Talk:Scopolamine/Archive 1

Archive 1

Naming / Shouldn't this page be under hyoscine?

Given hyoscine is the rINN of scopolamine, shouldn't it be under hyoscine rather than the US-only name scopolamine? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.8.204.9 (talk) 18:33, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

Can you provide evidence that this is an rINN compound? I can't find an rINN list mentioning "hyoscine", nor can I find a pINN list mentioning it. I am temporarily removing the "rINN" tag until I can find that evidence. 128.231.10.112 (talk) 16:45, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

Martindale doesn't list scopolamine as the USAN and neither does drugs.com and as hyoscine is the BAN, which seems to be the only official name for this drug, I think that we should rename this article as "hyoscine". Fuse809 (talk) 07:28, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

I've merged two headings with the same types of questions into one heading for ease of response. Jaydubya93 (talk) 23:22, 16 March 2014 (UTC)

Thanks you did good! Fuse809 (talk) 03:14, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

Hey, hey, hey! I just found a mention of hyoscine's INN and hyoscine is it! See: http://www.un.org/esa/coordination/CL12.pdf and look for "Hyoscine methonitrate". If the UN calls it by this name, that probably means it's the INN or as close as we're going to get! Fuse809 (talk) 03:14, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

If the article's name is now "Hyoscine hydrobromide", the molecular drawing should be changed to the hydrobromide's structure (protonated amine with Br- counteranion)! — Preceding unsigned comment added by MadderChemist (talk • contribs) 05:40, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

Agree and done a while ago. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 21:41, 27 October 2016 (UTC)

The molecular drawing is still the free base. However it would be better to name this article as the parent free base (the bromide is just of one many possible salts) rather than change the figure. Boghog (talk) 10:05, 19 November 2016 (UTC)

Subtype selective

According to Nestler and Hyman's Molecular Neuropharmacology: A Foundation for Clinical Neuroscience 2nd edition, Chapter 6 page 173, scopolamine is described as NOT having any M-subtype specificity. Just thought I'd let you guys know..seeing as the page says that scopolamine has M1 receptor subtype specificity...and no citation. So might as well remove that sentence for now? :) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 110.175.239.160 (talk) 06:36, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

I've added some details in. I've always thought it was a nonspecific antagonist, and many sources use it as such, but a bit of googling suggested there was some specificity, including this company who sells it. Sorry for referencing a google search, I guess that's probably not good form?Keepstherainoff (talk) 15:56, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

bioavailability

Note that the oral bioavailability is incorrectly reference for hyoscine butylbromide, the tertiary amine. Oral bioavailability of hyoscine hydrobromide will be significantly higher but I cannot find a direct reference quantifying the bioavailability.

80.0.251.1 (talk) 13:45, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

I concur that the data is for a different chemical compound and have therefore removed it. -- Ed (Edgar181) 15:17, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

Buscopan as hyoscine butylbromide. But it is not the same with hyoscine hydrobromide!

Buscopan (R) (hyoscine butylbromide) is a well known & widely used generic drug. Not mentioned here. It is not the same with hyoscine hydrobromide! It is used to relieve bowel spasm, contrary to hyoscine hydrobromide, used to reduce respiratory secretions. Buscopan is less sedative, but less effective on reducing secretions. 84.205.241.2 (talk) 19:38, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

What is scopolamine?

What is scopolamine? I'm gathering that from a medical perspective, it's one of two salts of hysocine, and that hyoscine is an INN for what the chemists call scopolamine. Is that correct? Scopolamine has many incoming links and is pointing to the hyoscine disambiguation page, but most of the links can't be readily be disambiguated to one of the two salts. It looks like 3-4 different things are getting conflated here thanks to differences between medical terminology and chemical terminology : CAS 51-34-3 (chemist's racemic scopolamine), CAS 114-49-8 (one of the two medical scopolamines and the one that should be associated with this article title) CAS 149-64-4 (the other medical scopolamine) and 138-12-5 (chemist's (-)scopolamine). 138-12-5 is what is shown in the Knowledge Graph when I Google scopolamine; I'm not sure where Google is getting that value from, but I doubt the mess at Wikipedia/Wikidata is helping. Plantdrew (talk) 20:32, 3 November 2016 (UTC)

