Talk:Sailor Moon (character)/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

Variations

There was a complaint that the referencing to Usagi sounding like just a little lazy versus Serena sounding like a ditz had no reference. Worry no more, I'm melting my brain with the dub looking for *gasp* cousin references. for Amara and Michelle. (save me!) OK. In the episode where "mini moon" first arrives, Serena says, "Hi, you look like da bomb in those kimonos" *privately screams* *goes off to rant about making the lead character sound like a stereotype of a Valley girl.* "pushing fish all night" Lita just said permanent damage.. and then Serena said I think the damage is done... and ironically I agree... back to subject. "mini breath" in this episode. Next episode there is a fudging of Japanese... "I read it with my imagination" It's nothing but symbols" making Serena look stupid, while Usagi she has some microbe of intelligence just not able to write kanji. In contrast, Neo-Queen Serenity is voiced without modularization in this episode, and without the valley girl dialect, which shows this was a purposeful decision, in contrast to that of the Japanese where the voicing is consistent, with Usagi's voice maybe having a bit more energy (quote from Mitsuishi about revving up for the role). Takoyaki is called popcorn... "Fantastic you're the best cousins in the world" is said by Rini. Second count... "then "oh zip it Rini, they are not your real cousins you already have a complete family." I believe "Oh zip it" doesn't have an equivalent slang expression, ne? "Oh great idea I'm dying for a nice cup of tea" "dying" I believe isn't part of the original translation... My pain will be your pain as I get through this. Pick and choose which part you want to include. --Hitsuji Kinno 05:27, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Also in that episode was another gender-swap as Tamasaburo^? was dubbed female. In the original he was male, even calling himself a "Bishounen Senshi" at the end. -SaturnYoshi ^{THE VOICES} 07:35, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Wow. I didn't remember them doing that with the Japanese writing. I'm honestly appalled. (Take THAT, Japanese-American children! Way to write in bug splats! That's like totally bogus you know!)

Stay tuned for the Stars dub, in which Serena starts saying, "Oh em gee!" --Masamage 09:52, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

I don't know... Can valley girl-speak be any worse than "Moon Cosmic Dream Action"?? -SaturnYoshi ^{THE VOICES} 09:59, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Hee. Now, now--can't be too hard on them for that, not when the original series contains "Starlight Honeymoon Therapy Kiss." XD --Masamage 10:02, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Though Riddle me this Batman is horrid... >.<;; Now I remember why I struck the dub out of my memory and had to take notes. *has evil flashbacks* Gahh... I'll be including that to share the pain/experience information about the dub. I guess this goes with the quotation stuff I want to add later. I'll try to keep it light. Like the "da bomb" kimonos and then add about Neo-Queen Serenity. When they dub Sailor Stars how many times do you think they'll insert something like, "Your cousin is a Sailor Soldier?" or "you have a twin like, sister or something?" *bangs head*. I'm glad to some effect Toei is trying to come to the US (i.e. the reason they aren't allowing the companies in the US to pick up their properties so much anymore... Kodansha is trying to do the same, i.e. the reason that Tokyopop can't continue the license.) but it's still going to be painful with Optimum dubbing and can't pay their voices enough to stay... Note: Valley girl dialect came into being known after "Moon Zappa" talked about it after "Valley Girl".. so is it a sick, sick inside joke? --Hitsuji Kinno 17:07, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Hee hee. "LOL!" says Serena. "Send!" --Masamage

Masamage, I see your "Starlight Honeymoon Therapy Kiss", and raise you a "Go get 'em, Moon Mama!!" (Sailor Moon R movie). -SaturnYoshi ^{THE VOICES} 03:51, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Uh, that's not verbatim. #9 really said "Now do your thing, Moon Mama!" --  Denelson83  06:47, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Really?? Well, it has been a while. Okay... "Now do your thing, Moon Mama!" it is, then. This quote is far worse than "Starlight Honeymoon Therapy Kiss" could ever be. -SaturnYoshi ^{THE VOICES} 07:07, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

