Talk:Salsa music

Needs editing

The information on the article is adequate but the formatting is a mess (as of april 12th 2021) and it's not written in wikipedia style (more like magazine style). I'm taking a jab at this. Feel free to help. --Xocoyote (talk) 14:16, 13 April 2021 (UTC)

add a link to Izzy?

Could someone add a link to Izzy Sanabria? He was instrumental in popularizing the term "salsa." His site is here: http://www.salsamagazine.com/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.0.58.18 (talk • contribs) 07:16, 12 February 2006

2010-Present should mention the emergence of several Dominican acts

In the 2010's there was an explosion of Dominican artists that, at least in the Dominican Republic, have kept the genre alive and growing, such as: Chiquito Team Band, Revolución Salsera, David Kada, Sexappeal, and Yiyo Sarante. I don't fully grasp their success outside the DR, though. However should be highlighted that their style departs from the romantic salsa of the 1990's and 2000's with even more pop-like compositions and sometimes even removing classic features of salsa like the pregoneo altogether. I think a good example that represents this style is Yiyo Sarante's Corazón de Acero. Rondi8 (talk) 17:37, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

Overstating the authority of Johnny Pacheco

I have reverted several additions[1] which gave the voice of Johnny Pacheco too much WP:WEIGHT, based on poor sourcing. SalsaSiempre, the problem with your additions is that Pacheco contradicts musicologists such as Hutchinson who writes that salsa "originated with Cuban rhythms that were brought to New York and adopted, adapted, reformulated, and made new by the Puerto Ricans living there." Salsa is not just from Cuba. The Garland encyclopedia says:

Beginning in the 1960s, Puerto Ricans and other Hispanic Caribbeans living in New York City modernised and transformed the son by paring down ensembles, combining elements of jazz, and using urban-oriented lyrics. The term salsa distinguished it commercially from its Cuban predecessor, though musicians and audiences have always acknowledged its connections with son. [...] Music that elsewhere might be called salsa is still produced in Cuba, though locals reject the term as a U.S.-derived commercial name.

• Olsen, Dale A.; Sheehy, Daniel E., eds. (1998). "Part 2. Popular Music of the Spanish-Speaking Regions". South America, Mexico, Central America, and the Caribbean. The Garland Encyclopedia of World Music (hardcover). Vol. 2 (First ed.). New York and London: Garland Publishing, Inc. p. 102. ISBN 0-8240-6040-7.

Please don't try to redefine the topic as purely Cuban music. It's not. Binksternet (talk) 15:05, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

I did not say Salsa is just from Cuba. I quoted the man who made Salsa world famous. He said Salsa is Cuban. There is a difference. Just because there are more Mexicans listening and making Cumbia music, it doesn't make it Mexican. Its still Colombian music that is made by and enjoyed by Mexicans. In the same way Salsa is made by Puerto Ricans, Dominicans, Colombians and Peruvians and Panamanians as well as Cubans. The quotes by Pacheco also state that New York Enhanced Salsa because of the blending of different groups.

The fact that you stating that Puerto Ricans in New York are responsible for Salsa, proves a huge point. Puerto Ricans from the Island of Puerto Rico did not create salsa. Where did the Puerto Ricans get their Salsa from? Americans from New York? No, from the Cubans who played music in New York.

Tito Puente was a very honest man. He said that Salsa is a Sauce, what he plays is Cuban Music.

The root of Salsa is its rhythm. Clave - comes from Cuba. Thats why its also called the Son Clave.

Sonero comes from Soniar - Comes from Son. Cuba.

Timbales, Bongo and the Conga Drum and the way its played is from Cuba.

The Part where the Horns enter on a Salsa Song is named Mambo.

When you hear Salsa on the Radio or in a night club. They are not playing Bomba and Plena. They are playing Cuban rhythms. Bomba and Plena are a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of what is known as Salsa music.

Due to the embargo with Cuba. Many Puerto Ricans took credit for Cuban songs without crediting the artist. When Hector lavoe sang Songoro Cosongo, or Rompe Saraguay, he took cuban songs. This has been done almost 1000 times. I am writing a book on this subject.

Songs like Que bonito es Puerto Rico, Mi Pais, and Un Verano en Nueva York and many other songs written for the Puerto Rican audience, are also Loved by Puerto Ricans but they were still written and composed by a Cuban.