Hyoscine is the INN scopolamine is the USAN. What are you suggesting? Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 09:12, 4 November 2016 (UTC)

Page name

Doc James, I respect your work on medical articles, but you're over-estimating what bots and our volunteer editors are capable of and willing to do. Consider other fields for a moment. There are now at least 140 instance of "scopolamine" as the displayed text being piped to hyoscine hydrobromide, thanks to an enthusiastic editor fixing dab links (and stemming fro your recently redirecting scopolamine to a dab page) Those links really should be going to a broader article about the chemical compound hyoscine/scopolamine (call it what you will, but while medical professionals can perhaps disambiguate it to two salts, chemists can't and need an article for the compound itself). Plantdrew (talk) 02:55, 15 November 2016 (UTC)

When "scopolamine" is being used to mean "hyoscine hydrobromide" than it should be piped. What would be even better is it should have been replaced by "hyoscine hydrobromide (scopolamine)" similar to have we have "paracetamol (acetaminophine)" when that is the case people are referring to.

The scopolamine / hyoscine issue is better than it was before as before it was more wrong than it is now. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 03:05, 15 November 2016 (UTC)

Hmm I had not realised there was a whole series of these splits going on. I'm a bit uncomfortable with that dab page for scopolamine / hyoscine as it seems to have introduced some inaccuracies. Firstly it is fundamentally incorrect to say that hyoscine butylbromide and hyoscine hydrobromide are different salts of the same compound, as they are not. The butylbromide derivative has an additional butyl group covalently bonded to the nitrogen to make a permanently charged quaternary ammonium salt, which necessarily requires a counter-ion, conventionally bromide. Hyoscine hydrobromide on the other hand is simply the bromide salt of hyoscine, but this can also exist as the base amine form. The two compounds have different applications, and in my part of the world at least it is common for Buscopan to be referred to as hyoscine butylbromide, but hyoscine hydrobromide is more commonly known by the old name scopolamine. Secondly it is not correct to say that hyoscine = hyoscine hydrobromide. The convention on Wikipedia for chemical compounds like this has always been to make pages about the base form, even if one particular salt form is the most commonly used. While it may be true that hyoscine hydrobromide is the salt most commonly used these days in medical treatment of humans via tablets or injectable routes, hyoscine hydrochloride was also used historically, and is still commonly used in scientific research on animals. Also even in medical treatment of humans, the bromide salt is not the only form that is approved for use. Transdermal patches of scopolamine use the base form, as a salt would not be well absorbed through the skin (see [www.transdermscop.com/prescribing-information.htm here] for instance). Also worth noting that scopolamine has a long history of (non-medical) use from plant sources such as Datura species, and the form that is in the plant won't be the bromide salt either, it will have some kind of organic acid as a counterion. So the wikipedia page should be about the base form per the usual convention, not just the hydrobromide. Meodipt (talk) 23:04, 17 November 2016 (UTC)

Okay so what are you proposing exactly. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 03:56, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

I suppose it would be best to just move the "hyoscine hydrobromide" page to plain "hyoscine" and note somewhere on the page that the hydrobromide salt is the form most commonly used but other forms of the compound are known. On the "hyoscine butylbromide" page I would list "butylscopolamine" as an alternative name, as this is more accurate (as the N-butyl group is the key difference from plain scopolamine, not the bromide) Meodipt (talk) 06:11, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

The article was not split (both articles had existed for a very long time). What happened was that scopolamine was renamed as hyoscine hydrobromide. Scopolamine is a natural product and the parent chemical structure whereas hyoscine hydrobromide is the INN of the drug.