I dunno. They're both pretty amazing; it's just that the second one ought to have known better. And as Hitsuji brought up elsewhere, "Riddle me this, Batman" wins, hands down. XD --Masamage 02:56, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Said by Amara, which makes it worse because the VA was stiff as cardboard. I think that beats anything that the manga or anime could come up with. I almost died, and then because I was searching for a line, I had to play it three times. Oh the pain.... --;;--Hitsuji Kinno 02:32, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

I feel your pain. ^_-; Before I got the S series on bilingual DVD, I had them on the dubbed tapes. I actually thought those episodes were cool... Thankfully, I became such a "Japanophile" after watching the subtitled version and now I can't bring myself to go back. But if it's for research... -SaturnYoshi ^{THE VOICES} 03:38, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Either I'm Buggin or you've all become dubbies! (And so have i apparently) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lego3400 (talk • contribs)

Muahahaha. --Masamage 04:34, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Whoa, sorry about the Dead Sea Scrolls thing! I guess my copy-paste attempt failed rather! ^^;; --Masamage 01:23, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Ok Those indents are getting out of hand...i looks like a big \ XD any ways... Once My Good PC is Running Again I can help with the comparison for S (Though someone did make a good side by side comparison of the orginal on youtube (It has orginal subtitles with and dub voices... 2 video feeds and it pauses when there is a difference.)) Oh Speaking of the dub... At least they didn't use Something like this for the oppener (Though that may have been an inprovement--Lego3400: The Sage of Time 03:41, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

You still have hope since it has Sailor Starfighter in it. ^.~ --Hitsuji Kinno 00:10, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

how about in the riddle me this batman episode "ray" spells exams with the x in begining "dont mention the X word in front of serina" lol not only do they mistranslate it they cant even get write in english Sailor cuteness 16:55, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Super Sailor Moon

Should the Super Sailor Moon form get it's own section (it sounds funny saying it) or is there too little notable information on that. While We're at at lets extend this To Chibi-Moon's Super Form. (The other senshi's super forms aren't notable to earn their own section) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lego3400 (talk • contribs)

• I'm not sure that the different forms of Sailor Moon is notable enough for its own section, either. The only real differences are cosmetic. Danny Lilithborne 03:37, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Well, there's info to be listed about why she changes forms; it's always very plot-relevant. The others now have "Senshi forms" paragraphs that cover this; I think Moon's Super form ought to be covered as well. Briefly as possible, of course. --Masamage 03:45, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Pronunciation of Usagi Tsukino's family name

For the family name, Tsukino, the "T" is silent, because the sounds, "su(ス)" and "tsu(ツ)" are exact. --PJ Pete

There are a lot of Japanese students working on this article, and no, tsu and su are pronounced differently. The former is even occasionally romanized as tu. --Masamage 23:24, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

(to PJ Pete) Wrong. There's an article all about this topic. Danny Lilithborne 23:26, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

For real, in the Japanese language, the sounds, si, ti, and tu are officially lacked, and instead of si, you say shi, instead of ti, you say chi, and instead of tu, you say tsu. --PJ Pete

That is true. But you said 'su', not 'tu'. --Masamage

It's also untrue that there's no "ti" sound. It's just written as two letters (てぃ in hiragana and ティ in the more commonly seen katakana). JuJube 00:44, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

My IPA pronunciation of "Tsukino" is [t̆͡sɯ̆ˈkino]. --  Denelson83  00:53, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

The words "Anime" and "Manga"

For the two Japanese words, "anime(アニメ )" means nothing but "animated cartoon", and "manga(マンガ)" refers to "comics". However, it is ILLEGAL to use the words, "anime" and "manga" outside the Japanese language, and if you're speaking, writing, or typing things in English, you should say "animated cartoon", NOT "anime", and you should say "comics", NOT "manga". --PJ Pete

Illeagal.... LOL!!!! Dude your crazy! Lego3400: The Sage of Time 18:56, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Not that I'm against calling them "cartoons", but those are accepted Japanese loanwords now. Illegal? Please. Danny Lilithborne 21:43, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

...Yeah, that's a pretty astonishing claim. --Masamage 23:21, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Not to mention that they can't spell manga in Japanese correctly... *cough* It's not in katakana. I have a feeling this person doesn't know their Japanese too well. Doesn't that make their use "illegal" hmm? --Hitsuji Kinno 04:10, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

