Talk:Saint Patrick's Day/Archive 3

Edit request on 20 March 2012

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Patrick's_Day This page has an error which reads:

• Project, internationally, an accurate image of Ireland as a creative, professional and sophisticated country with wide appeal, as we approach the new millennium.|

"as we approach the new millennium" should be changed to "in the new millennium" since we are not "approaching" but are "in" the new millennium.

Thank you for your attention.

74.14.197.148 (talk) 18:33, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

 Done I removed reference to the millennium and updated the ref's link, which was broken. It's now in line with what is said on the source. Thanks for pointing it out. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 20:23, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

Patty's (Sic) and sick

Patty's day is wrong, and as Ierland shouldn't be put on the Ireland page, it has no place here.86.45.12.27 (talk) 01:19, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

Yep, the term is completely undue. IRWolfie- (talk) 08:24, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

For those who are unaware there is a relevant discussion above. Murry1975 (talk) 09:56, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Reliable sources override personal opinions, hence it stays. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 10:28, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Taking an uncommon name that a particular source uses does not mean it has WP:DUE weight for the article (and the source used is pretty dire). Also, we shouldn't be including WP:SLANG terms as alternative names. IRWolfie- (talk) 10:42, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

It's in wide usage, hence it's not "undue weight". I don't think it's "right" either, but it has become common usage. If you want to talk about "slang", "Paddy" also qualifies. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 10:53, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Yep, neither should be used mentioned as alternative names because they are slang terms per WP:SLANG. Also I guarantee serious academic sources about St. Patrick's day that use the term are few and far between so it is undue. IRWolfie- (talk) 10:59, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Both are in wide use. Whether a source is "serious" or not doesn't necessarily figure into it. This is an encyclopedia for the masses. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 11:07, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

No this is completely and absolutely not the case. Try and claim that at WP:RSN and see how much traction you get. Wikipedia strives to use serious sources per WP:RS and WP:SOURCES as they are the most reliable etc. If serious sources don't use the term, neither should we. Wikipedia isn't just an encyclopedia for the masses, it strives to be a high quality encyclopedia. IRWolfie- (talk) 11:21, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Reliable sources use Paddy and Patty. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 11:25, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

What Baseball Bugs said. Reliable sources use it, so your complaint is unfounded. You also need to look at the Infobox Holiday template this article uses. It specifically has a "nicknames" field, so there is nothing unusual or undue about nicknames appearing in holiday articles. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 17:18, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

It's hardly a serious source, editors commonly use slang terms in titles and slang terms are present in many informal articles in newspapers. I doubt you will find a serious source that calls it St Patty's day. 18:47, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Wolfie has raised the issue at another board:[1] ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 11:47, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

For those interested: Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard#Slang_terms, those on the board agree that slang is inappropriate in wikipedia tone as per guidelines. IRWolfie- (talk) 15:35, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

For those interested, Wolfie is mis-characterizing the discussion, which largely refutes his complaints. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:56, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

I abhor the name St Pattys, but it's obvious from several good sources that a lot of those strange Americans use that name, so that fact needs to be recorded in this article. HiLo48 (talk) 23:13, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

St Patty's is clearly wrong (my opinion). But Wikipedia isn't here only to tell people what's right; it's here to tell people what is. Unfortunately (my opinion again), many people in the US use the term St Patty's - it is a name that ill-informed (my opinion again) people use, but they do use it, so Wikipedia needs to report it as a name that's used.Ytic nam (talk) 23:24, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

I have no issue with including it in the article itself noting it, but I don't think it is appropriate in the "Also called" box. It is like having "Crimbo" in the other name box of Christmas. IRWolfie- (talk) 08:58, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

infobox

Before the brief interlude to the discussions above, we were discussing the best way to handle the various names, but "St. Patty's" in particular. One of my concerns is the lack of good solid references for "St. Patty's Day". Let's try to see what the consensus is on this (in the calm after the storm) before the issue arises again (inevitably). I believe the main points were:

• "St. Patty's Day" is a recognized name for "Saint Patrick's Day"
  • but little or no refs (anecdotal, no "academic", none by subject matter experts)
  • is objected to by some
  • anecdotally seems to be a US or US-influenced name
• "St. Paddy's Day" is a recognized name for "Saint Patrick's Day"
  • refs exist, including "academic" and from subject matter experts

One proposal I'd favour is to create a new section on these alternative names (etymology-ish). Thoughts? Another is to remove "St. Patty's" and "St. Paddy's" from the infobox. Thoughts? --HighKing (talk) 09:27, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

So, are you suggesting a solution where we take all non-official names out of the infobox and have a new section in the article on non-official/also-known-as/nicknames etc? If that's what you're suggesting then I'd agree completely.Ytic nam (talk) 09:36, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

I do not believe there is any such thing as an "official" or "non-official" names for international cultural holidays. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 16:17, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

I disagree. For example, many people in the US (some might say most)refer to the third Monday in February as President's Day. Wikipedia does not; not even in the info box. I know, that's a US holiday not an international one, but the principle is the same. Let's imagine a situation where every editor goes around putting all the "non-official" names for everything in the info box.Ytic nam (talk) 18:13, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

Info boxes work, as with everything else in Wikipedia, to what is notable and verfiable. If editors add names to the info box that are not both they are removed. Whatever their perceived "official" status. I'm not familiar with President's Day, but clearly the fact it is defined in US law gives it an official name. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 11:52, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

I think you're missing the point on President's day. It is not defined in US law and not an official name, but many people use it. The first paragraph of the Washington's Birthday article states " It is commonly but erroneously known as Presidents Day" and President's day is not mentioned in the info box. I am arguing that we should treat "Saint Patrick's Day or the Feast of Saint Patrick" (1st line of Saint Patrick's Day article) exactly the same. I can find notable and verifiable sources for President's Day - but the point is they're wrong.Ytic nam (talk) 15:10, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

I don't think these names need expert or academic recognition in order to be verifiable, so I don't think there need be any significance difference between how Paddy & Patty are treated within the article. I see no credible argument for removing either from the infobox. The purpose of the info box is to summarise key facts in a condensed form, and there are fields in the box specifically for nicknames. Its purpose is not to sanction what some perceive to be official/proper/approved information at the expense of other controversial/non-academic/"I just don't like it" information. Removing both may be a compromise, but it's a poor one that panders to censorship and where everyone loses.

Beyond that, the section you propose is a good idea, although etymology is the very thing that we've always found difficult to source. Attempts to do this so far have been original research with a fair amount of speculation. But I am always happy for anyone to have a go at adding a new section, particularly if it puts the controversy to rest once and for all. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 16:17, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

In 2008, was an optional memorial on March **14**

Please investigate the following, which I found after trying to look up 2008 observance of St. Patrick's in the Catholic diocese of Norwich, Connecticut, U.S.A.; notice the reference to a different diocese (Providence, Rhode Island, which may border the Norwich diocese):

http://www.dioceseofprovidence.org/?id=14&uudis=47

As was already mentioned in the Ireland observance of St. Patrick's in 2008, there were a couple of things considered in placing this optional memorial (in the U.S.) of St. Patrick's on March 14 that year:

• Holy Week is restricted to the seasonal liturgy of that week.

• Could not use March 15 because that was being used that year for St. Joseph (normally March 19). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.63.16.20 (talk) 16:41, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

Lead is for facts not uncertain opinions

I removed a statement in the lead; "Today, St. Patrick's Day is probably the most widely celebrated saint's day in the world.", sourced from here. HighKing reinstated it on the grounds that it was referenced.

There a multiple problems with this;

• The cite does not say this. No "probably" about it. It says Patrick is "the world’s most celebrated and beloved Patron Saint".
• The cite offers zero facts to back this statement up, it is presented simply as an opinion.
• Leads should stick to facts or clearly attributed opinions from notable authorities. This is none of these.
• The opinion is sourced to the "Saint Patrick Foundation", an unofficial body that is unlikely to be neutral, especially in its own publicity blurb.

Bottom line is that if the lead is to mention this it should be;

• a fact
• backed by hard verifiable figures, or a very good unbiased authority
• not using an unconvincing "probably" that casts doubt even on its own cite.

--Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 11:27, 14 October 2012 (UTC)

Since no-one has any comment to make on the above I am going ahead with removing this unconvincing fact from the lead. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 15:15, 18 October 2012 (UTC)

what? references please..??

"jolly-jumpers and Seltic music."  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.38.197.76 (talk) 03:41, 10 March 2013 (UTC) 

Germany

German wikipedia claims that St. Patrick's day parade in Munich is 'the biggest in continental Europe' and yet it isn't even mentioned here (although Switzerland is mentioned)... Can anyone verify this? 82.135.67.177 (talk) 23:45, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

Edit request? Ireland, when March 17 is Sunday other than Palm Sunday

Is this the right place to point out what I believe to be a mistake in the Irish? Surely it's "La Feile Phadraig. ie. The festival day of Patrick. Regards, 92.51.225.210 (talk) 10:00, 17 March 2013 (UTC)Ronan

OK, the article does have transfer (for Ireland) of feast of St. Patrick in the rare case where March 17 is in Holy Week. Not as rare is the case of March 17 on Sunday (other than Palm Sunday). I'd like at least a confirmation (that's why I hesitate to edit this myself for now): When that happens, does the feast move to next day (March 18)? Next year (2014) this occurs (i.e., March 17 on Sunday other than Palm Sunday).

Holiday technically in Boston

While St Patrick's Day is not technically a holiday in Boston, MA (Suffolk County), Evacuation Day falls on the same day, a convenient way to help celebrate St Patrick's Day as well. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evacuation_Day_(Massachusetts) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.30.70.13 (talk) 11:43, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

Agreed, I was just going to note the same thing. The <<on dit>> is that because the dates were the same, the Irish in the late 19th c. got the proposal through for a city-wide celebration as a kind of surreptitious way to get the day off for their celebration as well. Evacuation Day being the day the cannon that Knox brought from Ticonderoga were set up on Mission Hill and led the occupying British to decide to leave Boston i.e., evacuate. Since this theme--outsmarting the British and getting them to leave town--has been a resonant one for the Irish from times long past, it was more than simply coincidental that the day might deserve a bit more celebrating.

Of course, if one discusses St. P's day in Boston, one also has to bring up the issue of the Southie Parades, and the evolution of gay rights' issues along with it. That might need an article of its own if it doesn't already have one....96.233.98.79 (talk) 14:39, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

Why post that in Canada it sometimes turns violent?

If you included every piece of news where an incident occurred on St. Patrick's Day this article would be huge, it felt out of place considering it was the only reference of its sort in the article.

208.80.101.135 (talk) 16:50, 17 March 2013 (UTC)Canadian

Edit request on 17 March 2013

Please remove the section: "St. Patrick's Day occasionally turns violent due to the large number of intoxicated individuals celebrating in Canada. This was seen, for example, in the London, Ontario area in 2012, where college students lit a TV van on fire then threw bottles at firefighters (attempting to put out the fire) and police officers in the area."

I'm sure there have been acts of vandalism by drunken St. Paddy's revelers everywhere around the World, to make this sound like a normal occurrence in Canada is unfair. There have been 190 consecutive St. Patrick's Day parades in Montreal and they are not "occasionally violent".