What we have is a conflict between in WP:PHARMMOS (a guideline) and WP:NAMINGCRITERIA (a policy). Wikipedia article naming criteria include naturalness (one that readers are likely search for), precision (unambiguously identify the article's subject), and conciseness (title is no longer than necessary to identify the article's subject). Hyoscine hydrobromide fails all three criteria. It is not natural (there is a 10:1 ratio of Google search results for "scopolamine" vs "hyoscine hydrobromide"). It is not precise because the scope of the article is wider than the drug, it also includes the natural product. Finally the salt name is less concise than the parent. One solution is to recreate scopolamine as separate natural product/pharmacology article. Boghog (talk) 07:27, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

Many appear to be using scopolamine when they actually mean hyoscine hydrobromide. Yet as you say scopolamine is wider than just that medication.

So from a chemist POV are scopolamine and hyoscine the same? Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 20:38, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

scopolamine (C₁₇H₂₁NO₄) ≠ hyoscine Hyoscyamine (C₁₇H₂₃NO₃). They are closely related but not identical. Hyoscine Hyoscyamine contains an epoxide ring whereas scopolamine does not. Both scopolamine and hyoscine are natural products. The bromide salts are drugs. Boghog (talk) 21:03, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

Okay and what about hyoscine hydrobromide and scopolamine hydrobromide? Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 21:58, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

I am not sure I understand what is behind your question. Clearly hyoscine hydrobromide ≠ scopolamine hydrobromide. Furthermore my comments about the naming of the scopolamine article would equally apply to hyoscine. Or are you asking a different question? Boghog (talk) 22:08, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

Okay well this source [1] redirects one to the other? And does so for hyoscine aswell. Are they close enough together that they should be dealt with on the same page? Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 22:13, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

Sorry, mixed up hyoscine with hyoscyamine. Scopolamine and hyoscine are indeed identical and can be dealt with at the same time. Boghog (talk) 22:34, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

Okay so having hyoscine/scopolamine, hyoscine hydrobromide/scopolamine hydrobromide as single articles makes sense than. I would be happy to see the hyoscine disambig turned into an article were all the different types / salts are discussed. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 22:38, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

Scopolamine and hyoscine are synonyms I believe (according to PubChem at least), its hyoscyamine which is lacking the epoxide. But from what I can see the INN for scopolamine base (as in the transdermal patches) is scopolamine, but the INN for the bromide salt (as in pills or injectable form) is hyoscine hydrobromide. Quite confusing. Anyway I would tend to think scopolamine should be the page name per WP:COMMONNAME but in the introduction you could say "often known by the INN hyoscine hydrobromide" or something like that? Meodipt (talk) 22:39, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

Agree it is complicated :-) I think going with the INN is better for an international audience. Do you have a ref for "the INN for scopolamine base (as in the transdermal patches) is scopolamine"? Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 22:41, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

Just what it says on the PubChem page, which isn't always 100% reliable, though the drug data sheet for "Transderm-scop" patches also calls it scopolamine base. Neither are exactly MEDRS compliant sources though. In practice I don't think the transdermal patches are that common compared to pill forms, but in terms of layman's usage I would say scopolamine is still the more widely used name (and a lot of people seem to get confused about whether scopolamine / hyoscine are the same molecule, so Wikipedia really needs to be clear about this!) Meodipt (talk) 22:47, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

Oh and regarding the international audience, the German, French, Spanish and Swedish Wikipedias all use scopolamine as the primary page name (with language appropriate spelling variations), hyoscine always comes second, and all those pages are primarily about the base form not the bromide salt. Also shouldn't this whole extensive discussion be moved to the scopolamine talk page rather than the testosterone one ;-) Meodipt (talk) 22:52, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

KEGG COMPOUND database also lists scopolamine as the INN for scopolamine base [2] Meodipt (talk) 23:11, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

Interested as this source uses hyoscine butylbromide[3] Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 02:09, 19 November 2016 (UTC)

Hum I wonder if the PubChem page is simply copying from Wikipedia. This source says "Hyoscine Butylbromide (BANM) is known as Scopolamine in the US."[4] Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 02:15, 19 November 2016 (UTC)

This ref says "Scopolamine is more formally known as hyoscine, the International Non-Proprietary Name (INN)."[5] Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 02:25, 19 November 2016 (UTC)