If you didn't know the Kanji fo it, it would still be correct to spell it out in Hiragana, right? Also, it should be "illegal" to use words from a language you don't know anything about. -SaturnYoshi ^{THE VOICES} 07:58, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Considering that many English words are borrowed from Latin languages such as Spanish and French, this would be a problem, wouldn't it? Danny Lilithborne 08:17, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

That last bit was only a joke. But my question was a legitimate one. -SaturnYoshi ^{THE VOICES} 08:50, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

...I knew that. ^_^ I'm not going to claim to be any more familiar with Japanese writing than I am, but I'm fairly certain that katakana is used to write foreign loanwords such as "anime". (Dunno about manga, though.) Danny Lilithborne 08:56, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

I looked up "manga" in my Japanese dictionary and it is spelled using Kanji, so Hiragana can be used to spell it out if you do not know what the Kanji characters are. -SaturnYoshi ^{THE VOICES} 10:03, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

dose this meen we are all going to get arrested now lolz Sailor cuteness 18:32, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Okay, kids. Calm down. This debate is, IMO, a little bit silly. "Anime" and "manga" are perfectly good loanwords to use in English. The claim by PJ Pete that they're not legal English words is ridiculous. --  Denelson83  21:50, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

yup, if I can find manga and anime in the Webster English dictionary they're valid English. Kail Ceannai 07:26, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Wow, they actually fixed the definition. Still needs a little more tweaking, but as it stands it's an improvement over the last version. --Hitsuji Kinno 05:46, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

To PJ Pete: Do not edit other user's comments. --Masamage 05:06, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Anime is a actully English in orgin, it is a shorted form of Animation so its a loan word that is a loan word.... (Confuseing ne?)Lego3400: The Sage of Time 20:58, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Just wanted to say that it is true that Anime 「アニメ」　is a loan word. It was coined from the English word "Animation". Everyone knows that Manga translates to "comic" or "cartoon", but to everyone in English speaking languages it just means "Japanese comics", just like anime is known as "Japanese Animation". PJ Pete saying that Anime and Manga are copyrighted words, is not right and he should make sure he knows these things for sure before stating otherwise. Anyways, Manga 「漫画」 initially is written in Kanji, but it can also be written as 「まんが」 and using the katakana characters「マンガ」. This is because no other Japanese words use that combination of characters, the katakana "Manga" is evident in both the Sailor Moon Anime Albums and Media Book sources from Nakayoshi. ""Fighter4luv""" 07:58, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Please adhere to WP:AGF and WP:CIV when talking about other editors. --Masamage 03:44, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Hmm, not to burst your English bubbles, but anime actually comes from "dessin animé" the French word for cartoons. But this is not what this page is about, so I guess the subject should be closed. GodShiru 23:01, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

French and English are both romance languages, so the distinction is pretty irrelevant. It call comes from the Latin word animātus anyway. Also, coming into a three-month dead discussion and saying it should be closed is a little weird. ;P --Masamage ♫ 00:33, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Point taken. :P I'll shut up now GodShiru 23:27, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Heh! Don't shut up too much. ^_^ If you're interested in Sailor Moon we've got a whole project where lots and lots of babbling is needed. --Masamage ♫ 23:29, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

English is a Germanic language, not a Romance language. --  Denelson83  23:43, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Oh! I thought anything with this much Latin influence was a Romance language, including Germanic ones. Looks like they don't overlap, though. Thanks for the correction. --Masamage ♫ 23:47, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

French is the language of Romance :} ♥Fighting for charming Love♥ 23:45, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

The name "Serena Tsukino"

She was called "Serena Tsukino", NOT only in English anime (animated cartoon), she was also called that name in English eiga (film). The Sailor Moon eiga include: Sailor Moon R: The Promise of the Rose, Sailor Moon S: Hearts in Ice, and Sailor Moon SuperS: Black Dream Hole. The word in parentheses is the word that the Japanese word is translated into English. PJ Pete

This is all covered already. ("Anime" is just short for animation. Doesn't matter if it's a TV show or a movie.) --Masamage 05:06, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

The word "anime" does NOT have anything to do with a film or movie, because, the word, "mangaeiga" means either "animated film" or "animated movie". --PJ Pete