[ 70.80.70.51 (talk) 19:21, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

Removed as unsourced opinion. One incident does not a pattern make. --NeilN ^{talk to me} 19:44, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

St Patty Again

It would seem that some are determined that the issue of including "St Patty" should be revisited. Which is fine, but I would ask that previous annual discussions are read. These established previous consensus;

• Talk:Saint_Patrick's_Day/Archive_2#St_Patty
• Talk:Saint_Patrick's_Day/Archive_2#Edit_request_on_17_March_2012
• Talk:Saint_Patrick's_Day/Archive_2#St_Patty.27s_and_.22mostly.22_Irish
• Talk:Saint_Patrick's_Day/Archive_3#St Patty's (sic) and sick

The source previously used has changed, and so can no longer be a cite. However, there are plenty of others, some of which are listed in the prior discussions

Please also note that discussion along the lines of "it's wrong because I/the Irish/this website says it's wrong" advances the case for removing "St Patty" not one single step forward. These opinons have been voiced before and are still irrelevant. Wikipedia contains what is verifiable, not what is "true". If enough people chose to call it "St Patty", and reliable sources reflect that, then that's what Wikipedia reflects. There is no wrong/right here, it is a simple case of what do people call it? If there are reliable sources that voice the opinion that "St Patty" is a mistake, then that's fine too, the article could and should include it. But these would equally establish that "St Patty" is a common enough name for the day, so would equally verify that it should be listed as an alternative name. Let the reader decide themselves whether it's wrong or right.

The article also has a global perspective, so while the Irish opinion is certainly notable, it is not the only one discussed. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 15:52, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

The question begged here is whether people choose to write "Patty" rather than "Paddy" for any particular reason. In previous years I pointed out that in ordinary speech in North America, the two words rhyme. It is not surprising that North Americans who are unfamiliar with the spelling distinction would make a spelling error. But to suggest, as EscapeOrbit does, that this is a terminological choice does not bear up. In fact, I would like EscapeOrbit to show us some citations where "Patty" is attested as an abbreviation for "Patrick" rather than for "Patricia". This is not an issue of "what people call it". It is an issue of "how people spell it" which is not the same thing. I urge EscapeOrbit to read, with some semblance of open mind, the linguistic discussion given last year. -- Evertype·✆ 16:11, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

No, the question is not begged here. Wikipedia is a written medium. It contains words as they are written. Wikipedia is not the place for editors to indulge in speculative musings over what they think people mean. We've been through your linguistic theories before on this talk page. Whether you are correct or not, they are original research and therefore, irrelevant. I've also listed more than one examples of men called Patrick being known as Patty, but again this is irrelevant. What matters is what the reliable sources say.

Here's a new crop of cites from reliable sources, just from this year alone, to be going on with;

• CBS News "St. Patty's Day celebration packs extra emotion"
• Live Science "While the Irish beer Guinness remains a top St. Patty's Day choice"
• Lincoln Journal Star "St. Patty's Day: Not just green beer — but some of that, too"
• ABC Eyewitness News "100,000 Attend St. Patty's Day Block Party in St. Paul, Booze in Hand "
• CBS News "Pope speaks to journalists; St. Patty's day celebration packs extra emotion for one New Yorker"
• The News Star "Children sport green wheels at St. Patty's parade"
• Fox News "Skinnier ways to enjoy St. Patty's Day"
• The Reporter "Hatfield man is St. Patty’s Day Parade grand marshal"
• Salt Lake Magazine "Celebrate St. Patty's Day: Dining, parties, music and more"
• WRDW TV Augusta "Police prepare to crack down on drunken driving this St. Patty's Day"
• NBC Montana "Missoula family restaurant gets head start feeding St. Patty's day celebrants"
• Minnesota Daily "A St. Paul St. Patty’s Day"

I could go on, and on, but you get the idea. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 16:21, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

And here are two that discuss the "Paddy/Patty" issue, from both sides, illustrating that yes, indeed, many people do call it Patty. Whether they are wrong or right is not Wikipedia's choice to make. Obviously it matters more to those arguing against "Patty", but that doesn't mean those using Patty are wrong.

• Patheos.com "3 Reasons to Welcome the ‘tt’ in St. Patty’s Day"
• Paddy Not Patty

And Patty as a boy's name, not that it makes any difference to the sources' use of it;

• Think Baby Names

--Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 16:38, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

I don't plan on getting into this discussion as it just keeps going around in circles - but I would like to state that the raft of links provided only seem to use the shortening in their titles, and not in the main body of their text; and also that none of them actually address the history and the reasoning behind the spelling. If anything, your raft of links further cements the fact that it is primarily the United States where that specific shortening is used. In addition, while Patty Mills is one example of a male with said name, the raft of pages listed in Special:PrefixIndex/Patty are pages about females named Patricia, a stark contrast to Special:PrefixIndex/Paddy. TheChrisD ^{Rants•Edits} 16:41, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

I don't believe we need a history of the use of "Patty" to verify that "Patty" is used, although of course, it would be nice if we did. I also pointed out above that Wikipedia articles should have a global perspective, so I don't know what difference it makes that it is primarily in the United States. The English language Wikipedia does include the States. I've also explained that it doesn't matter how many males are called "Patty". Verifiability is the key, and we have that in this case. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 21:09, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

Since no-one has explained why "Patty" was removed, when there are a wealth of possible cites supporting its inclusion, can I revert its removal and cite it with another source? --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 20:11, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

Very well, I have reverted what was there by prior consensus and was removed prior to any discussion. I've also added two of the above links as reliably sourced cites. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 19:15, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 18 March 20113

Newfoundland and Labrador - not a stat holiday. ref. http://www.gov.nl.ca/lra/faq/ls_holidays.html. thx. 99.239.233.34 (talk) 00:23, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

Done —KuyaBriBri^Talk 15:53, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

Request for more pictures of monuments illuminated green

Someone please add more pictures of monuments turned green for St, Patrick's Day like the Pyramids, Christ the Redeemer Statue, Trinity College, White House fountain etc. Here are some in Dublin from 2012, there were many more in 2013 I'm not too familiar with editing Feljin J (talk) 13:31, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 18 March 20113

Off-site link at and of page goes to a defunct web site / domain. Pls remove. "The Life, Miracles and Prayers of St. Patrick of Ireland, Patron Saint of Ireland" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.246.195.102 (talk) 23:30, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

Birmingham? Lol.

I sincerely doubt they have the third largest. I would of thought that in GB alone London & Liverpool would be larger - along with cities such as Belfast, Chicago and maybe a few other large US cities. I think the "claim" that it has the third largest is just Brummie's trying to make out that their city is a "global" one when it clearly isn't. London's poor little brother.--92.40.254.168 (talk) 13:02, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

Do you have anything to back up your doubts? --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 14:13, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

"logjam of feasts" (and worse in Ireland in 1940 & 2008)

In 2008, I came across the remark about "logjam of feasts" that would result if Easter fell very early (causing other high-ranking feasts to be transferred that year because they cannot be celebrated during Holy Week or the Easter octave).

It says St. Patrick's (the patronal feast in Ireland) was celebrated in 1940 on April 3, and I see that to be a Wednesday. That year, Easter was March 23. The feasts of St. Joseph (usually March 19) and Annunciation (usually March 25) would have been transferred for that year to April 2 and April 1 respectively. That year had March 17, 19, 25 all falling during Holy Week or Easter octave; same situation happened in 2008, but in 2008 the following was used:

March 14 -- St. Patrick's

March 15 -- St. Joseph's

March 31 -- Annunciation

(i.e. St. Patrick's and St. Joseph's were placed on the closest available days BEFORE Palm Sunday)

(Easter in 2008 was March 23.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.63.16.20 (talk) 22:22, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

Photo - Gweedore, County Donegal

I was just noticing that the photo referenced above is of a parade with Santa Claus and Christmas trees. I wonder if maybe that is not a St. Patrick's Day parade. Could someone please verify? Gweedore, Country Donegal — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.196.138.146 (talk) 13:56, 17 March 2014 (UTC)

Proposal to remove dubious claim that Chatham County GA USA officially recognizes St. Patrick's Day

According to the county's published calendar, St. Patrick's Day is not a holiday

Further, this assertion was the only supporting evidence that "[SPD is] not a legal holiday in most of the United States" [emphasis mine] -- there is no concrete evidence St. Patrick's Day is a legal holiday anywhere in the United States. --216.248.178.206 (talk) 14:53, 17 March 2014 (UTC)

Made the change. Also, more feedback would be welcomed here: Talk:Saint_Patrick's_Day_in_the_United_States#Opening_sentence_is_inaccurate --NeilN ^{talk to me} 15:10, 17 March 2014 (UTC)

Newfoundland and Labrador

The article states that St. Patrick's Day is a public holiday in NL but it's not a public holiday. It's a holiday mostly for the NL public service and NL publicly funded institutions. Nearly everybody else in NL has to work that day. NL has six public holidays. St. Patrick's Day is not one of them:

http://www.gov.nl.ca/lra/faq/ls_holidays.html

It's also not a store closing holiday:

http://www.releases.gov.nl.ca/releases/2013/just/1122n02.htm 142.163.149.142 (talk) 02:03, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

terraria

During saint patrick's day, the sky drops reainbow pieces (Only on the mobile version of terraria). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Annonymus user (talk • contribs) 09:24, 9 October 2014 (UTC)

Orange Saint Patrick's?

Shouldn't this article include dressing in Orange as well? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.90.40.114 (talk) 13:46, 17 March 2014 (UTC)

Maybe you should read Orange Order, Orange walk and Marching season. That's when some people in Northern Ireland wear Orange, not St. Pat's. - CorbieV^☊ 16:42, 17 March 2014 (UTC)

It is correct that a lot of Protestants (Christian non-Catholics) wear Orange on Saint Patrick's Day in America. Green from the Irish flag for Catholic, Orange from the flag for Protestants and White for the peace between the two. This wearing of orange, which even my family sometimes does, in the United States hasssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss nothinggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg at all to do with Northern Ireland factions. Yes, do add in the wearing of orange. [C.L.Cooper Albquerque, NM USA] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.56.115.22 (talk) 15:14, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

I too was surprised that we have no mention of Orange, or the seeming controversy about it in the archived discussions. Here's a link to a recent article about it. [2] — Preceding unsigned comment added by DavidDyck (talk • contribs) 18:02, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

Malta

Can someone add Malta as a location where St. Patrick's Day is celebrated? It is mainly concentrated around the Spinola Bay, St. Julian's area, where a number of Irish Pubs celebrate this feast as a street party. Here's a gif http://giphy.com/gifs/beoriginal-ryanspubmalta-letsmakeitbigger-3osxYa37nNOGt7Wcq4 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lukbut 1 (talk • contribs) 10:16, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

stoped — Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.29.85.62 (talk) 18:12, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 7 external links on Saint Patrick's Day. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

• Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20130328153922/http://kstp.com:80/news/stories/S2966050.shtml?cat=1 to http://kstp.com/news/stories/S2966050.shtml?cat=1
• Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20101122114013/http://www.nidirect.gov.uk:80/index/government-citizens-and-rights/living-in-northern-ireland/bank-holidays.htm at Boldwap.com to http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/index/government-citizens-and-rights/living-in-northern-ireland/bank-holidays.htm
• Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20100307170353/http://www.history.com/topics/st-patricks-day/videos to http://www.history.com/topics/st-patricks-day/videos#green
• Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20060807060038/http://www.historychannel.com:80/exhibits/stpatricksday/?page=history to http://www.historychannel.com/exhibits/stpatricksday/?page=history
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• Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20130518183700/http://journalstar.com:80/entertainment/misc/st-patty-s-day-not-just-green-beer-but-some/article_1a91449b-3666-5363-a249-7d5378ddd713.html to http://journalstar.com/entertainment/misc/st-patty-s-day-not-just-green-beer-but-some/article_1a91449b-3666-5363-a249-7d5378ddd713.html
• Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20130508140202/http://st-patricks-day.com/st_patricks_day_parades_asia_japan.html to http://st-patricks-day.com/st_patricks_day_parades_asia_japan.html

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Orange discussion - March 2016

There's definitely room for the topic of wearing orange on St. Patrick's Day. I agree that the current write-up needs some work, and thought it should be discussed here. For a start, here's some sources I found that discuss orange on the holiday: [3] [4] [5]21:42, 18 March 2016‎ Anupam (talk | contribs)‎ .

