Talk:Sam Houston and slavery/GA1

GA Review

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Reviewer: Kavyansh.Singh (talk · contribs) 04:26, 1 January 2022 (UTC)
Nominator: CaroleHenson (talk · contribs) at 22:48, 10 August 2021 (UTC)

Will take a look soon! – Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 04:26, 1 January 2022 (UTC)

GA criteria

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
It is reasonably well written. a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists): It is factually accurate and verifiable. a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism): It is broad in its coverage. a (major aspects): b (focused): It follows the neutral point of view policy. Fair representation without bias: It is stable. No edit wars, etc.: It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate. a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
Overall: Pass/Fail:
· · ·

Comments

General

• Article is missing a short description

 Done–CaroleHenson (talk) 17:31, 1 January 2022 (UTC)

• Following terms are linked multiple times in the article. Suggesting to import this script. They should be linked only twice–once in the lead section, and once in the prose:
  • Texas Governor's Mansion
  • Tom Blue
  • Margaret Moffette Lea
  • Marion, Alabama
  • Independence, Texas
  • Baylor College
  • June 19, 1865
  • manumission
  • Sour Lake, Texas
  • Matamoros

Great points.  Done, with links in captions, which means one instance of Tom Blue and Margaret Lea Houston show as a duplicate in "Highlight duplicate links". Does that work for you?–CaroleHenson (talk) 17:31, 1 January 2022 (UTC)

• WP:GEOCOMMA needs to be implemented throughout the article. There are multiple instances where it is not. I'll try to list all in the detailed comments section, but I may miss some.

I will look for the places you mention this, then will circle back on this as a whole.–CaroleHenson (talk) 17:31, 1 January 2022 (UTC)

Detailed

Lead

• with the institution of slavery itself. — can remove 'itself'.
• and Governor of Texas — My understanding of MOS:JOBTITLE is that this should be lower-cased. I may be wrong, let me know if you disagree.
• a number of times → "various times"
• and he would not swear an oath — odd wording; will "and he did not swear an oath" work?
• He believed that — at the beginning of every new paragraph, you'll need to specify this last name.
• the country (multiple instances) — could be replaces by "America" or "the United States"
• As we link Western United States, we should also link Northern United States
• his wife Margaret Lea Houston relied — add commas before and after Margaret Lea Houston. great to see Margaret Lea Houston as a FA
• blacksmithing and other — commas after blacksmithing

 Done Good points. For "country", I changed one to United States, left one... and then when it meant rural kinds of areas, I changed "country" to "countryside". Does that work for you?–CaroleHenson (talk) 17:46, 1 January 2022 (UTC)

Yeah. – Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 05:49, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

Events related to his opinion of slavery

• His father Samuel Davidson Houston — comma after "His father"
• follow his yearning-adventuresome spirit (emphasis mine) — really, seems a bit extraneous, can we rephrase (just a suggestion)
• See Sam Houston's life with the Cherokees — should be moved to the heading of this section. Shouldn't be in prose. Same with See Andrew Jackson and slavery.

I put them at the end of the paragraph, since it does not refer to all of the paragraphs, but just the ones at the bottom of this section. Does that work?–CaroleHenson (talk) 18:05, 1 January 2022 (UTC)

Not really. Can also move it to the "See also" section, but not in the prose. – Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 18:56, 1 January 2022 (UTC)

Kavyansh.Singh - Sorry, I misspoke, I grouped the two see alsos at the end of the section, not paragraph. If you'd like them in the see also section instead, that works for me better than at the top of the section, where the relevancy isn't clear yet.–CaroleHenson (talk) 23:54, 1 January 2022 (UTC)

That maybe, is better. – Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 05:49, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

 Done–CaroleHenson (talk) 06:01, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

• he fought in the — specify Houston
• President of the Republic of Texas (1836–1838) and (1841–1844) → "President of the Republic of Texas (1836–1838; 1841–1844)"
• while he was — specify Houston
• President of the Republic of Texas — MOS:JOBTITLE
• One year later → "A year later"
• he voted against — specify Houston
• "The glory of my life ... worst of times." — the quote isn't long enough to justify a block-quote.
• February 22, 1855 — comma after 1855
• He stated that progress in the — specify Houston
• en masse — can we write "altogether" instead?
• Houston toured Texas in one last plea to stay with the Union: — this is immediately succeeded by a quote. Specify something like "he said:"
• he spoke for two hours; He was the only Southern — specify Houston
• February 8, 1861 and — comma after 1861
• the Confederate States Army 2nd Texas Infantry Regiment — avoid linking two adjacent words
• "My heart seems almost broken ..." — try not to start a sentence with a quote.

