Talk:Scouting and Guiding in France

Attention tag

Great that this article is now here. However I note a lot of redlinks. My understanding from way back is that lots of really interesting stuff happened in France. I recall for example in the 1960s that I meet Scouts from the anti-clerical tradition in France who did not have a Promise of Duty to God, while of course those from the Catholic tradition did. Can someone add, or translate from fr:WP, articles on the various organisations, giving history, organisation, Promise, Law, etc.? --Bduke 13:16, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

+1: Conférence Française de Scoutisme --jergen 20:12, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

+1: Eclaireuses et Eclaireurs de France --jergen 12:34, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Other language articles on individual organizations

• fr:Scouts unitaires de France

Chris 00:29, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:France EEdF.svg (done)

The image Image:France EEdF.svg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check

• That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
• That this article is linked to from the image description page.

The following images also have this problem:

• Image:Éclaireurs Neutres de France emblem.svg
• Image:UIGSE.svg
• Image:France SUF.svg
• Image:France SMdF.svg
• Image:France SGdF.svg
• Image:Scoutisme Français.svg

This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. --09:24, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Done. --jergen (talk) 10:49, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Too many non-free images

This article contains a number of non-free images with no critical commentary, and they are used merely as a means of identification for groups that are not actually discussed at length. Furthermore, the use of the gallery format is almost always considered inappropriate for non-free images. It is clear that the scouting project has failed to deal with this issue, and an issue it is. J Milburn (talk) 18:37, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

OK. I've fixed it. --Bduke (Discussion) 22:10, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Much better; thankyou. J Milburn (talk) 22:31, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Brian, I have unfixed your "fix", Egel and others are dealing with the galleries in a much better fashion. Please don't feed the trolls. A user that says contentious and rude things like "It is clear that the scouting project has failed to deal with this issue, and an issue it is" is not one that we should pander to. Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 07:06, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Chris, I object do you describing my action as "bending to contentious editors". J Milburn is right. You are just wrong here. There is an issue here. Wikipedia uses a free licence and non-free-material can be used only under very restricted conditions. A gallery of non-free images does not meet these conditions. There is no discussion of the images and no real reason for them being there. They should just go. The Scouting Project is not fitting in with the general guidelines and policies here. You are fighting for special consideration. I am not pandering to anyone. I am supporting a basic philosophy of wikipedia - it is free open source. With this as an explanation I am going to revert your edit. You certainly have not demonstrated that you have consensus here. --Bduke (Discussion) 11:07, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Brian, I wasn't accusing you of anything. The solution Jergen is working on below is what I was talking about. There is a rational, useful way to keep the images, and wholesale removal is not the best way. In friendship, Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 14:38, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

If User:J Milburn would act in good faith, he would have recognised that I was working on the missing articles; after that would have been done, I would have deleted the gallery as done in Scoutisme Francais (and several more, eg Speidernes Fellesorganisasjon). It may be novel to J Milburn, but writing content takes some time.

Actually, the only missing article is Association des Guides et Scouts d'Europe; luckily its emblem has some more usage, so there is no actual risk of deletion for it as I am not sure when I will manage this article. --jergen (talk) 11:28, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

I'm really not appreciating the abuse I'm getting here. I am not acting in bad faith; I am doing my bit to improve the encyclopedia. I am not a "contentious editor"; what I am doing is actually fairly standard practice- as these articles are probably not viewed as much as, say, articles on pop groups, they have been, in effect, left behind. I'm certainly not a troll- I'm trying to be peaceful about this. I know the scouting editors resented my last attempts to remove images, but that was months ago, and this article has not been touched. If you are working on the issue, then that is appreciated, but this article wasn't touched and had too many non-free images. Therefore, I tagged it as needing attention. This is the equivalent of accusing me of bad faith for tagging an unsourced article as such, simply because months ago someone said that they were working on it, yet achieved nothing. I am not saying that you're not doing a good job- I'm not really familiar with your contributions or the efforts of the scouting project as a whole. My tagging was based purely on policy as applies to this article, as it was when tagged. If there are alternatives to removing the images, then please do implement them here. However, I can assure you that the article is now far better than it was, so please do not simply revert. J Milburn (talk) 17:39, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Oh, and if any images wind up deleted because of my actions (or the actions of anyone else) but are needed at a later date for another article, I am more than happy to restore them. Very few images on Wikipedia are ever truly "lost". J Milburn (talk) 17:44, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Many serious mistakes in this article

Hello ! I don't speak good english, so I will explain my point in french. I made an edit two weeks ago, reverted by Jergen as POV. I'm afraid Jergen doesn't know the french scouting like I do or doesn't know it at all if he thinks so. I won't re-do this edit but I'd like to present here many serious mistakes I readed in this article. If someone can translate my message or correct this article, thank to him.

• Recognized and no-recognized associations : Le système décrit dans l'introduction de reconnaissance des associations par le ministère de la Jeunesse et sports est complètement faux. D'abord, on parle d'associations agréées et non reconnues par l'Etat, car la reconnaissance renvoie au statut d' « association d'utilité publique ». L'agrément comme mouvement de scoutisme est effectivement donné à neuf grandes associations mais les agréments régionaux sont rares et la majorité des associations ne sont pas agréées. Leur activité n'est pas du tout illégale pour autant, elle n'est simplement pas reconnue et soutenue par l'Etat.
• Conférence française de scoutisme : La CFS n'a jamais eu d'activité. Elle a été créé en 2000 pour coordonner l'action des mouvements qui ne faisaient pas partie du Scoutisme français, suite à une crise grave du scoutisme en France déclenchée par la mort de quatre scouts marins et d'un plaisancier. Présenter les associations à travers CFS ne correspond absolument pas à la réalité du scoutisme en France. Le scoutisme en France est simplement divisé entre Scoutisme français, Autres associations agréés et Autres mouvements ; c'est la présentation adoptée par fr:Scoutisme en france.
• Associations affiliated at Éclaireurs neutres de France : Il n'y a pas "a number" d'associations affiliées mais trois. Et elles sont toutes catholiques traditionnalistes. le revert de Jergen ici est incompréhensible.
• History : J'ai travaillé sur ce sujet sur la fr:Scoutisme en france si le coeur vous en dit.
• Fédération française des éclaireuses picture : La FFE n'était pas une organisation neutre, en tout cas pas au sens français du terme. Elle comportait trois sections, une neutre, une protestante et une juive.

φ... 15:20, 31 March 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Phiérithros (talk • contribs)

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