Thank you User:Rockypedia for starting this discussion and restoring referenced information about the wearing of the color orange on Saint Patrick's Day. In light of the reference you provided, as well as the multiple references that I provided, I definitely think it's important to add this fact in a prominent position, as was done. Every time color is discussed in the article, green always comes first (e.g. "as well as green or orange attire"). I should note that on this very talk page, there were several requests that material regarding this custom be added; I myself was quite shocked that it was missing. I appreciate User:Asarlaí honoring User:Rockypedia's revert and also do not mind his rewording of one sentence in the article regarding the wearing of the color green and orange. I think it's a good compromise to say "some Protestants" as User:Asarlaí did, and as a result, the version of the article as it stands now should stay. However, I do not think that the subheading "Wearing of the green" is necessary since the content covered under that heading also discusses the wearing of shamrocks, the color orange, as well as Saint Patrick's blue. As a result, I'm going to remove that subheading. The main heading "Celebration and traditions" is sufficient for all the content in that section. I hope this helps. With regards, Anupam^Talk 21:42, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

I wore orange yesterday, as well as green and white, utter misrepresentation of the facts, one source states "Irish Protestants typically wear orange, the other prominent color on the Irish flag", none of the others mention Protestants wear orange, and none of the ones I saw yesterday were wearing anything primarily orange. Another use the orange or blue "don't pinch them". Utterly blowing sources out of context. Murry1975 (talk) 21:52, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

As per WP:BRD, I have reberted until consensus is reached to add or alter this. Murry1975 (talk) 21:59, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

I've never seen or heard of people wearing all-orange on St Patrick's Day, and I've lived in Ireland all my life. Unfortunately, doing it here might be seen as troublemaking and would likely provoke a negative reaction, due to its association with the Orange Order. I'm sure Murry would agree with me on that.

I see there are a few sources for people wearing all-orange on St Patrick's Day, but they aren't good quality sources and they don't show that it's widespread. All of the sources are American, two of them seem to be blogs or online magazines, and one is a self-published source. The Federalist says that wearing orange on St Patrick's Day "is a relatively new phenomenon" and "is not well known". Vox says "Irish Catholics typically wear green (Irish Protestants typically wear orange, the other prominent color on the Irish flag)". However, this could be a reference to Protestants wearing orange on The Twelfth of July. It also mistakenly claims that blue was "the original color of St Patrick's Day". The Bakersfield Californian asks "did you also know orange is a popular color for the Irish holiday?", which again shows that it isn't well known. The articles in the Huffington Post and The Telegraph mention people wearing the colours of the Irish flag, but not orange alone. The other source is a book that a writer has self-published thru the Geneaology Publishing Service, which means it can't be used.

It's fine to mention that some (Irish-American?) Protestants have begun wearing orange on St Patrick's Day. However, there's no evidence that it's widespread enough to be given such prominence. Anupam's version implies that wearing orange is as common as wearing green, which clearly isn't true. I think this version is a fair compromise: it mentions the wearing of orange, but doesn't overplay it. ~Asarlaí 22:36, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

I have to agree, the sources supporting this are weak. It would appear that a small number of people, localised to parts of America, follow this custom. But coverage of it really needs toned down, it doesn't merit anything like equal prominence to green, and would be benefit with a good source that isn't getting extrapolated from.

And yes, it may seem bizarre and kind of thoughtless to most of us, but many localised customs don't make sense to the rest of the planet. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 15:42, 19 March 2016 (UTC)

It seems that consensus favors your version, User:Asarlaí. I would be happy to see you restore that revision you said was a fair compromise. However, would you mind if we moved the sentence about wearing orange right after the sentence that states On St Patrick's Day it is customary to wear shamrocks, as well as green clothing or accessories (known as the "wearing of the green").? I look forward to hearing from you. Thanks for your efforts on this article. With regards, Anupam^Talk 00:02, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

Agree with Anupam on all points - User:Asarlaí's version is a good one, and the sentence should be moved to where Anupam suggests. Rockypedia (talk) 13:55, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

"The sentence" is not supported by the sources. "The first group to take part in the tradition appears to have been the Orange Institution, a Protestant fraternal organization (some might say terrorist organization) more commonly known as the Orange Order. Some members of the order wore orange in various parades on Saint Patrick’s Day as a mark of defiance", the OO wear orange whether they are march in March, July or November. This is the only direct mention of people wearing orange. The Bakersfield article, which is a regional and might fail RS, links to the Huff article that is titled "Why we wear green", which states "In Ireland, some still follow the tradition where Catholics wear green and Protestants wear orange" as pointed out above not a direct reference to Paddys Day. The Telegraph "Some people choose to dress up in the colours of the Irish flag - green, white and orange, or as a leprechaun, while others simply enjoy a traditional Irish stew or a pint of the black stuff" and again "According to Irish tradition, green is the colour of the Catholics and orange is the colour of the Protestants".

So my question is, who wears (just) orange on Paddys Day? Murry1975 (talk) 16:18, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

There does seem to be a lot of extrapolation, reading between the lines and stitching together of sources to construct things, doesn't there? I suspect there may be a notable fact to found here, for a minority of people, who are most likely not in Ireland (despite the references and attributions to them). But we don't have a source that makes that plain, just a lot of hearsay. Do we even have a photo of an example of these people to prove they exist? I'd like to see someone dressed entirely in orange (an equivalent of what you'd see in "wearing of the green") at a St Patrick's Day celebration. Just to show it actually happens. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 16:43, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

Thank you User:Rockypedia for also agreeing to that version. With User:Asarlaí and User:Rockpedia (and now myself) supporting that revision, I think we have consensus to update the article to that revision. User:Murry1975, the sentence is supported by the sources. The Huffington Post article is clearly about St Patrick's Day and states "Some Catholics celebrate St. Patrick’s feast day by going to mass, while other observers of the holiday wear orange and green and eat cabbage and corned beef." Similarly, the Vox article is titled "St. Patrick’s Day traditions, explained" and states that "Irish Catholics typically wear green (Irish Protestants typically wear orange, the other prominent color on the Irish flag)." The Bakersfield Californian is also clear about the issue; the article is titled "Why some people wear green, and others wear orange on St. Patrick's Day" and states "Green became the popular color to wear on St. Patrick’s Day due to Ireland’s nickname “The Emerald Isle” and the green stripe on the Irish flag. But Protestants are known for wearing Orange, the other stripe on the flag. The two colors, representing religious sects, are separated with the white on the flag, symbolizing peace between the two colors, reports The Huffington Post." The Federalist article provided by User:Rockypedia is subtitled "On Saint Patrick’s Day, the color you wear actually depends on your religious affiliation" and that "But for a growing number of people, taking part in the holiday means wearing orange. According to this increasingly popular tradition, Protestants wear orange and leave green attire to Catholics. Thus, the color you wear actually depends on your religious affiliation. While this color tradition is not well known, it has deep roots in Irish history." These references, in addition to the multiple requests above, clearly demonstrate the need to add this fact in the article. It seems that User:Asarlaí agrees with that point but initially disagreed with me on how much weight we should put on this fact. Now that him, as well as User:Rockpedia, agree to a version, that I will support too, I think it's safe to restore the article to that revision. I hope this helps. With regards, Anupam^Talk 16:49, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

User:Escape_Orbit, you can see a photograph in the additional source provided by User:Rockypedia, here. I hope this helps. With regards, Anupam^Talk 16:51, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

That's a photo of someone with the Irish flag draped over his shoulder. Naturally, there's an orange bit. And it's a stock photo; i.e. staged. Also, the writer of this article is Joshua Claybourn. He personally added it to this article 7 years ago, using his own blog as a source. We were again discussing stuff that all linked back to him 6 years ago, and here he is again on another article, another year. Why is it always him? Why the need to tell everyone about what is supposed to be already a tradition?? --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 20:50, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

Consensus has not been reach Anupam, the sources do not support what you want to add. The federalist is not written by a journalist or researcher "Joshua Claybourn is an attorney and author residing in Indiana", who says "Some of us wear orange for a reason." So basically the only ones who, according to the sources given are the OO and "some" including an attorney in Indiana. Nothing else has been established and the reading of the sources to cut and put a reliable overview is poor. Murry1975 (talk) 16:59, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

I don't understand the fight you're putting up against mentioning the color orange. Multiple sources have been cited that connect wearing of orange with St. Patrick's Day. It's true, it's not as common as wearing green. But that doesn't mean that one editor fighting against its inclusion at all should be vetoing the decision to include it in the article. Rockypedia (talk) 17:17, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

I am not fighting for anything, I am discussing. As I have said we have the OO wearing it and an nondescript "some" in a piece by an attorney. The OO ALWAYS wear orange, the hint is in their name, we need more examples of who is wearing orange (not as the sources state orange/white/green) and where. There is not one editor vetoing, there are two who seem very pushy in blowing a relatively small "custom" into a proportionally large role, who are cutting and putting together sources to do so. Murry1975 (talk) 17:41, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

And a quick search in books and the web ain't turning up OO marching in SPD parades. It has to be findable if it happened, I will keep looking. Murry1975 (talk) 21:30, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

I see reliable sources where orange is mentioned as being worn alongside green: [6], [7], [8], [9]. The last one in particular mentions that it's Americans wearing green and orange on the day; that should be noted, of course, as it appears it's more common outside of Ireland than in Ireland. I'd remind everyone involved that this isn't an article written just about St. Patrick's Day in Ireland. Rockypedia (talk) 17:28, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

Your sources talk about people wearing colours of the Irish flag. Naturally this includes orange, and white and green. So it's not really "wearing the orange" in the same manner as "the green". I'm not saying it's wrong, just that it would be a whole lot more convincing if there was photos and actual reports of people specifically wearing orange, rather than a handful of fluff pieces by journalists with suspiciously similar wording. They all talk of people wearing orange for St Patrick's day, but where are they all? --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 19:08, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

Are you suggesting that reliable sources aren't enough to verify that some people wear orange on St. Patrick's Day, and that you need to witness this phenomenon personally? Because that's not how it works here. Rockypedia (talk) 22:42, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

No, that is not what happens here. What happens here is material that can be supported with relevant sources gets added. I would like to remind everyone, that it is what is in the sources that can be used, not cutting and putting things in the sources together.

The Telegraph Some people choose to dress up in the colours of the Irish flag - green, white and orange, or as a leprechaun, while others simply enjoy a traditional Irish stew or a pint of the black stuff. and According to Irish tradition, green is the colour of the Catholics and orange is the colour of the Protestants. On the Irish flag, these colours are separated by white, which is symbolic of peace between the two. Green ribbons and shamrocks are said to have been worn as early as the 17th century. Nothing about people wearing orange as the edits contest.

The Huffington Post (titled "Why We Wear Green") In Ireland, some still follow the tradition where Catholics wear green and Protestants wear orange. These colors are associated with the religious sects and are the represented on the Irish flag; the white on the flag is symbolic of the peace between the two. and On the holiday, people in Ireland do not wear as much green or celebrate quite as wildly as revelers do elsewhere, although there is a legend that wearing green makes you invisible to leprechauns that will pinch you if they can see you. Not a source for the edit either.

THe Bakersfeild Californian "Why some people wear green, and others wear orange on St. Patrick's Day" So, if you see someone wearing orange, or blue, don’t pinch them. They too are celebrating the Irish holiday At last a source except, two things it is a regional paper, possible failing WP:RS and it is linking to and qouting the above Huff article, but what it is quoting is not in the Huff article.

The Fairfeild Mirror Some think of the smiling faces and blurs of green and orange at parades, while others may think of the clinks of Guinness glasses in a crowded bar. and People from all different kinds of ethnic backgrounds will be seen wearing green and orange on Thursday. They may not know it, but rather than showing off Irish colors, they are exemplifying what it means to be American. Neither support the edit on the face of it and again either way it is a regional paper, and it is an opinion entry and might fail [WP:RS]].

