Talk:Secretarybird/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: The Rambling Man (talk · contribs) 10:14, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

Comments

• "mostly terrestrial" this made me smile. I think I understand this is intended to mean "ground-borne" but it kind of got me thinking about extra-terrestrial secretarybirds too...
• I'm interested as to why this isn't at "Secretary bird", it seems to be far more common to have the space. Indeed, I've been lucky enough to see these and read about them and today was the first time I noticed that the unspaced variant was acceptable, nay even the "common" name...

I admit I was surprised by your ngram result. My preference is to follow the IOC in all cases as this avoids lots of time consuming argument. For interest I checked the other world lists. The Handbook of Birds of the World and the Clements checklist both use secretarybird but the fourth edition of Howard and Moore uses secretary-bird. - Aa77zz (talk) 16:25, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

But we regularly digress from the IOC on capitalisation, don't we? The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 16:41, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

Their rules which we explicitly ignore for their example i.e. yellow-throated warbler... The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 16:48, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

Well, as you may remember, we had a rather heated discussion in 2014, where the bird editors (almost all of whom favoured capitalisation) were outvoted by the editing community at large. So it was democracy I guess... Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:18, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

• " diurnal raptors" bit sea of blue here, I was literally expecting an article about "diurnal raptors".

raptor redirected to "bird of prey" anyway, so used the more accessible term and delinked Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:19, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

• recognizable vs savannah, that's USEng vs BritEng. Pick one and use it.

changed to recognisable - trying to use BritEng - Aa77zz (talk) 18:09, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

• I would think its vulnerable status would be suitable for inclusion in the lead.

I agree - added - Aa77zz (talk) 07:48, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

• "one to three eggs is laid. All three young " one to three, then "all three" is a bit jarring.

I've rejigged the second sentence to separate the threes - better? - Aa77zz (talk) 12:55, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

• "birds of prey" and "raptor" offer the same link in the lead, so that's really overlinking.

removed Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:20, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

• "height to as much as 1.3 m (4.3 ft) tall" no need for "tall" in this construction.

fixed - Aa77zz (talk) 17:47, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

• "In 1779 the English" no comma and the vs "In 1835, Irish naturalist" comma and no the.

fixed - "the" added x 2 - Aa77zz (talk) 20:59, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

• In general avoid false titles.

as above - Aa77zz (talk) 20:59, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

• Where is "Senegambia"?

now wikilinked - Aa77zz (talk) 21:21, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

• Sagittariidae, Pandionidae, Accipitridae and Cathartidae are all overlinked.

I would like to retain the duplicated links in the cladogram. I normally add links to figures and cladograms as it allows readers to understand them without having to search through the text to find a link. - Aa77zz (talk) 20:35, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

• "enigmatic bird Eremopezus " is "enigmatic" a biological term here? Our article says it only exists in fossils, so I guess that's pretty damned enigmatic...

Happy to go with any other more Anglo-saxon adjective that conveys the same meaning - in this case "little-known" but with an added twist of taxonomic uncertainty...might be a ratite or might be related to this critter...so could change to "little-known" or "poorly-known" I guess...IFYSWIM? Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 22:43, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

• No need to link major unambiguous geographical entities, like France.

fixed France - are there others? - Aa77zz (talk) 20:35, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

• Accipitridae is mentioned before accipitrid but not linked.

link moved to earlier occurence - Aa77zz (talk) 10:11, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

• I see the IOC calls it Secretarybird and that could be a reason for our own title, but we often ignore the IOC for issues such as capitalisation so if that's the only reason the article is as titled, I remain to be convinced.

We'd agreed to follow IOC as default until gazumped by the 2014 capitalisation debate. So now IOC is default unless someone proposes and gains consensus for a page move. Lots of sources use both - and it seems as though newer sources tend to use the term unspaced as one word whereas older sources tend to use two words spaced. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:26, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

I think the ngrams I posted above demonstrates that the spaced version is by far the common name in most of the rest of the universe. But you're right, this isn't a requested move, it's just a surprised shrug of the shoulders that we aren't applying COMMONNAME. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 18:06, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

The ngram puzzles me - the sources I am looking at, there appears to be a higher proportion of unspaced than is reflected by that graph. Must try and get a sense of most official sources and take it from there Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:42, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

• "raptor" in the Description section is overlinked.

I can only find one link. - Aa77zz (talk) 21:10, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

• "sub-terminal.[26][23] ref order.

fixed - Aa77zz (talk) 18:07, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

• thowing - typo.

fixed - Aa77zz (talk) 17:44, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

• "or an irruption or rodents" of rodents??

fixed - Aa77zz (talk) 17:59, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

• Could link thermals.

fixed -Aa77zz (talk) 17:49, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

• "hoarse growling" vs "guttural croaking"...

gone with "guttural croaking" for consistency - although growling and groaning are also used. - Aa77zz (talk) 11:25, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

• "2-3 eggs" en-dash, and I'm sure in the lead it was 1 to 3?

well spotted - it should be 1-3. ndashed, - Aa77zz (talk) 21:47, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

• "1.0–1.5 metres (3–5 ft) across with a depth 30–50 centimetres" no need for expanded metres/centimetres suddenly here.

fixed - all abbreviated -Aa77zz (talk) 17:52, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

• "clutch of 3 eggs" three.

fixed - Aa77zz (talk) 17:57, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

• "at the Oklahoma City Zoo built " no need to so quickly repeat the zoo name.

fixed - Aa77zz (talk) 21:05, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

• "The species now successfully breeds in captivity around the world," I wasn't sure I could find the "around the world" noted in the reference for this sentence.

removed "around the world" as not in cited source. - Aa77zz (talk) 12:39, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

• Link carrion.

linked - Aa77zz (talk) 17:55, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

• "to 5 times" five.

fixed - Aa77zz (talk) 17:55, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

• " them down and pin then" ->" knock them down then pin them..."

fixed - Aa77zz (talk) 18:02, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

• "(approx. 3200BC)" -> "(c. 3200 BC)"

fixed - Aa77zz (talk) 18:05, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

That's all I have on a quick run through. Hopefully some of it's helpful. It's on hold. Cheers. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 15:20, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

It is very helpful - thorough as always and not afraid to push until satisfied. It's what we need at this point. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:28, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

I would also like to thank you for your review. - Aa77zz (talk) 13:47, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

No problem everyone, I thoroughly enjoyed the article which is beyond GA quality. I hope to see it at FAC soon. I'm promoting, as the name issue is somewhat outside the scope of the GA criteria, but I would still be interested to see any justification, especially if this does go to FAC. Cheers. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 08:09, 14 April 2020 (UTC)