So what? The word "cartoon" can mean either a TV show or a movie, which is why we say both that word and a second qualifying word to say which one we mean. Even your example ("manga eiga") is a compound word ("cartoon movie"). --Masamage 22:22, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Well, Sailor Moon and her friends are JUST a cartoon. --PJ Pete

What's your point? --Masamage 00:12, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Congratulations, here's a trophy. Now tell me why you're working so hard for just a cartoon. Danny Lilithborne 05:59, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Anime is just shortened form Animation. they borrowed it from english to discribe all cartoons, and we borrowed it back to discribe cartoons they make. Lego3400: The Sage of Time 23:34, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Template colours

The templates of all the characters in Sailor Moon are in blue. Usagi Tsukino and Chibiusa's templates should be pink, Ami Mizuno's should be blue, Rei Hino's should be red, Makoto Kino's should be green, and Minako Aino's should be orange. --PJ Pete

They actually used to be that way, until the "super hero" infoboxes got redone by their home project. Definitely everyone here agrees with you; we've had it on the to-do list for quite a while to make our own infoboxes and get that color back in. --Masamage 05:06, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

I've even worked out how to have the girls' image colours, once we've worked out what we want in the Sailor Senshi template - I've edited the {{Winx club character}} template to show "theme colours" for the Winx girls in their 'name' bar. (Another user was kind enough to recentre the name text for me... ^^*) - Malkinann 10:27, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

I didn't know that show was Italian... -SaturnYoshi ^{THE VOICES} 03:11, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

I knew that was an Italian cartoon, actually. But I digress. --  Denelson83  03:12, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Here 'ya go, peeps. {{Sailor Moon character}} --  Denelson83  03:23, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Sweeeet! I gave it a go and left some feedback on the template talk page. --Masamage 03:48, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Sailor Moon As Leader

Sailor Moon is not the leader of the Sailor Senshi. Not officially anyway, even though she is the "main" character. The leader of the senshi is Sailor Venus. Check the manga, anime, and even live-action - Sailor Venus is always the actual declared leader. In the manga, for example, in the Dream Arc, when Minako loses her powers, Artemis yells at her about being strong because she is the leader of the Sailor Senshi. In the anime, it's not said often enough, but is definitely mentioned in the Sailor Stars Episode 172 (right before the scene where Pluto/Venus fall off the bridge and Venus uses her chain, Pluto remarks how Sailor Venus is a good leader). I can't think of specific examples from PGSM, but I'm sure they're there. Think of it this way: A group of bodyguards may protect a celebrity, but the celebrity would not be leader, one of the bodyguards would. In fact, I don't believe Sailor Moon (as a soldier) was supposed to exist, at least in the manga. Didn't it say somewhere how she was always meant to be just a princess, but because they needed help (this is the first arc) she had to fight? Anyway, Sailor Venus is the leader, not Sailor Moon, end of story, and I'm editing it.--Freesonwang 03:38, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Sailor Venus is the leader of the four guardian Senshi assigned to protect the princess and future queen (Sailor Moon). Sailor Moon is the leader of the Sailor Team (the 10 Senshi of the Solar System). -SaturnYoshi ^{THE VOICES} 06:39, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Wait a minute. I mean, I don't claim to know everything about Sailor Moon, but at least being a fan I'm interested in where (manga/anime/whatever) it says Sailor Moon is the leader (main protagonist thingy? Yes, but not "leader"), because I am pretty sure it's Sailor Venus for everyone. I had this fight with a friend a couple of years ago, so I might be wrong, but seriously, I would like to know where. --Freesonwang 05:58, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

When Luna gave Sailor Moon the Crescent Moon Wand in the anime, she said it was the symbol of the leader. As we know, Sailor Moon is the only one besides the original Queen Serenity to use that wand. -SaturnYoshi ^{THE VOICES} 07:29, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

True, Though she did leave it in Mars' Care during their break up ploy. Though that was only to keep it safe, and Mars never used it. Also, it got left at D-Point when they got reincarnted (or destroyed, it never really was specifed)--Lego3400: The Sage of Time 13:04, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Sailor Moon was called the leasder in the anime when she got the cresent moon wand. In the manga I don't think it was ever said that she is the leader of the sailor team but Venus is not the leader of all the senshi, only the inner senshi, not the outers who don't have an accual leader(although it seems Uranus is)Yayamaya 04:15, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

