Talk:Sakher El Materi

Sources

Do not remove sourced information to put in un-sourced information. I can point you to a number of policies on sourcing in Wikipedia.--Banana (talk) 05:51, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

Also, stop using misleading edit summaries.--Banana (talk) 05:53, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

Response

The source removed was an unreliable blog written by people that are clearly anti-government. They can not possibly be considered reliable. So please remove it. It is comparable to using 'MacForum' for an article on Microsoft!

Please re-insert the information about Princess El Materi Holdings. How is it possible to write an article about this man without including 'some' information about his creation (from scratch) of a multi-billion dollar company! Clearly you are trying to make this an article about his family relations and completely ignoring the work he has done. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kand1nsk1 (talk • contribs) 08:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

I've posted this to Wikipedia:Third opinion.--Banana (talk) 08:39, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

I see you have made a posting to the NPOV noticeboard. I am find with either venue.--Banana (talk) 08:53, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

I see you have made some valid contributions to this site so clearly you are a reasonable chap... how do you consider it appropriate to 'eliminate' all information about his creation (from scratch) of a multi-billion dollar company? As opposed to eliminating it, would you not consider it appropriate to re-insert information about the hows and the whys he created his companies... (especially the religious overtones). From my understanding he is a deeply religious guy who did a lot to promote reasonable interpretation of Islam (hence the radio station, the newspaper which is widely respected after winning the Guido Dorso). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kand1nsk1 (talk • contribs) 19:38, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

POV

As you can see in the French version of the article, Sakher El Matri is accused of corruption in a lot of fields in the Tunisian economy. None of those are cited in the article. It means that the article is not neutral, and probably developped by a payed wikipedian to enhance his image woldwide. Plz use sources in the French version to obtain a NPOV. --Helmoony (talk) 15:36, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

Feel free to edit the article. It badly needs work. --Banana (talk) 07:50, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

I've removed the really POV sentences, but we still need something on his corruption. --Banana (talk) 07:55, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

House in Canada

I have removed the sentence about the house he used to own in Canada (see url: http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Stop+protesting+outside+house/4128285/story.html ). On the basis that this claim is causing a family 'misery' I would imagine it inappropriate to include on this page.Kand1nsk1 (talk) 07:55, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

Isn't it funny you also removed "Materi is a billionaire"? --Banana (talk) 07:12, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

funny? Not at all... If I recall correctly, you considered his owning a 'multi-billion dollar holding company' so irrelevant you deleted the entire paragraph! That fact alone would have led any reader to conclude he was a billionaire. What you have now done is included a source that has no possible claim to his private financial details and included their "opinion" of his financial wealth and passed it off as a fact! That isn't funny at all...Kand1nsk1 (talk) 13:20, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

I agree, "he is a billionaire without some details of the companies he owns and such like is completely valueless and cited to the same source that started all the he has a house in Canada rubbish and caused innocent people to be upset - I would never have added that worthless trivia also . "he has a house in Canada" really? how encyclopedic. Off2riorob (talk) 13:25, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

There is a public debate ongoing if Ben Ali's family should be allowed to live in Western countries. I'm not seeing how including where he owns property, seeing as it led to protests, is worthless trivia. Knowing that he is a billionaire is important to understanding why some are so quick to accuse him of corruption. That article already has some details about businesses he owns, but he is extremely wealthy without owning the type of businesses that would normally produce that kind of wealth. For a normal billionaire, their business where they earned their money would be extremely important to their article. I guess the fact that none of this is clear from reading the article means I did a bad job of putting the information in context. --Banana (talk) 15:45, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

I added a quote, from the same source, stating the house is a symbol of corruption. --Banana (talk) 15:55, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

The house ownership claim was false - It was false and caused living uninvolved people troubles. When I saw you originally add it I wanted to remove it immediately. It was just like -- and hey, hes got a house in Canada, so? Its not illegal even if it were true. Also your other blind comment - yea, and hes a billionaire..So, what business assets does he own? how is he a billionaire, how is this shown to be true and then what is the relevance - all you seem to have added it for was to show he is allegedly corrupt, cos he has a house in Canada and he is a billionaire... Off2riorob (talk) 16:05, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