Neither of those sources is any better than PubChem or KEGG though...the drugs.com statement is straight out incorrect, hyoscine butylbromide is known as butylscopolamine (or perhaps more correctly butylscopolammonium bromide), not as plain scopolamine...and the Science and Justice paper doesn't provide any citation for that statement either, quite aside from the fact that it refers to the substance as scopolamine pretty much every other time it is mentioned... Meodipt (talk) 03:20, 19 November 2016 (UTC) Also, IUPHAR have this compound listed as scopolamine, with hyoscine as a synonym [6] To be honest I think both names seem quite equally accepted, I'm not sure either is really preferred, but the WHO seems to favour hyoscine and most other expert bodies scopolamine from what I can see. Meodipt (talk) 04:46, 19 November 2016 (UTC)

I think we now all agree that the disambiguation page be turned into an article where both the free base and all its salts are treated in one article and that "bromide" "hydrobromide" should be removed from the page name. The only remaining question is what to call the free base. Reiterating what Meodipt said above, the vast majority of foreign language Wikipedia articles use the translated version of scopolamine, which suggests that even for international audiences, scopolamine is the more recognizable term. There is also a 2:1 ratio of Google search results for scopolamine over hyoscine. PubMed MeSH uses Scopolamine. WP:NAMINGCRITERIA would seem to favor scopolamine. Boghog (talk) 10:58, 19 November 2016 (UTC)

This disambig is at hyoscine and has no "bromide" in the page name? So not sure how it could be removed when not there? 2:1 is more or less the same. PubMED MeSH is American not international and often uses the USAN. We have some sources that say hyoscine is the INN.Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 23:51, 19 November 2016 (UTC)

There's no need to be deliberately obtuse just because the debate is not going your way. Clearly what Boghog is suggesting is that the "hyoscine hydrobromide" page be moved back to "scopolamine". And we have other sources that say the INN is scopolamine, with no clear consensus that either name is preferred, but some evidence that scopolamine is the name more commonly used. I would suggest the intro be changed to say something like "Scopolamine, also known as hyoscine", and then when it gets to the medical uses section say something like "in medical applications it is most commonly used as the bromide salt hyoscine hydrobromide (INN), though scopolamine base is used for transdermal patches". And at the very top of the page we could add "Not to be confused with quaternary ammonium salts such as hyoscine methylbromide or hyoscine butylbromide". The "hyoscine" page can stay as a dab, actually that seems like quite a sensible approach. Meodipt (talk) 00:16, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

Ah. Well in fact I am not sure what Boghog is suggesting and that is why I am asking for clarification. I disagree with what you suggest as it is very American centric as lot of countries also commonly use other salts of hyoscine not just the hydrobromide one as medication.

I guess if we need more input a WP:RM could be started. But calling a specific type of hyoscine (hysoscine hydrobromide) the name of the entire group is unclear and a bit dangerous as people may be given the incorrect one because of us. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 00:41, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

What other salts of hyoscine are used, and in what other countries? I can only find reference online to the hydrobromide (most common), the hydrochloride (seems to be commonly used for animal research, but can't find any preparations for human use with this salt), and the base (used in transdermal patches). These are the only forms mentioned in my pharmacy textbook too (Remington: The Science and Practice of Pharmacy), though to be fair that is an American textbook. To be honest I don't really care that much whether the page is called hyoscine or scopolamine, they are synonyms after all and either seems equally acceptable. But following standard practice per WP:COMMONNAME it would seem that the more commonly used name is scopolamine. I appreciate that as a doctor you prefer the name that the WHO favours, and that is fine, but there is no consensus among other professional bodies to use hyoscine as the name, and scopolamine seems more common among laypeople (i.e. the "average reader" we are always supposed to be writing for). The key point though is that the page has to be about the base form, not named for one particular salt, as that is simply incorrect. We can't have a page called "hyoscine hydrobromide" that lists Transderm-scop as a trade name, when Transderm-scop does not contain the hydrobromide salt but instead has the freebase. Are you planning to rename "codeine" to "codeine phosphate" or "morphine" to "morphine sulphate"? Those are after all the salts most commonly used in medical practice, but the Wikipedia pages for those compounds are rightly about the base, not just the most common salt. And I don't really follow your concern that people might be given the wrong form because of the name that is used on Wikipedia, surely most pharmacists would just dispense the formulations that are commercially available. If anything the risk would be the other way round, that if the name we give is just for the hydrobromide salt then conceivably some compounding pharmacist might make up a transdermal preparation using the hydrobromide salt instead of the base and consequently it would not be effective due to failing to be absorbed through the skin. In practice that doesn't seem very likely, but it illustrates the point of why the page needs to be about the base form of the drug, not just the most commonly used salt. Meodipt (talk) 02:51, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

Was thinking of Hyoscine butylbromide also known as scopolamine butylbromide. But I now see it is not a salt but an addition of an ammonia group.