I don't dispute that Sailor Venus is the leader of the inner senshi but I agree with the previous user that no one character is considered the leader of the 10 senshi. It's clear in both the anime and manga that the outer senshi don't follow Usagi and have their own agenda in which no one seems to take the lead, and in which they occasionally come into direct conflict with the wishes of the inner senshi; further, in the arc of the manga corresponding to season R of the anime Sailor Pluto tries to kill Moon and Venus in front of the time gate which I think lends to the conclusion that neither of them could be considered to lead Pluto, at any rate... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.113.154.149 (talk)

When the 10 Senshi combine their powers, the result is almost always delivered through Sailor Moon. When lives are at stake, she's the one they seek to protect. When they go through traumatic experiences, they think of her. When they die off and one person is left to fight on, it's always her. When the enemy is defeated, it's by Sailor Moon. When the various groups of Senshi stop fighting and draw together under one person's leadership, it is always, every time, Sailor Moon. --Masamage ♫ 21:34, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

This is likely because she is their princess and the entire point of the senshi is to protect the queen/princess, so obviously they will die before her, think of her during troubled times, etc. It is only every stated that the senshi "must protect the princess," not that they "must protect the leader." There are numerous reasons for all of those examples of her leadership, but none of them make her THE leader of the senshi. Being the most powerful character doesn't make her the leader either, as somebody explained rather clearly in the bodyguard/celebrity example above, and she clearly lacks leadership capabilities.

In the anime it's more ambiguous but my point is that in the manga Sailor Moon is never leader, except maybe when the other characters are captured/die in which case she may assume a temporary leadership... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.113.154.149 (talk) 22:05, 19 April 2007

So are you saying that Venus outranks Moon? In that respect, I don't agree with you. --  Denelson83  22:11, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

It's stated in the manga several times that Venus is the leader of the group. I don't dispute that Sailor Moon is the most powerful or important character, it's just a fact of the manga. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.113.154.149 (talk)

Please sign your comments by typing four tildes (~) after each. This is Wikipedia policy for discussion pages.

Your princess-versus-leader dichotomy is a little silly; royalty is leadership by definition, regardless of anything else. Whatever the case, I don't think this is an issue anymore, as I have changed the text of the article so that it no longer says she is called the leader, which is true, you are correct. All it says now is that she acts as leader, which is also true. --Masamage ♫ 22:52, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm bringing this up again because, it was stated in the manga(english version at least) It was in the first arc in chapter 4Yayamaya

What's "it" in this case? --Masamage ♫ 03:11, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

It is that she is the leader of the Senshi,her leadership was completly confermed in chapter 6 what she gets the cresent moon wand in the manga as well, in chapter 4 Luna refers to her as leader. sorry about that Yayamaya

Ah, I see! A double check at Kurozuki reveals that that's accurate as to the Japanese version, too. It's said over and over again in Act 5. Good find! --Masamage ♫ 18:58, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Scenes

From which epsiode does the scene come from where Usagi looks at Ami and Makato and then turns to Minako, and after Minako says something to her, Usagi talks for a bit, then she starts to cry and moves herself back and forth? --PJ Pete

That's really vague. Could you expand on that a little? -- RattleMan 03:53, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

I think that particular play of events happens in most, if not all, episodes. --Zyppora 16:04, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Swimsuit

Her swimsuit is pink and is based on her. What episode did this come from, when she pulled out a swimsuit from the closet, and fell back and said that they were too small for her? --PJ Pete

I know the answer to this question, but let me ask you something first: why does it matter? Also, please post new sections at the bottom of the talk page. --Masamage 00:12, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

ESM's wings

Is there somewhere in an episode that confirms she can't fly with them? Because in the manga, she could. CaravaggioFan 04:14, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

