 09:14, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

LOL, unsexy thoughts. Morhange 22:30, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

---

Does the seven virtues have associated animals or colors like the seven deadly sins do?

Fixed the "selflessness" link

It previously pointed to a music album, and I couldn't find anything else but a redirect to altruism, so I pointed it at the redirect. The link was in the humility listing of the Virtues section.

-- Last Thylacine 15:28, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Seven Virtues vs Seven Heavenly Virtues

What's the difference between the Seven Virtues and the Seven Heavenly Virtues? I thought they were the same thing? Unknown Dragon 00:14, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

It looks like they are the same thing. I suggest merger. SpectrumDT 21:55, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

-- User:mephesto000

The Seven Virtues and the Seven Heavenly Virtues are the same thing. The article Seven Heavenly Virtues is simply a brief description of the same material covered more in depth within Seven Virtues

Agree, they're duplicate pages. 68.39.174.238 00:53, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 04:27, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Merger Proposal

(Copied over from Talk:Seven_Virtues, for the history see [1].)

Eight Virtues seems to be a poor copy of this page, with just one more virtue. You should totally just add a subsection here showing the Eighth Virtue, and delete the Eight Virtue page. (Oh yeah, and this is actually vandalism or something so just revert all my changes plxthx.

I agree —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.67.5.224 (talk) 21:02, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

There is a huge overlap, merger is the only option. 220.245.159.95 (talk) 05:32, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I think too that it sholud be merged. --151.74.143.102 (talk) 14:16, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

I agree. Str1977 ^(talk) 09:45, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

... and implemented it. Str1977 ^(talk) 10:05, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Angels?

In the article for the seven deadly sins, they mention how each sin is personified by a demon. Are the seven heavenly virtues personified by angels or saints? —Preceding unsigned comment added by AgentAJD (talk • contribs) 09:57, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Ahimsa

Wrong. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.90.211.59 (talk) 05:42, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Accuracy

This entire article seems to me to be a complete mess. For a start, the immediate origin of the four cardinal virtues is not Greek philosophy - it is Wisd. chapter 4 verse 8. Certainly the authors of the 'Wisdom Of Solomon' got many ideas from Greek philosophy, but there are no grounds for naming specific philosophers - or does anyone know different? Then there is complete confusion between the various lists of virtues; (e.g. justice vanishes, 'industry' (Really???) appears from nowhere, etc) and the definitions seem to be random words dumped from a bad thesaurus. Finally, the definition of 'virtue' is rubbish: a virtue is not an 'excellence' but 'a source of power' - (in Classical Latin use, especially courage). It is a causative form from the root of 'vis' - force and 'vita' - life. The translation as 'excellence' is probably because Victorian scholars often used it as a translation of the Greek 'arete' - a mistranslation, rather. (And despite modern feminist claims to the contrary, it has nothing whatever to do with 'vir' - male adult.) Can we get someone who knows what they are talking about to do a complete rewrite, please? OldTownAdge (talk) 14:54, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

===Uh, almost everything you claim is false. Wisdom 4:8 does not mention the cardinal virtues; A 'virtue' is both an 'excellent' and a 'source of power' - along with other connotations; The translation of 'arete' as 'virtus' goes back to antiquity, far before Victorian times; Your etymology is false (and the accepted etymology has nothing to do with feminism; Aquinas makes the same claim). You, apparently, have some weird axe to grind, but no reason to edit the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.245.230.31 (talk) 13:21, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

The previous citation of Wisdom is correct, but it is 8:7, not 4:8. See the Catechism of the Catholic Church section 1805. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.18.147.208 (talk) 21:34, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

Zero-Sum

I don't know whose brilliant idea it was to include "zero-sum" anywhere in the descriptions of virtues (inserted as if weaseled in because the way it appeared was nonsensical, i.e., as a noun with no reference to how it relates to anything). The very idea of zero-sums is antithetical to charity and the virtues are supposed to be consistent and taken together. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.193.28.246 (talk) 17:28, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

Disagreement within article

Why does the intro paragraph list the virtues as Faith, Hope Charity, Prudence, Justice, and Temperance, while the table somehow replaces Justice with Chastity, and equates Temperance with a sense of justice? This seems rather a bit off. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.130.210.39 (talk) 14:34, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

Dante

As someone who studied Dante, my first impression is that the article should have at least a few lines on his changes to the concept. I would try it myself, but my expertise is wanting. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73mmmm (talk • contribs) 05:27, 28 July 2016 (UTC)

OR?

This page was tagged in February 2013 for OR. I was wondering if this table is part of what was meant. If not, feel free to reinstate it.

(Mt 22,37)	mind	soul	heart
divine virtues	faith	hope	love
man	thoughts	wishes	feelings
philosophy	logic	aesthetics	ethics
ideal	truth	beauty	goodness
field	science	art	religion
(1 Jn 2:16) (Mt 4:1–11) temptations world sin	"pride of life" "spectacular throw" might success egoism	"lust of eyes" "kingdoms" wealth money materialism	"lust of body" "hunger" satisfaction pleasure hedonism
monastic vows	obedience humbleness serving	poverty sufficiency giving	purity mercy suffering
human virtues	prudence caution	temperance self-control	fortitude courage

Mannanan51 (talk) 04:21, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

References

Requested move 6 April 2017

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Not moved. Opposition is strong on this one that the title is correct and it does not talk about virtue ethics. (closed by non-admin page mover) -- Dane ^talk 03:37, 15 April 2017 (UTC)

---

Seven virtues → Catholic virtue ethics – Alternative name: Catholic ethics. Reason: much of the current article of the seven virtues has developed into an overview of Catholic ethics, or more specifically Catholic virtue ethics. However, naturally, another article regarding the seven virtues could also be kept by extracting parts of the content of the current article. Chicbyaccident (talk) 16:24, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

User:Chicbyaccident, would you be willing to create an article about Catholic virtue ethics instead? You could excise the parts from this current article that discuss that topic and leave the rest of the current Seven virtues article intact. I look forward to hearing your thoughts. Pax Christi, Anupam^Talk 16:58, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

If you excise the Catholic philosophical discussion of these seven virtues what do you have left? Mannanan51 (talk) 06:59, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

oppose -for now. (1) the title "Catholic virtue ethics" sounds both vague and cumbersome; and mirrors the recently renamed template, thus also potentially confusing. (2) As per the comment above "This entire article seems to me to be a complete mess." I would rather see it first cleaned up substantially, and then determine whether to rename or move depending upon what it then looks like. ...I'm not sure that large table is either helpful, or not OR. Mannanan51 (talk) 21:19, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

• Oppose because this article doesn't actually talk about virtue ethics. It talks about the virtues as topics. No discussion of modern virtue ethicists such as Alasdair MacIntyre or the academic side of this, only historical discussion of the ethics themselves. I don't think thats a bad thing. It'd just be a bit odd for the person who killed virtue ethics as a field for a few centuries (Kant) to be the most recent philosopher mentioned in an article about Catholic virtue ethics. I also think it'd be better to have them as different articles anyway. One discussing the virtues as topics, another discussing the philosophical school that is Catholic virtue ethics. TonyBallioni (talk) 14:17, 7 April 2017 (UTC)
• Oppose. The current title is correct for the article. Also per TonyBallioni. Srnec (talk) 16:02, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

---

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

punctuation

Punctuation throughout the entire document needs to be fixed