Yes orange gets worn, so do outfits of Guinness, colourful mo-hawks and such, but we need a clear source, not what is being presented at the moment. THe OO have Marched in SPD parades, but as I have stated they wear that colour every time, we need a better clear source that says "wearing orange on SPD..." if that is to entered. The other way a mention of the various costumes and customs with sources would be good. Murry1975 (talk) 20:05, 22 March 2016 (UTC)

What I'm saying is the sources are poor, have every appearance of being sourced from one another, and likely stem from a campaign by one individual, who if fact wrote one of those same opinion pieces. I was merely suggesting that some better sources would help your case and even some pictorial evidence that this happens to any extent. Surely, if this was common enough to merit inclusion, then it would be mentioned in dozens of articles as matter of fact, and photos of orange-clad revellers would be easily found? Instead you are relying on a handful of opinion pieces, where it has to be championed and explained to a public that appears to have never heard of it. If it is so little known, then it really doesn't merit inclusion, and listing it alongside "the green" is completely undue. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 21:28, 22 March 2016 (UTC)

I appreciate the healthy discussion here but am unsure of why you feel that the source from The Huffington Post does not qualify--it seems to be very clear about the practice, stating, "Some Catholics celebrate St. Patrick’s feast day by going to mass, while other observers of the holiday wear orange and green and eat cabbage and corned beef." It discusses Protestants wearing orange in the context of Saint Patrick's Day. Furthermore, the source from Vox clearly states: "Originally, the original color of St. Patrick’s Day was blue. But for several reasons, green prevailed. Ireland is often referred to as the Emerald Isle, and its flag displays a green stripe. Irish Catholics typically wear green (Irish Protestants typically wear orange, the other prominent color on the Irish flag)." Adding in one sentence to the article, as User:Asarlaí suggested, is not undue in light of the multiple sources provided here, as well as the many requests listed on this very talk page noting the omission of Protestants wearing orange for this feast day. I hope this helps. With regards, Anupam^Talk 22:23, 22 March 2016 (UTC)

The Huffington Post is a "news aggregator and blog". It is not a newspaper and not a good source, particularly when it is the sole source. This is why the Huffington Post is generally not considered a reliable source. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 11:25, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

I think many editors would disagree with you, as evidenced in this discussion. It would appear that HuffPost is accepted as a reliable source when they're not reprinting someone else's article. I also find it interesting that you cited a blog (not a RS) and Quora (not a RS) when seeking to discredit HuffPost, rather than an actual Wikipedia discussion, which I found with a quick 5-second search. Rockypedia (talk) 14:25, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

My last link was a WP essay. It's interesting how you can pick up different things from the same discussion. The one you linked to, which is the opinion of a handful of editors, appears to me to be mixed. Some appear to find it acceptable, based on the reputation of the journalist. Mark Miller in particular says; "That has been slowly changing as editors are able to demonstrate that some material from HP is original (not repeated from another source) and was written by a journalist accredited in their field and is a straight forward news story and not a blog or opinion piece." The Huffington Post piece you wish to use as a source is uncredited, no indication who wrote it, and is a fluff "did you know" piece, not a straight forward news story.

I wouldn't be overly concerned with using The Huffington Post as a source, but for the fact it is the only half-credible source offered. All the others either refer back to it, don't specifically refer to wearing orange on St Patrick's Day, or are opinion blogs written by the same one guy. That's simply not good enough for something that is supposed to be a common feature of a very popular celebration. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 18:08, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

I'm here because of a request on my talk page. Like I noted there, whether or not The Huffington Post is a WP:Reliable source depends; see WP:Context matters. In some cases, it's fine to use; in other cases, not at all. And then there are the gray areas; because of what Escape Orbit stated in his "18:08, 23 March 2016 (UTC)" post above, I think this a gray area. I'm not sure that The Huffington Post source should be used in this instance, but I don't oppose its use in this instance either. Sorry that I can't be of more help. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 21:19, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

Actually, going by Escape Orbit's "18:08, 23 March 2016 (UTC)" post, I personally wouldn't use The Huffington Post source in this case, at least not as the sole source. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 21:27, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

37.228.227.177 (talk) 03:04, 5 April 2016 (UTC)== More Sources that mention wearing orange on St. Patrick's Day == Book 1

Book 2

News article from 1978

News article from 1991

News article from 1984 Rockypedia (talk) 20:07, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for sharing this sources User:Rockypedia. These sources, in addition to the ones I provided, along with multiple requests above clearly establish the need for the content to be restored in the article. An article from Vox plainly states that "Irish Catholics typically wear green (Irish Protestants typically wear orange, the other prominent color on the Irish flag)." I'm not sure why despite there being a plethora of sources to confirm this fact, one or two users are still objecting to the inclusion of one sentence about Protestants wearing orange on Saint Patrick's Day. I hope that your recent research will help. With regards, Anupam^Talk 21:51, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

Yeah, it seems there's a bunch of evidence that orange is worn by Protestants, and sometimes worn outside of Ireland as part of the Irish flag theme - orange and green being worn together. I personally didn't even know that orange was a Protestant thing, as opposed to green being worn by Catholics, until I got involved in this discussion. The extreme efforts to suppress the mentioning of orange, oddly, seems to reflect the stories of "don't wear orange!" in the many sources. It's almost like it's an anti-Protestant thing. I hope that's not it, but I don't know. Rockypedia (talk) 02:31, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

I'm happy that these sources demonstrate this, although the newspaper ones would get my preference. A sentence could be added to reflect this small scale tradition. It's remains peculiar that, despite claims from observers in America that it was done in Ireland, there is absolutely no sign (or cite) of it now. Perhaps it is a practice that is fading fast with the onslaught of greenery as the celebrations become increasingly less a religious observance.

Incidentally, the "extreme efforts to suppress" you speak of is what is called following Wikipedia policy on reliable sources. Your speculation also borders on a breach of this guideline and would be insulting if it wasn't so ridiculous. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 20:21, 26 March 2016 (UTC)

I always assume good faith until I see evidence that something else is going on. Rockypedia (talk) 10:56, 27 March 2016 (UTC)

I am of the opposite opinion of Escape, the newspapers are regional, and as I pointed out in my objections to such above, might not meet RS, the books would be a better sources, the Jennifer Trainer Thompson one being probably the best, it gives better details than the other one. Murry1975 (talk) 19:46, 27 March 2016 (UTC)

Hmm. Not sure why a less-than-authoritative book should get the call over a newspaper. But I'm not that worried about use of the Thompson one. Of the two books, that one is about the overall topic of traditions, so probably better. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 19:26, 28 March 2016 (UTC)

I understand that wearing orange may or may not be a tradition protestants in America do to celebrate St Patrick's Day, however, this is not the case in Ireland, Northern Ireland, Britain or anywhere else in the world by Irish people (both protestant or Catholic) or their ancestors. Green is the colour for the Island of Ireland by both protestants and catholics and this is evident when you simply review the colours worn by sports teams that represent both Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland, such as the Northern Ireland football team and Republic of Ireland football team. There seems to be some misunderstanding represented by some editors on the issues relating to the colours of the Irish flag and tribal groups in Ireland. The situation is a little more complex than the simplistic scenario being put forward, in that it is not just Catholic versus Protestant, but also Loyalist versus Nationalist, and Unionist versus Republican. Not all catholics are nationalist and/or republican, but rather some may be loyalist, while others may be unionist and it is the same for protestants in that not all are loyalist and/or unionists. Green does stand for Irish Gaelic nationalists, white for peace, and orange for Loyalists of William of Orange (whom later became William III of England after he defeated the Gaelic Irish in support of the English catholic King James II at the Battle of the Boyne. Orange is worn by supporters of William of Orange on the 12th July also called The Twelfth to celebrate the Battle of the Boyne and not St Patrick's Day. It must be noted here, that all Irish rebellions against British rule prior to 1916 were conducted by mainly protestants (and not catholics) who were also nationalists and who fought under a Green flag with no Orange representation. The Irish Tricolour flag which was first flown by Thomas Francis Meagher, an Irish Nationalist, in 1848 as a symbol of Irish unity. This flag was adopted for the 1916 Easter Rising by mainly catholics and later it gained official status as the Flag for the Irish Free State and later the Republic of Ireland. When it is mentioned people wear green and orange on St Patrick's Day, then this would clearly indicate that they are showing solidarity to people of the Republic of Ireland and not as it is suggested to people of the protestant religion. St Patrick's Day is by and large observed mainly today as a national holiday rather than as a religious holiday. It must also be noted that members of the loyalist and/or unionist mind do not accept the Irish flag as an flag representing their communities but rather consider it as a terrorist flag due to its relationship with the above mentioned 1916 Easter Rising. This can be reviewed if you read the wiki article of the Flag of Ireland. Finally, Fáilte Ireland and the Northern Ireland Tourism Board run a joint venture each year to celebrate St Patrick's Day where major monuments around the world light up green and green alone. This includes the London Eye and other UK monuments. I do not think the British Government would deliberately ignore orange on their monuments if it is as suggested above that orange is worn by protestants on St Patrick's Day. Future conflicts relating to this should be reverted to Wikipedia:WikiProject Ireland Collaboration which was set up specifically to resolve issue like this. This should also be added to the top of this talk page. I hope this helps resolve this issue

With regard to major monuments - The Empire State Building was lit in "Orange, white and green in honor of St. Patrick's Day" this year. Rockypedia (talk) 23:17, 1 April 2016 (UTC)

Not getting your point on this laast bit Rocky, sorry, but could you explain a bit clearer. Thanks. Murry1975 (talk) 12:09, 2 April 2016 (UTC)

The previous unsigned post mentioned that "Finally, Fáilte Ireland and the Northern Ireland Tourism Board run a joint venture each year to celebrate St Patrick's Day where major monuments around the world light up green and green alone." I was pointing out a source that explained the Empire State Building (certainly a major monument) was lit up with orange, white, and green, rather than green alone. I also noticed that the previous poster explained what colors are worn in Ireland, and was rather dismissive of what happens in the US on St. Patrick's, as if that doesn't matter; of course, that would be ridiculous, as we're striving to maintain a worldwide view of the topic. Rockypedia (talk) 14:02, 2 April 2016 (UTC)

Sorry I taught it was all your comment, that's why I was confused by what I read lol. Damn drive by posters. Murry1975 (talk) 14:26, 2 April 2016 (UTC)

Hi Rockypedia, you seem to have falsified your own position. Your argument throughout has been that people wear orange for St Patrick's Day without green as a way of showing solidarity to their protestant heritage. I had informed you that it had nothing to do with religion and of the Turning the World Green campaign (See Here) by Fáilte Ireland and the Northern Ireland Tourism Board, whereby you pointed out the Empire State Building was lit in Orange White and Green. While you are correct the source does state this, however, the Empire State Building for St Patrick's Day was lit Green with the Republic of Ireland's flag (Green White Orange) at the centre (See Here and Here). Secondly, while orange was present, it wasn't as you had been arguing on its own but rather as part of the Republic of Ireland's flag. By having Green White and Orange at the centre and surrounded by Green, it was clearly indicating solidarity to the people of the Republic of Ireland. BTW It should be noted that Orange White and Green is the flag for the Ivory Coast and not Ireland.

In regards to your second point, where you argue: "I also noticed that the previous poster explained what colors are worn in Ireland, and was rather dismissive of what happens in the US on St. Patrick's, as if that doesn't matter; of course, that would be ridiculous, as we're striving to maintain a worldwide view of the topic." Now you are sounding very silly and juvenile. Firstly I had pointed out green was the colour that represents Ireland and people around the world (and not just Ireland) wear green on St Patrick's Day, as you can see from Here and Here and Here. I had not been dismissive of the US. As you can see from many of the pictures i provided and If you see the New York St Patrick's Day parade Journal (here) you will notice some pictures where people wear green and when you get to the section dealing with the "line of the march" for the parade, you will notice the all the headlines and some of the writing is in green. There is no orange, other than when it is with green and white, therefore representing the Republic of Ireland's flag. Notice also the images of the monuments around the world (see here and here ) include some US images. See also ABC's footage Here and the dying of the river in Chicago Here, where green is clearly the colour for St Patrick's Day. While you are correct that we're trying to maintain a worldwide view of the topic (and that includes across Europe, Asia, Africa, and Australia), however that is not to the expense of the quality of the article. By adding that orange is worn as a standalone colour on St Patrick's Day would clearly be a violation of WP:UNDUE which clearly states:

"If a viewpoint is in the majority, then it should be easy to substantiate it with reference to commonly accepted reference texts;

If a viewpoint is held by a significant minority, then it should be easy to name prominent adherents;

If a viewpoint is held by an extremely small (or vastly limited) minority, it does not belong on Wikipedia, regardless of whether it is true or you can prove it, except perhaps in some ancillary article".

As I have pointed out even in the US the view is that green is the colour for St Patrick's Day (hence the popular song by The Script, Paint the Town Green (see Here)) unless it is accompanied with white and orange therefore representing the Republic of Ireland's flag. The view you have that orange may be worn as a standalone colour is a viewpoint that is held by an extremely small and vastly limited minority and therefore according to Wikipedia rules relating to undue weight, does not belong on Wikipedia, regardless of whether it is true or you can prove it except in some ancillary article, in other words in a see also article.

There's so much nonsense in this that I don't even know where to start - but then I noticed it's a drive-by anon IP poster and I don't have the energy to refute the numerous incorrect statements in this diatribe, when I don't even know if the same person will be back to read it. I'm going to add appropriate mentions of orange based on the numerous reliable sources that we've discussed and accepted here, eventually. If anyone has a problem with it, we can start another more rational discussion, but reading some anon IP saying to me "Your argument throughout has been that people wear orange for St Patrick's Day without green as a way of showing solidarity to their protestant heritage" is such complete bullshit that that I've really had it at this point. I have half a mind to strikethrough that myself, just based on the fact that it's completely made up. Rockypedia (talk) 14:34, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

Stop squirming and attacking people. There is no sense becoming aggressive and using vicious ad hominem attacks on me or any other editor that provide reputable evidence that robustly refutes your argument. I and other editors have tried to be polite and accommodating to you but the tactics you have used are not on. Rockypedia your actions have all the hallmarks of WP:POV RAILROAD in order to push your agenda. You have wrote on a number of occasions that people wear orange when they are protestant and green when they are catholic and you have pointed to the Irish flag for this reasoning. For instance in your 13:55, 20 March 2016 (UTC) submission you argued "Today, some Irish Protestants instead wear orange on St Patrick's Day; the Flag of Ireland has an orange stripe representing the Protestant community"should be inserted, despite many editors including me pointing out no Irish protestant wears orange alone on St Patrick's Day. That they wear orange as part of the Orange Order on the 12th July, also called The Twelfth, in celebration of the Battle of the Boyne which was fought between William of Orange (whom later became William III of England after he defeated the Gaelic Irish in support of the English catholic King James II. It was also pointed out that the colours of the Flag of Ireland had nothing to do with religion but rather an attempt of unity with Gaelic nationalists as represented as green and loyalists of William of orange represented with orange and white as peace between the two factions. I added that you could view sports teams in Northern Ireland and Republic of Ireland, such as the Northern Ireland national football team and the Republic of Ireland national football team as a simple way to get the point across green is the colour that represents Ireland. Incidentally you might look at the Netherlands national football team as orange is their national colour and this is because of the House of Orange which William of Orange was a member of. So orange has more to do with being Dutch than it does being Irish.

You later write in your 17:17, 20 March 2016 (UTC) submission that "Multiple sources have been cited that connect wearing of orange with St. Patrick's Day" and in your 17:28, 21 March 2016 (UTC) submission "that it's Americans wearing green and orange on the day; that should be noted, of course, as it appears it's more common outside of Ireland than in Ireland". so now you have changed tactics slightly and are now saying it happens more in the US than Ireland. When it is pointed out to you that the sources you provided are mostly blogs regional magazines and so on and therefore not reliable sources, you try to bring in another editor from another site to support you (see Here), However she disagrees with you in her 21:27, 23 March 2016 (UTC) submission. You added similar material in a new section in your 20:07, 23 March 2016 (UTC) submission and wrote in your 02:31, 25 March 2016 (UTC) submission "Yeah, it seems there's a bunch of evidence that orange is worn by Protestants, and sometimes worn outside of Ireland as part of the Irish flag theme - orange and green being worn together. I personally didn't even know that orange was a Protestant thing, as opposed to green being worn by Catholics, until I got involved in this discussion." Not only have you reverted back to your original statement that Protestants wore orange and Catholics wore green on St Patrick's Day but you are now writing it is sometimes worn outside of Ireland where before you were writing "as it appears it's more common outside of Ireland than in Ireland". Also you have returned back to the "as part of the Irish Flag theme" , despite you not offering one reference or source that verifies it occurring in Ireland and despite many editors already pointing out that it has nothing to do with the Irish flag as green is the national colour of Ireland, that is the only colour worn on St Patrick's Day unless it is with white and orange therefore displaying the Republic of Ireland flag.

However it doesn't end here, in this same submission 02:31, 25 March 2016 (UTC), you go on the rampage against editors by writing "The extreme efforts to suppress the mentioning of orange, oddly, seems to reflect the stories of "don't wear orange!" in the many sources. It's almost like it's an anti-Protestant thing. I hope that's not it, but I don't" which another editor had to remind you such an accusation borders on a breach of this guideline. You then make an erroneous accusation against me in your 14:02, 2 April 2016 (UTC) submission by writing "I also noticed that the previous poster explained what colors are worn in Ireland, and was rather dismissive of what happens in the US on St. Patrick's, as if that doesn't matter; of course, that would be ridiculous, as we're striving to maintain a worldwide view of the topic", when in fact I had did no such thing. So just to reiterate and clarify any misinterpretations you may have had from my submission, I supplied ample evidence of St Patrick's Day celebrations including Parades from reputable sources and from national and international news sources including images and video footage including from the US Ireland and many other countries around the world that debunk your argument of people wearing orange as a standalone colour for St Patrick's Day and because they are Protestant. I then informed you that wearing orange for St Patrick's Day was obviously not as widespread as you thought and was clearly an extremely small minority that did it, even in the US as most sources showed and spoke about people wearing green alone or green white and orange representing the Irish flag and therefore I informed you that adding orange as a standalone colour for St Patrick's Day would violate WP:UNDUE which clearly states:

"If a viewpoint is in the majority, then it should be easy to substantiate it with reference to commonly accepted reference texts;

If a viewpoint is held by a significant minority, then it should be easy to name prominent adherents;

If a viewpoint is held by an extremely small (or vastly limited) minority, it does not belong on Wikipedia, regardless of whether it is true or you can prove it, except perhaps in some ancillary article".

However you clearly go into a rage at this evidence being presented and in your 14:34, 4 April 2016 (UTC) submission you attack and try to discredit me by writing "There's so much nonsense in this that I don't even know where to start - but then I noticed it's a drive-by anon IP poster and I don't have the energy to refute the numerous incorrect statements in this diatribe, when I don't even know if the same person will be back to read it'' and "but reading some anon IP saying to me "Your argument throughout has been that people wear orange for St Patrick's Day without green as a way of showing solidarity to their protestant heritage" is such complete bullshit that that I've really had it at this point. I have half a mind to strikethrough that myself, just based on the fact that it's completely made up" However, I provided all your responses above which clearly state that this was and still is your position. The reason you can't refute the evidence I presented is because the evidence is overwhelming. When you have been asked to supply reliable sources that are not personal experiences or blogs or regional articles and so on you could not, nor could you supply an image of a person wearing orange as a standalone colour for St Patrick's Day, but yet you seem to think you are in the position to tell many editors, including those from Ireland that they don't know what the Irish flag means and what colours are worn on St Patrick's Day. For the record while Wikipedia recommend people to sign up to a user account, it is not a requirement. Wikipedia does not tolerate Second-class treatment for IP address editors as they argue that the contributions can be just as good as those with user accounts. ". When you add "I'm going to add appropriate mentions of orange based on the numerous reliable sources that we've discussed and accepted here, eventually." you are clearly displaying tendencies of WP:POV RAILROAD which I stated above. This argument on the colour of orange has been argued many times before (See Here) but still to this day there has been no reliable sources provided and therefore by adding this then you would committing vandalism, not to mention undue weight. I did find an article that makes the same argument that you have made over and over again but it is an unreliable source (See Here). It's an old article about the controversy of the LGBT community been not allowed to participate in the St Patrick's Day parade in New York whereby it argues support for the orange order amongst other things. However if they had done their research they would have noted that the orange order is not just anti-Irish, but also anti-LGBT (See Here), and anti-Same Sex Marriage (see Here), amongst other things. However Wikipedia is not a forum so I have said enough.

I have no interest in responding to an anonymous unsigned post which may or may not be a registered editor that's already posting here, and is posting attacks and half-truths in a ranting rambling effort to make me look like something I'm not. Good day. Rockypedia (talk) 17:42, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

I don't need to make you look like anything at all, you're doing fine all by yourself. Anyone can just look at your previous submissions to see what you have been doing.

Uninformative

This line should be deleted, revised, or clarified: "Saint Patrick's Day is celebrated in more countries than any other national festival.[12]" The term "national festival" is hot-linked to the Wikipedia article "National day". If "national festival" refers to a "national day", then obviously any national day is celebrated in only one country. If the term "national festival" means something else, then what does it mean? As it stands, this sentence is a bunch of nonsense. StanstedNous (talk) 17:52, 17 March 2017 (UTC)StanstedNous

Discrepancy "Patrick's efforts against the druids" What specifically were these efforts. Drive out is not a detailed answer. They were obviously not actual snakes

"Patrick's efforts against the druids were eventually turned into an allegory in which he drove "snakes" out of Ireland (Ireland never had any snakes)." If an allegory is made because of this "Effort" why are we not plainly defining what that "effort" was without the metaphors. What does this refer? Why is he famous for it? Why are you not publishing the information? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 47.19.83.58 (talk) 18:14, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

St. Patty's Day

Hello there I am a first time user of trying to edit a wiki page but I am not able to do it on a certain page. I was born and raised in Ireland and I love my country but it is infuriating when I see my national holiday of St Patrick's Day or what it is referred to here as St Paddy's Day being called St. Pattys Day. The name Paddy comes from the Irish Padraig. I would highly appreciate it if you could remove 'St. Patty's Day from the wiki page please as I find it very offensive. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Swampfire89 (talk • contribs) 21:22, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

If you get offended by what you read, stop reading, if not read the previous discussions. Murry1975 (talk) 22:35, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

The "Also called" is not accurate. Including this on the actual wikipedia page perpetuates that some how calling it "Pattys Day" is accurate. The citations/references for "Pattys Day" are errors and you'll notice that these errors, calling it pattys day, only occur in North America. As a compromise I would suggest a section or paragraph that explains the Pattys day mix up. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.248.125.70 (talk) 09:04, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

There are no cite errors in the infobox and no "mix up". "St. Patty's Day" is a recognized colloquialism in the English speaking world. Here are more sources: [10], [11]. --NeilN ^{talk to me} 13:38, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

This is why I'm glad we have this article protected. Would-be editors come out of the woodwork as the holiday approaches with the intent to have it their way. I, for one, appreciate discussing issues on the talk page before an edit war rather than after. Chris Troutman (talk) 13:59, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

This is discussed almost every year. Fact is that some, mainly American, call it St Patty's Day. Others, mainly Irish, really don't like this. Wikipedia is not here to determine who is correct, and who is wrong. Or even to decide that there's such a thing as being wrong. It's here to reflect what reliable sources say. And some of those call it St Patty's Day.

If you can find some good sources that discuss the derivations, then that would be great. But until then.... Frankly, if we go down that route, we could just as well decide that Patrick is just as wrong as Patty, because it's really Pádraig. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 19:57, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

This defence is such nonsense! And as for the suggestion that Patty it is common in the "English-speaking world" what the writer means in the AMERICAN English-speaking COUNTRY! The simple reason for the American use of Patty is the similarity of "T" and "D" as pronounced by Americans in the middle of words - both come out as a "soft D" (think of the American pronunciation of Butter and Bottle). I find it arrogant in the extreme that yet again in Wikipedia editors allow the American world-view to be dominant, even in an article about a non-American saint! --621PWC (talk) 20:32, 14 March 2014 (UTC)

You miss the point. We don't care who or why - the fact remains the colloquialism exists. Your last sentence is laughable exaggeration considering there is one appearance of "Patty" in the entire article. --NeilN ^{talk to me} 20:51, 14 March 2014 (UTC)

I am not known as as strong defender of all things American, but one doesn't have to be to acknowledge that a fair few Americans call this now virtually global event St Patty's Day. HiLo48 (talk) 21:07, 14 March 2014 (UTC)

And, outside Ireland, mostly secular event. --NeilN ^{talk to me} 21:10, 14 March 2014 (UTC)

I am Irish, the Patty's Day doesnt sit right with me, but I see it in articles I read and hear it in programmes and I have no logical reason to dispute its use here, so the opposite happens, I dont like it but its factual and has its place here. Murry1975 (talk) 22:50, 14 March 2014 (UTC)

Agreed. I don't care much for it either, and can understand why it might annoy the Irish. But my feelings, and those of the Irish, don't trump Wikipedia's responsibility to reflect its use. I'd fully be supportive of any cited content that addressed the issue in a sensible and serious way, but all sources that have been suggested so far have been little better than forum rants. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 18:15, 15 March 2014 (UTC)

Also agreed. We need a rule that "I find it offensive" can be automatically dismissed as a reason to change or remove anything. --Nicknack009 (talk) 22:15, 16 March 2014 (UTC)

A true encyclopedia does not willingly perpetuate mistakes - irrespective of how often that mistake is made. Moon landing conspiracy theories, for example, have their own section on Wikipedia rather than being given equal credence in the main article. If "Patty" was given as an example in a section about pronunciation corruptions, then there would be no issue. Here is one of many sources on this subject: Independent (newspaper) UK--621PWC (talk) 21:34, 15 March 2014 (UTC)

Well then given that name wasnt Patrick, it more than likely was Maewyn Succat as we are not going to perpetuate mistakes, we should title the article Saint Maewyn Succat's Day and remove all mentions of St. Patrick on wiki and replace them with Maewyn Succat then. Er, no lets go with what sources say and give a world view. Murry1975 (talk) 22:18, 15 March 2014 (UTC)

Sorry, but he was absolutely not called "Maewyn Succat", no matter how many ill-informed websites say so. An 7th century Latin document, which is not considered historically reliable, lists a number of names he's alleged to have borne, and they include "Magonus" and "Succetus", among others. An early Irish life Gaelicises these to "Maun" and "Succat". "Maewyn" appears to be a modern attempt either to prettify "Maun" or to make it look more pseudo-Welsh. The only name he calls himself in his authentic writings is Patricius, and both his father and his grandfather had Roman/Latin names, so there's no reason he wouldn't have borne a Roman/Latin name himself. --Nicknack009 (talk) 22:09, 16 March 2014 (UTC)

Im deleting the Patty day reference on the grounds that its an Irish national holiday and nobody in Ireland calls it that! If people around the world called the American Independence day June 5th it wouldnt be just another acceptable version of the holiday's name it would just be those people being ignorant and wrong.This is enough of an issue that Dublin airport has made an official announcement telling tourist to stop saying that because its wrong, sounds stupid and is insulting! It's our national holiday we decide what its called! If you say Patty's day you are just wrong and you aren't helping to dispel the idea that American's are ignorant idiots. http://www.thejournal.ie/dublin-airport-pattys-day-1357648-Mar2014/?r_dir_d=1 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.126.25.46 (talk) 23:17, 15 March 2014 (UTC)

As this isn't the Irish Wikipedia or the "ignore non-Irish sources" Wikipedia (Canadian source, Australian source), no, you don't get to decide what colloquialisms are listed. --NeilN ^{talk to me} 03:06, 16 March 2014 (UTC)

This in not American Wikipedia, but English Language Wikipedia. Just because a misnomer is common in America does not mean it warrants inclusion in the infobox. The misnomer is common enough in America that it deserves mention in the United States section (hence [12]), but putting it in the infobox is undue weight. - CorbieV^☊ 21:33, 16 March 2014 (UTC)

Why do you believe that has undue weight and not "Feast of Saint Patrick" or "Lá Fheile Pádraig"? --NeilN ^{talk to me} 23:25, 16 March 2014 (UTC)

What about saying "St Patty's Day (esp. in US)"? It seems to be the consensus here that that is the case. Scolaire (talk) 23:47, 16 March 2014 (UTC)

(outside of Ireland) is probably more accurate if we must have something as I found ample Canadian and Australian sources who use it. --NeilN ^{talk to me} 00:14, 17 March 2014 (UTC)

How about (common outside Ireland and the UK) or is that entering the OR regions? Murry1975 (talk) 10:14, 17 March 2014 (UTC)

It's entering splattering-the-infobox-across-the-whole-page regions. My suggestion was for the addition of 12 characters, which would keep the thing on one line. More charaters than that, and you have not only the objectionable nickname but a very unsightly explanatory note. An alternative would be to have a footnote (of the group kind), saying something like "used only in places such as the United States, Canada and Australia". Also, the citations ought to go. If this is content that needs to be cited, it should be in the body of the article, and referenced there. Scolaire (talk) 10:56, 17 March 2014 (UTC)

I've reverted what you did there Scolaire. I understand what you were trying to do, but Wikipedia cannot decide where this is "only" used without an reliable source stating that. Currently we can demonstrate examples of its use in some countries, but that's not the same as stating they are unique to those countries. I'm sure I found examples of the Japanese referring to Patty. Most probably taking their lead from the Americans, but who knows? --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 18:33, 23 March 2014 (UTC)

I agree with this revert as adding the note was inconsistent. Is Lá Fheile Pádraig used anywhere outside of Ireland? --NeilN ^{talk to me} 20:40, 23 March 2014 (UTC)

• Lest there be any doubt of the term's popularity, there is little difference in comparison.
   — Berean Hunter (talk) 00:04, 3 September 2014 (UTC)

For the love of Christ can we get rid of the "Patty's" Day piece? We are not celebrating burger patties here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 107.188.49.125 (talk) 22:01, 17 March 2015 (UTC) Who ever said it is an abbreviation for Saint Patrick's day duh learn your abbreviations.

The word "Patty" can have more that one meaning in more than one context. This article is not about Paddy fields either. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 15:29, 18 March 2015 (UTC)

There was a perfectly good proposal (above) to add a note indicating that Patty is an American colloquialism. That idea should be actioned, despite the vociferous objections of one editor. He may well be able to find references (as he suggests) relating to other non-Irish and non-British locations, but we all know perfectly well that this is principally an American aberration. As this article in The Independent states in its conclusion, this is largely an American error (or, as the article puts it, "Americans are the worst offenders"). Timothy Titus ^{Talk To TT} 16:38, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

Your description of the "aberration" and "error" suggests that your approach here is not exactly neutral. If you want to add a qualification to the facts on the article, you need to find a cite to support your claim. And a good cite, please. An opinion fluff piece in a newspaper, discussing what is essentially a publicity stunt by a marketing agency, unsupported by any evidence, doesn't really cut it. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 17:29, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

I wanted to bring up this discussion once more, before I make any changes, because it is clear this is a violently divisive issue. Since St. Patty's Day is technically an error, but is still used in reliable sources, it can be included in the infobox under "also called", but there should be a note indicating that the usage is erroneous. Are there any objections to the addition of a note such as this? Voyaging^talk 03:37, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

I would also like to add my voice to this argument. I agree that Wikipedia should present itself as a neutral source, and since mentions of "St Patty's Day" are very high, as shown by a previous contributor, it should be included in the info box.

On the other hand, it is generally accepted that the term is an Americanism. A cursory glance over various sources confirms the sentiment 1 2 3 4 and 5, and a look at geographical search data confirms the fact (for comparison of numbers, the US population is 50x larger than Ireland's, and Canada is 5.5x larger). This is clearly a culturally sensitive issue, as some or most Irish people claim that the name is an insult to someone who is, to be fair, one of the most important figures for their country. However, Wikpedia policy is to not remove offensive or controversial content 1 2, supporting that the name should stay in the infobox.

It is clear that "St Patty's" is (historically/etymologically speaking) a misnomer in much the same way that several turns of phrase are commonly misused but still known to be wrong (for example, "I would of done it"). I think that, as previous posters mentioned, a section should be added to the article discussing the divergence in the name. At the very least, I think it would be an interesting topic for the uninformed. Those wondering why "St Patty's" exists can discover that/why/how it is common in the US, and those wondering why some people don't like the term can likewise learn the etymology of the word. Lethay (talk) 09:03, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

This seems to be the best solution I'd say, since it would also highlight the differing views on the issue that seem to come up. Hasaan5 (talk) 16:42, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

I've suggested this in the past, but there were no sources to be found that approached the subject in any kind of serious manner. They were all either rants or flippant fluff of no substance. No studies of any credibility. But I'd fully support any addition that could find good sources. It could equally explore how the Latin "Patricius", the Romano-British man's actual name, became "Pádraig" and hence "Paddy". Thus demonstrating that "Patty" is just another modification in spelling/pronunciation in a history of adaptations. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 17:34, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

There should definitely be a note that it's incorrect, just because CBS posted an article, and you can find some other mainstream media pieces incorrectly calling it PATTY in Canada and Australia, doesn't mean it's the norm. Guinness still sponsor the vast majority of St. Paddy's Day events in Canada and you won't see "Patty" on any of their documents. You will only see it misspelled by media that don't know any better, and people on Twitter who don't understand that Patty = Patricia. It's unlikely if you surveyed 10,000 men named Patrick that you'd have more than 0.1% saying "yes, I prefer my name being shortened to Patricia which is a girl's name". Additionally the website www.paddynotpatty.com is run by a Canadian. I can see there are one or two main editors here that seem very biased against noting that "Patty" is incorrect, this is not treating this page as encyclopaedic. Please remove your bias, or edit another page.Dobyblue (talk) 21:09, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

I can only reply with what has to be said every year. Wikipedia is not about the truth, it is about what is verifiable. Wikipedia explains what is, not what should be. Some people, mainly American, call it St Patty's Day and that is verifiable. It's Wikipedia's job to mention that. And Guinness are free to do what ever they like, they are not in charge of what is "correct", any more than Wikipedia is. If you have some reliable source that discusses the different pronunciations, then feel free to list them here. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 23:05, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

Criticism

The following statement should be removed or cited. "In recent years, there has been criticism of Saint Patrick's Day celebrations for having become too commercialised and for fostering negative stereotypes of the Irish."23.241.1.225 (talk) 08:25, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

This is in the lead. A statement in the lead does not need to be cited if it is an accurate summary of content in the article body, which is cited. This is a summary of cited content in the criticism section. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 23:11, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