• In the anime, she only flies in the last two episodes, and it doesn't seem like she uses her wings to do it. Danny Lilithborne 04:32, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
  • And in episode 200, she's not Eternal Sailor Moon. She goes from a winged Princess Serenity form to winged nudity. (Where does she fly in 199? I only briefly glanced through, but I didn't see it.) --Masamage 05:51, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
    • It's been a long time since I've seen Stars. I guess I was hedging my bet a bit. Danny Lilithborne 07:20, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
  • I double checked. Episode 170. When she first gets her permanent upgrade to Eternal Sailor Moon she flies up after Nehelenia. CaravaggioFan 19:24, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

she wasnt useing her wings it was more like floting in the airsailor cuteness-ready for love 17:32, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

First appearance

I left notes in the field about Princess Serenity, Neo-Queen Serenity and Princess Sailor Moon needing first appeances, but what about Super and Eternal Sailor Moon? Should they get their own appearnce notes?(NOTE: Princess Sailor moon is diffent becuse she is esentialy a differnt charcter (what with being possed by the orginal Princess and all) and get an first appearnce note regardless)--Lego3400: The Sage of Time 13:01, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

I think those first appearances should definitely be in prose, rather than in the infobox. I can find them pretty easily. --Masamage 21:14, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

By those do you mean Eternal/Super or all of them?--Lego3400: The Sage of Time 03:58, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Also, Serenity sometimes appeared before Usagi awoke as her, Such as in mamoru's Visons, They are her TRUE first appearance —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Lego3400 (talk • contribs) 13:11, 15 December 2006 (UTC).

All of them. Also, if you'll notice, the prose says "Usagi discovers her identity as a princess..." not "Princess Serenity first appears..." It could probably have both. --Masamage 08:19, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

But the the others have first appearances of both forms listed seperatly (EX: Ami has Ami, Mercury and Dark Mercury listed seperatly in PGSM). Sailor Moon should be treated the same way and WILL be. I'm putting them back. My question was Do we list eternal and super form's first appearance. We are handleing her the same way as the others. if the episodes/acts are wrong... Fix them. Lego3400: The Sage of Time 02:21, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

The other articles are that way because you made them that way. You don't get to claim consensus; I'm the only one who has commented, and I disagree in all cases. It's redundant and cluttery. I at least have the decency not to demand that they "WILL be" the way I want. --Masamage 02:37, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Oy!! Since the article is called "Usagi Tsukino", the infobox should list the first appearences of Usagi Tsukino. All other forms she takes can be summerized in the body of the article. No mess, no clutter, no confusion... -SaturnYoshi ^{THE VOICES} 08:13, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Masamage, having first appearances of every iteration of a character is messy and unnecessary. Danny Lilithborne 08:17, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

I don't think they need to go in the already large infobox. The first appearances would make a very nice table. --Squilibob 12:29, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

I didn't do them all. Some one else beat me to saturn and split hers up... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Lego3400 (talk • contribs) 16:20, 18 December 2006 (UTC).

SaturnYoshi has a good point, but what do we do about characters who appear for the first time in their Senshi forms, and reveal their civilian identities later?

I like the table idea, but I have no idea where it would go in the article. --Masamage 18:35, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Here's an experiment with a table:

First appearances

Form	Manga	Anime	Live-action
Usagi	Act 1	Ep. 1	Act 1
Sailor Moon	Act 1	Ep. 1	Act 1
Princess Serenity	Act 9	Ep. 34	Act 25
Princess Sailor Moon	--	--	Act 36
Neo-Queen Serenity	Act 16	Ep. 68	--
Super Sailor Moon	Act 30	Ep. 111	--
Eternal Sailor Moon	Act 42	Ep. 167	--

...but again, there's the problem of placement. --Masamage 18:45, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

After I stated my comment, I was thinking the same thing. Could the table be put in the "Other forms" section? -SaturnYoshi ^{THE VOICES} 09:07, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

I dunno, I still think it's ugly and unnecessary. Danny Lilithborne 23:33, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

What if we made something like the Publisher and Network fields in the main article? I imagine that somewhere in the article would be a thing that said "Debut", with an option to "show" the table. Could that be done? Would it work? --Masamage

You mean we could hide it similar to the table of contents? -SaturnYoshi ^{THE VOICES} 08:11, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

That's what I want to know. :) --Masamage 2ч1:21, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

There is a way. If anyone can decifer the code in this template, then maybe it could be implemented. -SaturnYoshi ^{THE VOICES} 08:17, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