Pachecos quotes are his. Not mine. he is recorded on tape, saying these things.

I can add other quotes by the biggest names in Salsa saying the same thing.

You shouldn't silence a voice because you don't like the history.

I want to take this over to a 3rd party so they can review and decide for themselves whether the quote is factual and if it should stay or not. But not be silenced by one person. SalsaSiempre (talk) 18:10, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

I don't mind introducing a quote by Pacheco but it should not be so lengthy, and should not be considered defining to the topic. He is involved too deeply in the music; not an impartial observer. Wikipedia is based on impartial WP:SECONDARY sources which define the topic. Primary sources are often interesting but they don't change the basic facts.

For instance, there are plenty of musicians who deny that their music is goth, or nu metal, or whatever. Impartial music critics disagree, and Wikipedia sides with the music critics in every case, and then relays to the reader the fact that the musician doesn't like the genre label. Musicians don't get to define their own musical genre on Wikipedia.

What you have been doing is setting up Pacheco as the final arbiter, the greatest authority. Wikipedia does not consider him to be so authoritative. Binksternet (talk) 19:04, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

No one person is the final arbiter. If it will make you happy, I can add more Puerto Rican Salsa artists and Non Cuban Salsa artist quotes stating the same thing, or would you also want to block those as well.

If I have evidence saying the world is round, you seem to be saying that because there are people claiming the world is flat and should get to define that there world can be flat as well. You shouldn't silence my voice saying the world is round. You should just state your evidence for the world being flat.

I used to think Salsa was Puerto Rican. I went to concerts, never heard the word Cuba hardly ever.

Then I started researching and studying. I was wrong.

The more I researched not only did I find that it wasn't Puerto Rican, there was a huge push in the community to hide its cuban origins. There have been literally over 1000 songs performed by mainly Puerto Ricans that were Cuban, and credits were not given nor royalties paid, or a song is a complete copy of cuban song and the words changed. When Puerto Rican artist performed there songs, they never mention to their fans they got the songs from Cubans. There are also non-disclosure agreements that cannot be broken for fear of being sued from the biggest Puerto Rican artist today if it got out which if their songs where composed and written by Cubans.

There has even been efforts by the Puerto Rican government to not allow Cubans to try to get credit or royalties from the songs and music that have been stolen from them. If I start posting an article with links on this will you try to block it too?

Although, I feel that you are trying to silence me and would rather have this reviewed by a 3rd party. I will compromise with you.

There is a section in the wiki page where others post quotes of the same nature. I will add my quote in that section. I believe your issue was that it was to "big" on the main page. Another issue is that you say it was too much content from one person.

I will shrink it down to 2 quotes and leaving my references.

“La salsa es, y siempre ha sido la musica Cubana.” “Salsa is, and always has been, Cuban music.”

“Como mismo reconozco que la raíz de esta música es cubana, debo decir que en Nueva York se enriqueció porque había gente de varias partes, y traíamos música de todos lados, y tratamos de meterla en una misma clave. Las influencias eran muy vastas, y por eso hay diversidad en el ritmo y en la melodía. Y esa fusión solo se podía lograr en Nueva York, donde todo está mezclado”.

“As I recognize that the roots of this music are Cuban, I must say that in New York it was enriched because there were people from various places, and we brought music from all over, and we tried to put it in the same clave. The influences were very vast, and that is why there is diversity in the rhythm and melody. And that fusion could only be achieved in New York, where everything is mixed.”

I hope that this is a good compromise for the both of us. I'll wait for your response.

I can give you another example of truth that many don't know. Although Reggaeton is forever tied with Puerto Rico, it originated from Panama. The people from Panama know this.

You have taught me a lesson, that because free speech can be limited by anyone, Wikipedia is not the best platform. Its best all saved for a published book. SalsaSiempre (talk) 11:37, 28 October 2023 (UTC)

Needs more mention of the rest of Latin America, e.g. Venezuela

For instance, Ray Pérez recorded the song "La salsa llegó" with both Los Calvos and Los Dementes in 1967 (and an entire album titled "La salsa llegó". Compare e.g. http://web.archive.org/web/20080518042846/http://www.descarga.com/cgi-bin/db/archives/Interview48. As it stands, the article very much seems to sell the US narrative. 2001:9E8:1480:F800:21B6:FF83:A6D7:BB20 (talk) 18:31, 21 January 2024 (UTC)