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Orange

The colour orange on Saint Patrick's Day has been discussed many many time before in previous debates. I have removed this from the Wearing Green section. There was no evidence to support it been worn by protestants on St Patrick's Day. Nor was there evidence to suggest that Green stood for Catholics and orange was for Protestants. In fact it was found that the Queen of England and other royal representatives who are the head of the protestant church in Ireland and Britain wore green on St Patrick's Day when presenting shamrocks to the Royal Irish Regiment. It was also established that green is related to the Gaelic tradition in Ireland and not the religion. I would advise to read up on Goídel Glas. Alternatively if you want to have the colour orange in the st Patrick's Day article because it is a thing you do in the United States, then you can try to add it to the Saint Patrick's Day in the United States article as also discussed in previous discussions it is not well practised in other countries especially Ireland. Please see the previous discussions on the the colour orange — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.1.202.203 (talk) 20:17, 12 March 2018 (UTC)

The previous Wiki Discussion on the co;our orange are as follows:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Saint_Patrick%27s_Day/Archive_2#Wearing_Orange

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Saint_Patrick%27s_Day/Archive_2#Proposed_Deletion_of_'Orange'_section

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Saint_Patrick%27s_Day/Archive_2#Edit_war_over_"wearing_orange"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Saint_Patrick%27s_Day/Archive_2#RfC:_Historical/cultural_reasons_for_wearing_orange_on_St._Patrick's_Day,_and_emergent_tradition_--_Notable?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Saint_Patrick%27s_Day/Archive_2#Wearing_Orange,_again

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Saint_Patrick%27s_Day/Archive_3#Orange_Saint_Patrick's?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Saint_Patrick%27s_Day/Archive_3#Orange_discussion_-_March_2016 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.1.202.203 (talk) 20:31, 12 March 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 March 2018

In section 2.1 (wearing green), in the sentence,

"The late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries, seen the re-emergence of Irish cultural symbols, such as the Irish Language, Irish mythology, and the colour green, through the Gaelic Revival and the Irish Literary Revival which served to stir Irish nationalist sentiment. "

after the word "centuries", the comma should be removed and the word "have" should be added. Corrected text would read:

"The late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries have seen the re-emergence of Irish cultural symbols, such as the Irish Language, Irish mythology, and the colour green, through the Gaelic Revival and the Irish Literary Revival which served to stir Irish nationalist sentiment." Laelski (talk) 18:21, 17 March 2018 (UTC)

 Done ~ Amory (u • t • c) 20:20, 17 March 2018 (UTC)

Infobox picture

"St. Patrick's Day in the Morning" postcard

The stained glass Saint Patrick doesn't seem to actually illustrate Saint Patrick's Day (though it is fine for Saint Patrick). I'm suggesting this one, but perhaps someone has a better suggestion? Alexis Jazz (talk) 06:04, 21 July 2018 (UTC)

Discrepancy between historical summation of st. Patrick's death and the entry in the context of the festival?

In the section of st. patrick, there is the assertion that he was buried at up Patrick according to tradition, but in the section reguarding the advent of the festival, it was asserted that the St. was supposed to have been buried there. Is there record of his burial proceedings? If not, should the appertaining be deleted from the festival section?

Goídel Glas, Gaelic Revival and the Irish Literary Revival and Flags of 1916 Easter Rising

I added some information in relation to Goídel Glas, Gaelic Revival and the Irish Literary Revival and Flags of 1916 Easter Rising to show the length and influence of the association of green with Ireland in the midsection of the Wearing Green section, which I think is comprehensive and will avoid future misinterpretations of why green is associated with Ireland. The paragraph reads as follows

The first association of the colour green with Ireland is from the 11th century pseudo-historical book Lebor Gabála Érenn (The Book of the Taking of Ireland), which forms part of the Mythological Cycle in Irish Mythology and describes the story of Goídel Glas who is credited as the eponymous ancestor of the Gaels and creator of the Goidelic languages (Irish, Scottish Gaelic, Manx). In the story Goídel Glas, who was the son of Scota and Niul, was bitten by a snake and was saved from death by Mosses placing his staff on the snakebite. As a reminder of the incident he would retain a green mark that would stay with him and he would lead his people to a land that would be free of snakes. This is emphasized in his name Goídel which was anglicised to the word Gaelic and Glas which is the Irish word for green. The Colour green was further associated with Ireland from the 1640s, when the green harp flag was used by the Irish Catholic Confederation. Green ribbons and shamrocks have been worn on St Patrick's Day since at least the 1680s. The Friendly Brothers of St Patrick, an Irish fraternity founded in about 1750, adopted green as its colour. However, when the Order of St. Patrick—an Anglo-Irish chivalric order—was founded in 1783 it adopted blue as its colour, which led to blue being associated with St Patrick. During the 1790s, green would become associated with Irish nationalism, due to its use by the United Irishmen. This was a republican organisation—led mostly by Protestants but with many Catholic members—who launched a rebellion in 1798 against British rule. The phrase "wearing of the green" comes from a song of the same name, which laments United Irishmen supporters being persecuted for wearing green. The late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries, seen the re-emergence of Irish cultural symbols, such as the Irish Language, Irish mythology, and the colour green, through the Gaelic Revival and the Irish Literary Revival which served to stir Irish nationalist sentiment. The influence of green was more prominently observable in the flags of the 1916 Easter Rising such as the Sunburst Flag, the Starry Plough Banner, and the Proclamation Flag of the Irish Republic which was flown over the General Post Office, Dublin together with the Irish Tricolour. Throughout these centuries, the colour green and its association with St Patrick's Day grew.

References

Global Greening Initiative or Going Green for St Patrick´s Day

In the Celebration and Traditions section it had stated:

Recently, famous landmarks have been lit up in green on St Patrick's Day.

I have updated, expanded, and added the requested citation for this section. It now reads as:

Since 2010, famous landmarks have been lit up in green on St Patrick's Day as part of Tourism Ireland´s "Global Greening Initiative" or "Going Green for St Patrick´s Day". The Sydney Opera House and the Sky Tower in Auckland were the first landmarks to participate and since then over 300 landmarks in fifty countries across the globe have gone green for St Patricks day.

References

British Royals Presenting Irish Guards Shamrocks

In the Section of England it read:

In England, Queen Elizabeth The Queen Mother used to present bowls of shamrock flown over from Ireland to members of the Irish Guards, a regiment in the British Army. The Irish Guards still wear shamrock on this day, flown in from Ireland. The general habit of people of Irish descent wearing a sprig of shamrock on the day was a victim of the Troubles from the late 1960s, now being mostly confined to people attending specific events.

The information is outdated and the sentence that has a citation link is broken. To remedy this I have updated the information and added citations and expanded on the tradition. it now reads as:

In England, the British Royals traditionally present bowls of shamrock to members of the Irish Guards, a regiment in the British Army, following Queen Alexandra introducing the tradition in 1901. Since 2012 the Duchess of Cambridge has presented the bowls of shamrock to the Irish Guards. While female royals are often tasked with presenting the bowls of shamrock, male royals have also undertaking the role, such as King George VI in 1950 to mark the 50th anniversary of the formation of the Irish Guards, and in 2016 the Duke of Cambridge in place of his wife. Fresh Shamrocks are presented to the Irish Guards, regardless of where they are stationed, and are flown in from Ireland.

References

Celebration of St Patrick´s Day byIrish in Britain 1960´s to present

In the England section it read:

The general habit of people of Irish descent wearing a sprig of shamrock on the day was a victim of the Troubles from the late 1960s, now being mostly confined to people attending specific events.

The statement is uncited. I have expanded on it and added the appropriate citations includeing page numbers of the book. It now reads:

While some St Patrick´s Day celebrations could be conducted openly in Britian pre 1960s, this would change following the commencement by the IRA´s bombing campaign on mainland Britain and as a consequence this resulted in a suspicion of all things Irish and those who supported them which led to people of Irish descent wearing a sprig of shamrock on St Patrick´s day in private or attending specific events. Today after many years following the the Good Friday Agreement, people of Irish descent openly wear a sprig of shamrock to celebrate their Irishness.

References

Skyfest

In the Celebrations by region Ireland section, it read:

Skyfest forms the centrepiece of the festival.

The Skyfest was cancelled in 2012. I have updated this statement and provided citations. It now reads:

The Skyfest which ran from 2006 to 2012 when it was cancelled formed the centrepiece of the St Patrick´s festival.

References

Irish government travelling abroad for St Patrick´s Day and Presenting of the Shamrock Ceremony

I added information about Irish Ministers travelling abroad for St Patrick´s Day and the presenting of the Shamrock ceremony between the Taoiseach and the U.S. President. It now reads:

Irish Government Ministers travel abroad on official visits to various countries around the globe to celebrate St Patrick´s Day and promote Ireland. The most prominent of these is the visit of the Irish Taoiseach (Irish Prime Minister) with the U.S. President which happens on or around St Patrick´s Day. Traditionally the Taoiseach presents the U.S. President a Waterford Crystal bowl filled with shamrocks. This tradition began when in 1952, Irish Ambassador to the U.S. John Hearne sent a box of shamrocks to President Harry S. Truman. From then on it became an annual tradition of the Irish ambassador to the U.S. to present the St Patrick´s Day shamrock to an official in the U.S. President´s administraion, although on some occasions the shamrock presentation was made by the Irish Taoiseach to the U.S. President personally in Washington, such as when President Dwight D. Eisenhower met Taoiseach John A. Costello in 1956 and Taoiseach Seán T. O'Kelly in 1959 or when President Ronald Reagan met Taoiseach Garret FitzGerald in 1986 and Taoiseach Charles J. Haughey in 1987. However it was only after the meeting between Taoiseach Albert Reynolds and Preisdent Bill Clinton in 1994 that the presenting of the shamrock ceremony became an annual event for the leaders of both countries for St Patrick´s Day.

References

Corrected Error Seán T. O'Kelly was President of Ireland and not Taoiseach — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.53.29.17 (talk) 17:57, 9 January 2019 (UTC)

Criticisms

Hello,

I just wanted to propose the following addition to the criticisms of St. Patrick's day:

People who identify as Pagan sometimes find this holiday offensive in much the same way that indigenous americans find the idea of Columbus Day offensive. St. Patrick, to them, was "a Christian invader, a missionary who was instrumental in the subjugation of the Irish Isle to the Christian Church (and who, worst of all, wasn’t even Irish)." . Therefore, it can be argued that a holiday celebrating St. Patrick is a celebration of Irish culture being diluted and supplanted by foreign invaders and its original cultural identity being lost.

Xtrepiphany (talk) 23:19, 15 March 2019 (UTC)

References

•  Not done That is user-generated content and is nothing more than an opinion on the Internet. You would need reliable sources. Additionally, not all pagans may feel the same way and therefore it would still likely be undue weight. Moreover, it does not support your point at all because the author states "I don’t celebrate Saint Patrick’s Day. I don’t begrudge those who do, and it doesn’t bother me that a lot of my friends will be drinking green beer and wearing buttons that say “Kiss me, I’m Irish”."
   — Berean Hunter (talk) 17:58, 16 March 2019 (UTC)

Munich

St. Patricks Day in Munich celebrates each year one of the biggest St. Patrick's Day Parade in Europe (more than 50 groups, 1,300 participants, 30,000+ people on the street): https://www.thelocal.de/20190315/where-to-celebrate-st-patricks-day-in-germany 88.215.114.228 (talk) 14:23, 17 March 2019 (UTC)

Sheelah's Day

Was wondering if anyone had suggestions on where/how to mention Sheelah’s Day in the article? -- Willthacheerleader18 (talk) 00:00, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

== Contributing to other St Patrick´s Day language articles that require some assistance ==

In the spirit of the Wikipedia philosophy of sharing knowledge ( Wiki Translate us, H:CNL, WP:ILL, & H:IL), if there is anyone editing this article that can speak another language and has some free time, could you please help by translating this article into that language? There are a number of articles on St Patrick's Day on Wikipedia in languages other than English; however, most of them are stubs. Furthermore, some of the articles contain inaccurate information and/or irrelevant or unrelated information to St Patrick´s Day, and many of them do not have citations to support the statements made. It would be very appreciated.