First appearance

Form	Manga	Anime	Live-action
Usagi	Act 1	Ep. 1	Act 1
Sailor Moon	Act 1	Ep. 1	Act 1
Princess Serenity	Act 9	Ep. 34	Act 25
Princess Sailor Moon	--	--	Act 36
Neo-Queen Serenity	Act 16	Ep. 68	--
Super Sailor Moon	Act 30	Ep. 111	--
Eternal Sailor Moon	Act 42	Ep. 167	--

Okay, it looks like I have successfully pulled apart the code. :) The result is now floating happily at my right. How does it look? The only problem is that the little link currently shows up as "hide" rather than "show", so the first time you click it nothing happens. After that it behaves normally, though. --Masamage 22:24, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

...Huh. Seems to have fixed itself somehow over the last few days. What do you all think? Is there a place for it somewhere in the article? --Masamage 07:04, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Okay, for lack of an uproar, I've test-added it to the article. Uproars are still being accepted. :P --Masamage 04:27, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Any chance we could put it on the other side of the page? Or would it just be easier to flip flop the sides of Serenity's and Eternal's Images —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lego3400 (talk • contribs)

Sure, I'll flop the other images. --Masamage 17:48, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Okay, the table seems to work really well; a high-five to Squilibob for the idea! I would love to start incorporating them into the other bios (replacing the infobox stuff) this weekend. Would anyone object to that? --Masamage 18:40, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Ok Second question, Any way to get to go down into the Serenity section instead of just pushing the whole section (That was why i asked for the image flop, cause i thought it was doing that becuse it was above the image). Also, any chance we can color that grey bar with the characters image Color? Lego3400: The Sage of Time 06:07, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, yes. I put a {{clear}} tag at the bottom specifically so that it would push the section down, because the guidelines on image use advise against squishing the text of an article between two different things. I'm not sure about the color, but it's probably possible. (Might be tacky; I can't decide.) --Masamage 06:21, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Catchphrase?

It doesn't have to have to have its own section, but Sailor Moon's traditional "Tsukini kawatte oshiokiyo"/"In the name of the moon, I will punish you" at least deserves a mention. (please correct me if I got the Japanese phrase wrong, it's been a long while.) IzzyFerret 05:20, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

I think the whole version is something like: "Ai no. Seigi no. Sērā fuku bishōjo senshi. Sērā Mūn! Tsuki ni kawatte, oshioki yo!" My spacing may be a little off... -SaturnYoshi ^{THE VOICES} 07:02, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

A translation would go: "For love, for great justice, the beautiful soldier in a sailor fuku, Sailor Moon! In the name of the moon, I will punish you!" ...(OK, that small word is my own insertion) ^_^ Danny Lilithborne 07:04, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Small correction: it's ai to seigi no, and the translation is "Pretty sailor-suited soldier of love and justice." All one sentence, which is arranged pretty much backwards because it's Japanese. Word by word, leaving the order intact, it's "love and justice 's sailor-suit pretty soldier." --Masamage 20:02, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

I've tried to get this added but nothing came of it. Lets try againLego3400: The Sage of Time 16:49, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

"though it is unknown whether she can become Sailor Moon anymore"

This isn't entirely true. In the manga (I don't remeber what act) Neo-Queen Serenity states that she has lost all of her power as a Sailor Scout. She said she couldn't keep a strong heart. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ggctuk (talk • contribs) 10:05, 16 January 2007 (UTC).

Huh. We'd definitely need the ref on that. --Masamage 17:36, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

In the re-relece of the manga it was said in book 5.Yayamaya 04:19, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

In the original she says "After I became Neo-Queen Selenity, I almost completely lost my ability to fight as a soldier." I think the 'almost' is pretty important... --Masamage 17:50, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

PGSM image

I've been noticing how immensely grumpy the Usagi in our current PGSM image looks, and it seems kind of incongruous given her personality. Would anyone disagree with replacing it with a perkier one? Any specific ideas? --Masamage 08:00, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

I thought she looked focussed... I don't mind, as long as the replaced version isn't timestamped, and shows Usagi's black hair. -Malkinann 21:26, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Can do! I'll see what I can find. --Masamage 22:04, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