We do have Hyoscine methobromide which is a salt but also contains a methyl group by the looks of it

I guess we can have a disambig for those though. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 04:25, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

• Methylscopolamine bromide and hyoscine butylbromide are fundamentally different since they are quaternary ammonium salts that cannot exist as free bases, they must have a counter ion. Hence it is reasonable that a quat salt page name includes the most commonly used counter ion, in this case, bromide. Scopolamine/hyoscine in contrast can exist as the free base and both the free base and hydrobromide salt are used as drugs. Furthermore hyoscine hydrobromide is not an INN, it is a modified INN. Hyoscine is the INN. So will you at least agree Doc James that "hydrobromide" should be removed from the "hyoscine hydrobromide" page name? Boghog (talk) 05:24, 20 November 2016 (UTC)
• I just noticed that WP:PHARMMOS already has explicit recommendations for salts. For salts other than quaternary ammonium cations, the INN is the active moiety, in this case scopolamine / hyoscine. Hydrobromide is pharmacologically inert and hence should be removed from the page name. Boghog (talk) 09:46, 20 November 2016 (UTC)
• Just to be absolutely clear, what I am proposing is hyoscine hydrobromide be moved back to scopolamine, the name that was used in the English Wikipedia for 15 years and still is used in most foreign language Wikipedias. Boghog (talk) 05:45, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

I am supportive of moving ""hyoscine hydrobromide" to the modified INN "hyoscine" and moving what is currently at "hyoscine" to a disambig. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 17:05, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

Can you move it then? It says it needs an admin to do it. Just put the dab page at scopolamine then if you want to be so particular about the name. Meodipt (talk) 09:48, 23 November 2016 (UTC)

Would be happy to put this page at hyoscine and the hyoscine page at hysocine (disambiguation) so that we are than sticking with the INN names mentioned by Boghog. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 04:17, 24 November 2016 (UTC)

Ok, go on then. Meodipt (talk) 09:45, 24 November 2016 (UTC)

Done. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 02:49, 25 November 2016 (UTC)

Transdermal Dose Effectiveness

"the dose that can be absorbed by the skin is too low to have any effect[38] (scopolamine transdermal patches must be used for hours to days).[24]"

No, it isn't, and the cited reference doesn't say that (based on my quick reading of it). I realize that I cannot use my personal experience for this article, but, nevertheless, I've used a lot of transdermal scopolamine, and I can assure you, it has effects soon after application. In particular, the packaging that I received states that the maximum dose is two (of the nickel-sized patches) at one time, which contradicts the article's claim that the dose that can be absorbed through the skin is too low to have any effect. The patch is supposed to be applied at least four hours prior to expected need, but that's not to say that it won't have some immediate affects, particularly if someone touches the patch and then rubs their eyes (direct contact with the oily liquid of the patch to the eyes will cause profound and rapid blurring of vision). Pooua (talk) 00:43, 1 January 2017 (UTC)

Testing

Please discuss the available window for testing. This will be useful for victims, myself possibly included. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fulldecent (talk • contribs) 16:33, 24 April 2017 (UTC)

Incorrect structure of intermediate in plant biosynthesis

The structure of Littorine in the pathway listed is wrong

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Littorine — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.71.99.126 (talk) 05:10, 18 April 2018 (UTC)

 Fixed Thanks for pointing out the error. It has now been fixed. Boghog (talk) 11:39, 31 May 2019 (UTC)

Hyoscine / hyoscine hydrobromide

Medically these are generally dealt with together per here.

The one is found in the patch. The other is within pills and injections. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 03:08, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

As they are dealt with together belongs here as a synonym. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 00:31, 19 November 2018 (UTC)

First medical use

The statement in the header that "Hyoscine...came into medical use in 1947" is contradicted by other cites in the article. The ref does not back up this assertion. Hyoscine was in regular medical use much earlier. It's pretty common knowledge for anyone who reads "golden age" detective fiction, as I do, that hyoscine was routinely used medically in the 1920s-30s, and used in at least one real-life murder (I may have to dig for that ref). Does anyone have a good ref for the first medical use? --D Anthony Patriarche (talk) 20:58, 17 June 2018 (UTC)

done Jytdog (talk) 23:09, 17 June 2018 (UTC)

thanks Jytdog; I've added another history ref, expanded the plant source/etymology paras a little - will put more in History section --D Anthony Patriarche (talk) 00:19, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

Of course -- the murder was Crippen -- how could I forget! --D Anthony Patriarche (talk) 00:22, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

Please don't update only the lead (the part above the table of contents). That section just summarizes the body (the part below the table of contents). See WP:LEAD. Jytdog (talk) 00:34, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

Bogota medical study

The source http://www.acnweb.org/acta/2005_21_3_197.pdf is unclear about numbers. The text gives an intoxication rate of 12,5% and the illustration 21%. Also, since only 65% of the patients had more than one substance detected, the total of detected substances should amount to more than 100%, and they do not.

I have tried to partially clarify. — Preceding unsigned comment added by V975 (talk • contribs) 00:23, 1 March 2019 (UTC)

Criminal Use

I am proposing that the first two sentences in the Crime section be either struck or rewritten, namely:

"Claims that hyoscine is commonly used in crime have been described as "exaggerated" or even implausible. Powdered hyoscine, in a form referred to as 'Devil's breath' does not 'brainwash' or control people into being defrauded by their attackers but is rather an urban legend."

Hyoscine / Scopolamine / Burundanga is quite clearly a commonly used agent in criminal activity. Even in this article, it's noticed that the US DOS reported "One common and particularly dangerous method that criminals use in order to rob a victim is through the use of drugs. The most common [in Colombia] has been hyoscine. Unofficial estimates put the number of annual hyoscine incidents in Colombia at approximately 50,000." Also, that between 1998 and 2004 13% of emergency room adminissions for criminal poisoning were because of it. Many popular articles and TV shows dealing with scams on travelers mention the same.

Whether people deliver it on business cards, or via other vectors that would require efficacy in minute doses, is another question-- but whether it is used widely in many parts of the world in the most basic ways (administered via a beverage) should not be. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dano5050 (talk • contribs) 23:45, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

Contraindication

Being older is a caution not an absolute contraindication. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 17:18, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

Differentiation of Atropine vs Scopolomine

This article and Atropine seem to be clones. Both drugs are anticholinergics and are usually found together in plants. But not always, the same activity or dosage. Fellow chemist worked on oxime reactivators for phosphate based anticholinesterase inhibitors. Second half of treatment (US Army) was atropine injection, other anticholinergics were tried but scopolomine made troops delirious. Short reference needed for Belladonna wiki article?. Belladonna (trans. Beautiful Woman) the plant/substance was used by Medieval Italian women because wide pupils in women was considered alluring. It was popular for its time and many women who used it died young. An Italian physician at the time said their brains looked like Swiss cheese, but no official autopsies in medieval Italy (so schools used stolen cadavers.) Ethylene oxide is used to sterilize due to its anti bio activity. No mention of this reactive epoxide moeity on the Scopolamine molecule??? Yes this is an old molecule yet more effective new drugs are based on these. Rare are epoxides not metabolized or harmul in some way. (C.F. Arene Oxides) Perhaps a link to Epoxide wiki might suffice. TaylorLeem (talk) 19:27, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

Possible use against Kremlin critics

Here is an article that suggests that hyoscine may have been used against critics of Vladimir Putin and his close allies. https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/poisoning-russian-dissidents-200822163134775.html Heavenlyblue (talk) 08:07, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Can't immediately find anything to verify that this drug was specifically named by German doctors as mentioned. Heavenlyblue (talk) 08:18, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

The article name should be "Scopolamine"

This article's name should be changed to "Scopolamine" because that is the preferred name internationally, including in the USA, German-speaking world, French-speaking world, and Spanish-speaking world.

Alkaloid nomenclature was often the subject of heated and confusing debate, and a particular instance is relevant to the present discussion. "Hyoscine" - first prepared by Albert Ladenburg in 1880 - and "scopolamine" - first isolated by Ernst Schmidt from Scopola species in 1888 [...] - are synonyms, but a colourful controversy regarding their identity raged, especially in Germany, from their discovery until the early twentieth century. Both names continued to be used for many decades, the choice often seemingly dependent on the nationality of the writer, and by the mid-1920s, the name "hyoscine" had largely been abandoned except in England and associated countries [not including the USA!]. (Paul Foley, "Duboisia myoporoides: The Medical Career of a Native Australian Plant", Historical Records of Australian Science vol. 17(1), p. 31-69, 2006.)

- Wwallacee (talk) 12:14, 28 December 2020 (UTC)

Requested move 2 January 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved (non-admin closure) (t · c) buidhe 02:16, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

---

Hyoscine → Scopolamine – "Scopolamine" is the preferred name of the substance internationally, including in the USA, German-speaking world, French-speaking world, and Spanish-speaking world. Here is some relevant context: 'Alkaloid nomenclature was often the subject of heated and confusing debate, and a particular instance is relevant to the present discussion. "Hyoscine" - first prepared by Albert Ladenburg in 1880 - and "scopolamine" - first isolated by Ernst Schmidt from Scopola species in 1888 [...] - are synonyms, but a colourful controversy regarding their identity raged, especially in Germany, from their discovery until the early twentieth century. Both names continued to be used for many decades, the choice often seemingly dependent on the nationality of the writer, and by the mid-1920s, the name "hyoscine" had largely been abandoned except in England and associated countries [not including the USA].' (Paul Foley, "Duboisia myoporoides: The Medical Career of a Native Australian Plant", Historical Records of Australian Science vol. 17(1), p. 31-69, 2006.) Wwallacee (talk) 11:11, 2 January 2021 (UTC) —Relisting. Jack Frost (talk) 12:28, 16 January 2021 (UTC)

This is a contested technical request (permalink). Anthony Appleyard (talk) 16:31, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

• @Wwallacee and BegbertBiggs: queried move request Anthony Appleyard (talk) 16:31, 2 January 2021 (UTC)
• WP:NCMED recommends using the INN. BegbertBiggs (talk) 13:38, 2 January 2021 (UTC)
• The drug is predominantly known as hyoscine in Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, Great Britain, the Republic of Ireland, Malta, and nearly all English-speaking countries, excepting the U.S.A. This is the English Wikipedia. What the Germans, or the Namibians, or the French, or the Belgians call it matters nothing at all, for the purposes of this project (that's for German Wikipedians or French Wikipedians to manage). I disagree strenuously with bowing to American usage, when such usage is hardly universal; that's what redirects are for.--104.247.246.48 (talk) 06:17, 15 February 2021 (UTC)
• Support per WP:COMMONNAME. The Google Ngrams demonstrate that "scopolamine" is the common name in English overall[7], including both American English[8] and British English[9]. Rreagan007 (talk) 03:48, 16 February 2021 (UTC)
• Support per nom, and evidence of predominant English usage. BD2412 T 04:52, 22 February 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 9 January 2019 and 26 April 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Scarito.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 08:32, 18 January 2022‎ (UTC)

Crime category needs revisions

I noticed there was some strange grammar and spelling in the paragraph concerning crime. I made a few small edits (26 june 2022) to correct this. After quickly checking the edit history of this section, I would recommend a more experienced editor rollback to an earlier edit, which appeared more accurate. The most recent edits to the article (21 June 2022) seem unnecessary.

I have no real experience editing Wikipedia pages, but this seemed concerning.

72.47.10.59 (talk) 08:59, 26 June 2022 (UTC)