Additionally there is currently no St Patrick´s Day Wikipedia articles available in the Manx, Scottish Gaelic, and Welsh language versions of Wikipedia (among many other languages) and if someone with the proficient language skills is willing to work on them, it would equally be very much appreciated.

Below is a sample of some of the other languages consisting of a St Patrick´s Day Wikipedia article which you can click to view:

• Afrikaans Version
• Armenian Version
• Basque Version
• Belarusian Version
• Bosnian Version
• Breton Version
• Bulgarian Version
• Catalan Version
• Chinese Version
• Croatian Version
• Czech Version
• Danish Version
• Dutch Version
• Estonian Version
• Finnish Version
• French Version
• Galician Version
• German Version
• Greek Version
• Hebrew Version
• Hindi Version
• Hungarian Version
• Icelandic Version
• Indonesian Version
• Irish Version
• Italian Version
• Japanese Version
• Korean Version
• Lithuanian Version
• Malay Version
• Norwegian Version
• Polish Version
• Portuguese Version
• Russian Version
• Scots Version
• Serbian Version
• Slovakian Version
• Slovenian Version
• Spanish Version
• Swedish Version
• Turkish Version
• Ukrainian Version
• Vietnamese Version

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.54.8.224 (talk) 10:47, 3 March 2020 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:

• Marnie the Dog celebrating St. Patrick's Day.jpg

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 02:51, 8 March 2020 (UTC)

Postponment in 2001 and cancellation in 2020 of St Patrick´s Day parades in Republic of Ireland

Added in the following information in relation to the postponment in 2001 and cancelation in 2020 of the St Patrick´s Day Parades in the Republic of Ireland:

On two occasions, parades across the Republic of Ireland have been cancelled from taking place on St Patrick´s Day, with both years involving health and safety reasons. In 2001, as a precaution to the Foot and Mouth outbreak, St Patrick´s Day celebrations were postponed to May and in 2020, as a consequence to the severity of the Coronavirus (COVID 19) outbreak, the St Patrick´s Day Parade was cancelled outright.

References

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.14.158.253 (talk) 20:28, 9 March 2020 (UTC)

St “party’s” day - offensive

In the also called section why does it have “st patty’s day?” And how do I change this? It’s paddys day as in st paidgraig saying patty is like calling the patron saint of Ireland a girl and is offensive to any Irish person it’s just incorrect and only used by Americans and should not be on here encouraging it. Aifric163 (talk) 09:53, 16 March 2019 (UTC)

"it’s just incorrect and only used by Americans" You cannot know that. HiLo48 (talk) 11:05, 16 March 2019 (UTC)

It's certainly not used by anyone in the UK or Ireland. Barry Wom (talk) 13:22, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

It's also cited by two references that explain that it is incorrect. That's why it's there.--NoSnakesInIreland (talk) 13:01, 16 March 2019 (UTC)

Then surely it should be pointed out that it's incorrect in the article? Barry Wom (talk) 13:22, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

Language evolves because people use it incorrectly. HiLo48 (talk) 17:26, 16 March 2019 (UTC)

If it is "used by Americans" then it should be in this article, because this is all English language speakers' encyclopedia, and this article is about all countries' celebration of St Patrick's day. Wikipedia doesn't decide what's correct, it references what's used.

Apart from that, his name at the time was either the latin Pātricius, or the Old Irish Pátraic. So if anything is "incorrect" (which it isn't) it is the introduction of the 'd' to his name. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 14:54, 17 March 2019 (UTC)

It is a nonsensical and unnecessary abbreviation. It is the worst possible option. If you want brevity and informality then it's "Paddy's Day" otherwise if you are are trying to be respectful then don't abbreviate the name at all: "Saint Patrick's Day".

It is sad that the sources being used as an excuse to keep this nonsense in the article both clearly state that "Patty's" is wrong, that's some self serving circular reasoning. It is bordering on trolling to insist on keep "Patty's" in the article but to fail to actually include the substance of those sources in the the article body and explain that Patty's is considered incorrect. An encyclopedia doesn't ignore the sources that say something is incorrect. Take it out already, or if you continue to insist on keeping it then stop selectively ignoring what the sources tell you and explain it properly, like an encyclopedia should (as User:Barry Wom previously suggested). -- 109.76.144.249 (talk) 03:12, 20 February 2020 (UTC)

Agreed. The two sources claim it is an offensive term. "Also called" does not actually summarize the two sources correctly. If it will be claimed as "also called" it should be noted that it is offensive. ZachMcDowell (talk) 16:32, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

Neither source say it is "offensive". The first is an opinion piece which describes it as "wrong", the second says "Some Irish people reportedly dislike the term". Both sources are discussing the same website, created by one "creative agency", who cannot claim to speak for all Irish. So all we can conclude is that some Irish think it is incorrect.

If you think the differences in naming is notable, and can be cited to reliable sources, then there is nothing to stop a discussion of it being added to the article. What is not acceptable is removing the term completely because some people dislike it. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 19:49, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

The problem now is that the new wording, i.e. "considered incorrect by some Irish", is in itself incorrect. This makes it sound like most Irish don't consider it to be incorrect. But I'd venture that every Irish person considers it incorrect. It's incumbent on an editor to find a counter-example to this claim. The anonymous poster above who claims it's "a nonsensical and unnecessary abbreviation" is, I suspect, Irish themselves.

Here's a blog post (admittedly not suitable as a reference) which sums it up. "We do not call it St PATTY’S Day. EVER. [...] ‘St Patty’s Day’ is widely used in the USA but it is simply considered wrong in Ireland."

What should be acceptable as references are a dictionary.com article calling its usage a "common St. Patrick’s Day mistake" and an article on a FaceBook post from Dublin Airport stating "It is not St. Patty's Day or Patty's Day. Not this year. Not last year. Not ever." The national airport would hardly post this if it didn't represent the opinion of the entire country.

I'm going to go ahead and amend the article. There's a further problem in that it still won't be entirely accurate, as it's considered incorrect in places other than Ireland (the entire UK for a start, and I suspect most places outside of North America). Barry Wom (talk) 15:44, 28 March 2020 (UTC)

First reference of Ireland as Emerald Isle and Green First act by Independent Irish Government to paint Post Boxes Green and small incidents

I added some information related the association of green to Ireland section that adds more insight to the importance of Green to Ireland such as:

Where it reads

The colour green was further associated with Ireland from the 1640s, when the green harp flag was used by the Irish Catholic Confederation.

I added:

James Connolly would later describe this flag. prior to the 1916 Easter Rising, as representing "the scared emblem of Ireland's unconquered soul".

Where it reads:

During the 1790s, green would become associated with Irish nationalism, due to its use by the United Irishmen. This was a republican organisation—led mostly by Protestants but with many Catholic members—who launched a rebellion in 1798 against British rule.

I have added:

Ireland was described as the "the Emerald Isle" for the first time in print in "When Erin First Rose" (1795), a poem by co-founder of the United Irishmen William Drennan, which stresses the historical importance of green to the Irish.

I also added in the timeline:

When Ireland did achieve its independence in 1922, the first act by the new Saorstát Éireann (Irish Free State) government was to order all the post boxes to be painted 'Saorstát green' (as it was described), under the slogan "Green paint for a green people"; in 1924, the government introduced a green Irish passport for Irish citizens, and it would remain this colour until the introduction of the burgundy coloured European Passports in 1985.

References

88.23.130.42 (talk) 15:47, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

Cancellation of 2021 St Patrick's Day Parade in Dublin

I made some changes of the section regarding the cancellation of the St Patrick's Day parade in Dublin to include 2021. It now reads as follows:

The first official, state-sponsored St Patrick's Day parade in Dublin took place in 1931. On three occasions, parades across the Republic of Ireland have been cancelled from taking place on St Patrick's Day, with all years involving health and safety reasons. In 2001, as a precaution to the foot-and-mouth outbreak, St Patrick's Day celebrations were postponed to May and in 2020 and 2021, as a consequence to the severity of the COVID-19 pandemic, the St Patrick's Day Parade was cancelled outright. Organisers of the St Patrick's Day Festival 2021 will instead host virtual events around Ireland on their SPF TV online channel.

References

88.23.130.42 (talk) 15:55, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

Australia and New Zealand St Patrick's Day Information and Celebrations

I added sections on Australia and New Zealand and how they celebrate(d) St Patrick's Day. I also added Oceania (region) as opposed to Australia (continent) as it seems to be more in tune with the way the article is structured. The Section Reads as follows:

Oceania

Australia

St Patrick’s Day is not a national holiday in Australia, although it is celebrated each year across the country’s states and territories. Festivals and parades are often held on weekends around the 17th March in cities such as Sydney, Brisbane, Adelaide, and Melbourne. On occasion, festivals and parades are cancelled. For instance, Melbourne's 2006 and 2007 St Patrick's Day festivals and parades were cancelled due to sporting events (Commonwealth Games and Australian Grand Prix) being booked on and around the planned St Patrick's Day festivals and parades in the city. In Sydney the parade and family day was cancelled in 2016 due to financial problems. However, Brisbane’s St Patrick’s Day parade, which was cancelled at the outbreak of World War II and wasn't revived until 1990, was not called off in 2020 as precaution for the COVID-19 pandemic, in contrast to many other St Patrick's Day parades around the world.

The first mention of St Patrick's Day being celebrated in Australia was in 1795, when Irish convicts and administrators, Catholic and Protestant, in the penal colony came together to celebrate the day as a national holiday, despite a ban against assemblies being in place at the time. This unified day of Irish nationalist observance would soon dissipate over time, with celebrations on St Patrick's Day becoming divisive between religions and social classes, representative more of Australianness than of Irishness and held intermittingly throughout the years. Historian Patrick O'Farrell credits the 1916 Easter Rising in Dublin and Archbishop Daniel Mannix of Melbourne for re-igniting St Patrick's Day celebrations in Australia and reviving the sense of Irishness amongst those with Irish heritage. The organisers of the St Patrick's festivities in the past were, more often than not, the Catholic clergy which often courted controversy. Bishop Patrick Phelan of Sale described in 1921 how the authorities in Victoria had ordered that a Union Jack be flown at the front of the St Patrick's Day parade and following the refusal by Irishmen and Irish-Australians to do so, the authorities paid for an individual to carry the flag at the head of the parade. This individual was later assaulted by two men who were later fined in court.

New Zealand

From 1878 to 1955, St Patrick's Day was recognised as a public holiday in New Zealand, together with St George's Day (England) and St Andrew's Day (Scotland). Auckland attracted many Irish migrants in the 1850s and 1860s, and it was here where some of the earliest St Patrick's Day celebrations took place, which often entailed the hosting of community picnics. However, this rapidly evolved from the late 1860s onwards to include holding parades with pipe bands and marching children wearing green, sporting events, concerts, balls and other social events, where people displayed their Irishness with pride. While St Patrick's Day is no longer recognised as a public holiday, it continues to be celebrated across New Zealand with festivals and parades at weekends on or around the 17th March.

References

88.23.130.42 (talk) 16:12, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

common era vs. Christian dating A.D.

How sick it is to discuss and inform on a Christian saint using the worlds forms of politically correct date terminology — Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.118.161.59 (talk) 05:42, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 13 February 2019 and 3 May 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Jmmonty16.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 08:33, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Citation 18

The fact as stated in the Wikipedia article is not backed up with any integrity in the source. The Wiki article states as a matter of fact that driving out Druids turned into the St Patrick snake myth. The National Geographic article simply focuses on explaining how and why there are no snakes in Ireland. It references some scholarly suggestion that the myth evolved out of crediting St Patrick for Christianization. It gives no sources or elaboration of its own. It is in this context throwaway pop history from a biologist, and does not match what is said in the Wiki article. 2604:2D80:E599:DC00:102D:C824:1501:7B49 (talk) 16:53, 27 January 2022 (UTC)