You seem a bit opinionated about this - please attempt to edit in an WP:NPOV manner and pay special attention not to violate WP:BLP. In an edit summary you said,"house is a symbol of corruption, backing up why the house is important" ans another "owns house in Montreal, is a billionaire, was a possible heir to the presidency"and again "adding sources about his corruption" - it is not difficult to see where your POV sits. Off2riorob (talk) 16:02, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

Well, the section above has someone complaining the article I had worked on was "not neutral, and probably developped by a payed wikipedian to enhance his image woldwide". When both sides accuse me of violating policy, I think I'm doing something right. : ) Please either explain why I am not editing in a way consistent with NPOV and BLP, or take it to a noticeboard, get a third opinon, ect. It is impossible for me understand your objections if you don't explain them.

Also, explain why you made this edit. Here [1] is where you removed information, saying it was not in the citation. The quote comes from the first sentence of the article. Just a simple mistake?--Banana (talk) 00:06, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

I couldn't see the specific comment, no worries, so I decided it could be re written anyways, so I looked at the citations and tweaked the content a bit, I think its better now, and all the basic detail is still there, and imo we could remove the NPOV template with the current content. Off2riorob (talk) 00:35, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

We should probably check with the editor who originally tagged the article and Kand1nsk1/Dirk daenen/ips to see if their concerns are met. --Banana (talk) 01:23, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

Yes, if there is any objection they can feel free to replace. thanks. Off2riorob (talk) 01:56, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for going back to a neutral standpoint. Unfortunately someone else (anonymously) changed it again. I should have simply undone the change but I made a manual change first... and now it seems I can not revert to the previous. I think the previous paragraph about the house was well-written with a good source. Can someone re-include it? Thank you, I also truly appreciate that you wanted to check for my opinion, very courteous and professional.Kand1nsk1 (talk) 17:01, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

a former member of RCD

I added a source saying that Matri is no longer member of RCD. I don't know how deleted it, I bring it back. here is the new sentence. A former member of the ruling Constitutional Democratic Rally, he was elected as a Member of the Chamber of Deputies of Tunisia for the constituency of Tunis on 25 October 2009 and stricked off by the party after the Tunisian Revolution. --Helmoony (talk) 18:57, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

References

Higher Technician Certificate

Matri has a Higher Technician Certificate not a bachelor degree. I made the change and added a source. --Helmoony (talk) 18:57, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Interpol

Hi, I added the information about interpol in Biography. In 2011, Interpol issued global alert to arrest him and other Ben Ali's relatives. You can find other links on internet. --Helmoony (talk) 23:50, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

References

Semi-Mafia

To balance hat is saied in the introduction about his group. It s important to say that his investments are obtained by a mafia-way. Here is the qdded sentence. He is considered to be a part of a "semi-mafia" presidency durig Ben Ali's regime. --Helmoony (talk) 11:31, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

-- The article you quoted mentions that the Ben Ali presidency was semi-mafia. It is also clearly an opinion, if you want to add it anywhere, please got to the Ben Ali page and describe it for what it is. I believe your purpose is to show that the origin of his wealth is presently being disputed... the section about Interpol clearly demonstrates that he is wanted by the Tunisian authorities about this issue. Whatever they decide when they prosecute him is relevant. All these other opinions written by scandal-mongering newspapers I would imagine are best left relegated to blogs, not encyclopediasKand1nsk1 (talk) 10:18, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

References

Nestlé

Some one has deleted the sentence dealing with Nestlé. I added sources not blogs as you can see dealing with '

Nestlé's secret dealings with Tunisia's ruling family revealed

Revelations have emerged over Nestlé and its relationship with the former ruling family of Tunisia. In 2006, one of the sons-in-law of former president Zine El Abidine Ben Ali illegally acquired 40 percent of the company’s operations in that country, buying the shares at a below-market price.Officials at Nestlé headquarters claim they weren’t consulted — or even informed — about the purchase. The Vevey-based company bought the shares back several years later. Nestlé, headed at the time by Peter Brabeck, chose not to inform shareholders of the matter, but the controversy has now come to light as the result of investigative work by Télévision Suisse Romande. TSR journalist Anne-Frédérique Widmann sheds more light on the affair in a chat with WRS’s Pete Forster:' as yopu can read here [2]. --Helmoony (talk) 21:57, 11 February 2011 (UTC)