Moved "she wrote to her mother" to just before the quote. I am not sure the quote is needed, though. I liked it at the time, but I would be ok with removing it. See what you think.–CaroleHenson (talk)

Overall, I noticed that there are various quotes. You may remove the less-important ones. – Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 18:56, 1 January 2022 (UTC)

I removed a number of quotes here.–CaroleHenson (talk) 00:14, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

Nice. – Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 05:49, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

Completed this list, with two comments.–CaroleHenson (talk) 18:05, 1 January 2022 (UTC)

Houston's slaves

• He (Houston) really — that (parenthesis) should be [square brackets]
• There are a lot of short paragraphs, which can be merged.
• Before he married Margaret — specify Sam
• "worked a complete reformation" — the article doesn't specify where this quotation comes from.
• Marion, Alabama — MOS:GEOCOMMA after Alabama
• May 9, 1840 — comma after 1840
• Independence, Texas — MOS:GEOCOMMA after Texas
• Temple Lea — comma before and after this
• January 28, 1834 — comma after 1834
• a Senator — lowercase
• Sam Houston Jr. v. Sam Houston, Jr. — consistency needed
• At the Houston's household, slaves were assigned a plot of land to raise crops for themselves in November 1848 — move "November 1948" to the beginning of the sentence.

See what you think. I reworded a bit + changed "the Houston's" to "the Houstons' " - but could also remove "the" and switch the apostrophe back.–CaroleHenson (talk) 18:44, 1 January 2022 (UTC)

I'm fine with it. – Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 05:49, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

• They slept under the stars — trivia?
• $175 — suggesting to add Template:inflation
• Houston’s — fix the quote mark (’ to ')
• Prather states — 'states' to 'stated'
• There is a legend that Houston — "According to a legend, Houston "
• December 3, 1867 — comma after 1867
• Little would have changed for those who left the household. They were not legally free and they were subject to laws that limited their rights and freedom. Houston's slaves were officially freed on Juneteenth in 1865. — The last sentence has already been told. Rest could be merged with the previous para.

I removed the first two sentences and left the last. Does that work?–CaroleHenson (talk) 18:44, 1 January 2022 (UTC)

Done, with two comments. A question: should we use the {{inflation}} template in other places, too? It seems like it would be overkill in all of the places, but perhaps for the "$10,530" valuation - since it's a larger number. I'll be back to complete the rest.–CaroleHenson (talk) 18:52, 1 January 2022 (UTC)

I'll suggest its usage at large values. – Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 18:56, 1 January 2022 (UTC)

 Done in two more places.–CaroleHenson (talk) 00:23, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

Biographies of slaves owned by Sam and Margaret

• Marion, Alabama — MOS:GEOCOMMA after Alabama
• In the summer of 1848 — Per MOS:SEASONS, try to avoid mentioning seasons to refer to particular time of the year.

I have never seen this guideline. From MOS:SEASONS - it seems like the major point is that the seasons vary depend upon when you live north or south of the equator. This article is entirely about the United States, north of the equator, so I don't see the problem. I thought about "mid-year" as an option, but summer seems better to me. Of course, if you feel strongly about this, I will make the change.–CaroleHenson (talk) 00:40, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

I'm fine with it. I don't feel strongly about this, just wanted to know your viewpoint. – Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 05:49, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

Okay, cool.–CaroleHenson (talk) 06:01, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

• April 16, 1840 — comma after 1840
• Fort Bend, Texas — MOS:GEOCOMMA after Texas
• He appeared tired — lowercase 'H'
• cracklin’ bread, — fix the quote mark (’ to ')
• Jeff Hamilton was born a slave on v. Joshua Houston born into slavery in