I found a happy one and uploaded it into that spot. Look okay? --Masamage 23:07, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Looks good.  :) -Malkinann 08:36, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Voice

I just saw in the comments that our original source for some of the voicing stuff is a site that's 404ed. If we know the old URL for the site, we can run it through the Internet Archive - www.archive.org - and try to retrieve it that way. -Malkinann 21:26, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

The ones at List of Sailor Moon actors are working. Should we just switch to those? --Masamage 22:04, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Whoops, I meant in the Variations section where we give an analysis of how the voicing changes our perception of the character. There's a comment in that section that reads " Note: The original source for this information was from a website that no longer exists. So we tried our best with referencing the episodes themselves for comparison." -Malkinann 22:08, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

RE: ESM's wings

They don't move but she does float. Episode 170.(1) Lego3400: The Sage of Time 00:35, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

I don't think her wings are anything but ornamental. She could probably do just about anything with that power inside her. --  Denelson83  00:44, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

She flies relatively frequently without them, yeah. --Masamage 01:42, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Images

• An attack image, she's the only one that doesn't have one.
• Neo-Queen Serenity

I think thats all Usagi needs... Unless we want to start adding a PGSM image of the girls in their Sailor Fuku. Lego3400: The Sage of Time 19:12, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Nah, a fuku exists at the PGSM page itself. This should be sufficient. --Masamage 19:27, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

I suggest replacing the first-uniform image we have with this shot, which illustrates her first uniform in addition to showing her attacking. --Masamage 21:17, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

I tryed to look at it but it said

Error 403 - Forbidden

♥Eternal Pink-ready for love♥ 21:25, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

That's just to prevent leeching. Copy the address http://www.soul-hunter.com/sailormoon/images/a_moonhealingescalation3.jpg into your browser to see it. --Masamage 21:27, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

I see it now its a much better picture because it shows her moon healing esclation and the other one look kinda weard ♥Eternal Pink-ready for love♥ 21:30, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

No, that picture is zoomed out too much. You don't see the detail on her uniform. --  Denelson83  21:37, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

But if you zoom in more, you either lose parts of her uniform (boots, etc.) or surpass the low-rez requirement for fair use. --Masamage 21:48, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

I could get one from my dvd (of the same pic) but to would be from DIC so if you can live with the embarisment ♥Eternal Pink-ready for love♥ 21:53, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

'Preciate the offer, but this size is about right for Fair use purposes. Denelson, the only first-uniform attack shot I can find that shows off her outfit better is this one, and her face looks really stupid in it. ^^; --Masamage 03:20, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

she looks confused lolz ♥Eternal Pink-ready for love♥ 19:52, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Profile

Someone needs to add her height to the profile box. Fighter4luv 08:02, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

You mean the info box? No we don't its in the section labeled profile written in prose. ITs not needed--Lego3400: The Sage of Time 17:47, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Exactly so. --Masamage 18:06, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

No worries. Fighter4luv 12:18, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Music Storage

A number of image songs featuring Usagi's character have been released.

From the original anime, sung by Kotono Mitsuishi:

• "Yume Miru Dakeja Dame" (Don't Just Dream) - First series image song for the anime.
• "The Password Is Moon Prism Power Make Up!"
• "Ai no Enaji" (Love Energy) - Second series image song.
• "I am Sailor Moon" - Performed by Kotono Mitsuishi, and later by Peach Hips for the R movie.
• "Ai wo Shinjiteru" (I Believe In Love) - The image song for Sailor Stars.
• "You're Just My Love" - Duet with Mamoru (Tōru Furuya) from In Another Dream.

From the musicals, sung by various actresses:

• Mop, Hop, Step, Jump! "Yume Senshi ~ Ai Eien ni"
• "Omoidashite Anata wo" (Please Remember Yourself)
• Lonely Distance
• I Miss You
• Oitsumerarete ("Pursuing")
• Double Moonlight Romance
• Shadow On My Sweet Memories
• "The Last Change" - Sailor Moon's character song in the musicals, first performed by Miyuki Kanbe in Translvania no Mori.
• "An Evil Dream"

From the live-action series, sung by Miyū Sawai:

• "Over Rainbow Tour"
• "Here We Go"

• She also sung in Sera Myu
  • