Talk:Sergiu Celibidache

Article needs (AUG/SEP2012)

a few brainstorm ideas and suggestions for article improvement (for myself and other editors):

• need sections on awards, discography.
• no infobox in keeping with the Classical Music project's style guidelines.
• discussion of legacy -- who uses his style/ideas today in performance?
• how to approach organizing biography (what section, what focus)??
• better sourcing.

--ColonelHenry (talk) 16:13, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

After taking a few minutes to look, a Celibidache discography section apparently is going to be huge. Might have to start a separate list article. I will include it within this article for the time being rather than start a new article (laziness, mostly), but I am open to suggestions and the views of others that would convince me to move it to a separate list down the road. Will add section on criticism/legacy of his work. May add a small section his own compositions (of which he didn't permit performances).--ColonelHenry (talk) 23:17, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

Thinking of moving the discography to a separate article (list), but make his discography and aversion to commercial recordings during his life (and bootlegs) as a subsection in "Legacy" and then put a subsection on documentaries.--ColonelHenry (talk) 16:26, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

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Revert wars

Please stop reverting backwards and forwards. The referred article is by Conant's husband, and refers to the misogynist harassment she experienced; alterations referring to supposed "feminist harassment" of the conductor are clearly mischievous. Myopic Bookworm (talk) 17:45, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

I agree with User:Myopic Bookworm. The statement about 'hysterical feminist bullying' is unencyclopaedic, and is not properly supported by any sources. It should be removed. William Avery (talk) 21:08, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

Note: take these editor's comments with more than a grain of salt, judged by the vandalism warnings on its page. Check every word for signs of possible deceitful behavior. I would like to point out that the three vandalism warnings on my page were added anonymously in quick succession immediately after I edited this entry. Myopic Bookworm (talk) 15:36, 8 June 2017 (UTC)

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Misleading introduction/vague thoughts of a general re-write?

Obviously a sensitive issue, but this:

"His later career was marred by controversy and accusations of sexism and discrimination that came to light during a 12-year legal battle that dominated his tenure at the Munich Philharmonic"

is - like it or not - inaccurate. Celibidache's tenure at Munich was the great triumph of his career (he was never so honoured by authority nor so popular with a public, and was able to use the prestige to lay certain professional and personal ghosts to rest) and implications to the contrary are misleading and therefore unencyclopedic. The dispute between Conant and the MPO certainly dominated her time at the orchestra, but not Celibidache's. Also misleading, come to think of it, is the suggestion that Celibidache was another other than extremely controversial before his time at Munich... or even that it was the biggest controversy while he was there (it was not: the man was quite the drama llama).

Searching through newspaper articles about Celibidache from the Munich years (and I have done so) reveals hardly a mention of the dispute with Conant, even in the American press (where his reputation was significantly lower than in Europe and where the default tone in music journalism was hostility towards him). It does not appear to have been mentioned in any English language obituary either. I'm not arguing here to remove all reference to the case (as, tellingly, is the situation on German Wikipedia), particularly as disputes between Celibidache and other musicians were a continued theme in his career (it was a factor in what happened in Berlin, while at Munich he even had an actual physical blacklist of people he would not work with, which eventually came to include musicians who were associated with particular agents he disliked!) and this one of the better documented instances, just to remove the misleading mention of it in the introduction. Which I will do in a day or so. Might add a mention of other controversies (i.e. harsh criticism of other conductors - this was a very well known habit of his when he was alive).

Longer term, though, a comprehensive re-write of the entire article would make sense? Celibidache was an important figure in 20th century cultural history and I think we can do better than what amounts to a brief (if solid) summary. We should definitely make more use of the images on the Commons. I'll put together a general outline/skeleton proposal later in the week.

DanielFeeld (talk) 23:12, 12 June 2018 (UTC)

I deleted that. A sockpuppet named User:ColonelHenry did it (see this) he is now banned from Wikipedia.

Abbie Conant

Are you kidding me? Abbie Conant has been scrubbed from this page? Why? valereee (talk) 18:20, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

Restored content removed by IP with no edit summary, per no objection here. valereee (talk) 16:06, 2 March 2019 (UTC)

Valereee, the Conant issue is discussed in two separate sections on this talk page. Although I had previously added the comment you just restored, it does seem there's a valid question about whether it really was a controversy that dominated his Munich tenure or ever received much attention during his lifetime. Oradium (talk) 17:48, 2 March 2019 (UTC)

Oradium, I don't think a huge deal has to be made of it, just think it has to be addressed. I'm not picky about the wording, I restored what had been there just because that was easiest, but I'm totally open to discussion of how to word the mention. valereee (talk) 18:54, 2 March 2019 (UTC)

Again - the well-documented and referenced crontroversy on Abbie Conant needs to be included in order to include all significant viewpoints (which this is!) (User:tom kearsey) (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 14:49, 30 September 2020 (UTC)