I am not understanding the issue. Do you prefer one over the other approach? Do you think that they should be worded the same?–CaroleHenson (talk) 00:40, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

What I am curious about is whether "born a slave" and "born into slavery" same? If so, I think we can be consistent. – Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 05:49, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

Yes, they mean the same thing. Okay, I will make them both the same.–CaroleHenson (talk) 06:01, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

• worked as hard as grown men, bright young man — seems extranous

Yep, I see. It's a tone issue.–CaroleHenson (talk) 00:40, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

• eleven miles — suggesting to use Template:convert
• The servants sat in a balcony above the white congregation. — why is this important? trivia?

Yep, I guess it does teeter on trivia, but it's a reminder, without going overboard, about how daily life was different for black and white people. I am happy to remove the sentence if you think it's a problem.–CaroleHenson (talk) 00:40, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

Fine. – Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 05:49, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

• July 4th — inconsistent date format
• was a large man — ?
• He states that — "he stated that"
• five miles from — suggesting to use Template:convert

I made your suggested changes in all but 3 places in this section - see notes above.–CaroleHenson (talk) 00:40, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

Images

• Suggesting to add ALT text.
• File:Samuel houston.jpg — "You must also include a United States public domain tag to indicate why this work is in the public domain in the United States"
• Also, if this is going to any further review process, there might be some concerns with images off architectural pieces, as United States does not have freedom of panorama

I made these changes for the first and second bullet. Is this what you wanted?–CaroleHenson (talk) 00:57, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

Just noticed that the link you provided has alt text for each image. I will make those changes.–CaroleHenson (talk) 01:00, 2 January 2022 (UTC)  Done–CaroleHenson (talk) 01:07, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

I don't understand the third bullet. This concept is new to me and it seems unclear to me how one would know which architectural pieces (which I assumes means in this case anything that isn't a portrait of a person or people, or a work of art) have a copyright.–CaroleHenson (talk) 00:57, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

Sources

• The following source is listed but never used:
  • Haley, James L. (2002). Sam Houston. Norman : University of Oklahoma Press. ISBN 978-0-8061-3405-5.
• Retrieved March 26, 2016. v. Retrieved 2021-07-11. — inconsistent date format
• Seale 1992, pp. 83–86.. — why '..' after 86?
• Seale 1992, pp. 65. — should be 'p.'
• Denton, Texas v. Denton, TX — inconsistent location format
• Why is http://www.edwardsaquifer.net/spspring.html a reliable source?

 Done, including swapping in a better source for the San Pedro Park speech. Oops.–CaroleHenson (talk) 01:37, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

Overall

Putting the review on hold. You might want to take a look at George Washington and slavery, a featured article. – Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 09:42, 1 January 2022 (UTC)

Thanks, Kavyansh.Singh for the detailed review. I will start on it after I get some sleep.–CaroleHenson (talk) 10:31, 1 January 2022 (UTC)

Oh, sure. I am happy to review this article on January 1, the date when all the slaves were legally emancipated! – Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 10:37, 1 January 2022 (UTC)

Yay, Happy New Years and Happy Emancipation Day!–CaroleHenson (talk) 18:54, 1 January 2022 (UTC)

Kavyansh.Singh, I believe I have made all the updates - with some outstanding questions or places where you'd like me to do more.–CaroleHenson (talk) 01:37, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

I copy-edited a bit, feel free to revert anything you don't like. – Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 06:22, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

The edits look great! Thanks so much.–CaroleHenson (talk) 06:43, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

Okay, giving this one a second read, I think we are good to go for GA here. Promoting. If you want to go ahead with FA, I think it needs a bit of work for that (given the comprehensiveness of George Washington and slavery). I recommend a nice copy-edit by WP:GOCE/REQ and a peer review first, but, for now, great work! Thanks! Will take a look at Mr. Houston and native Americans in a day or two. – Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 07:28, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

Thanks so much, Kavyansh.Singh. I really appreciate how thorough that you were. Great job!–CaroleHenson (talk) 16:14, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

Thanks to you for the article! Amazing how a few points can encourage a person to review articles! – Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 16:22, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.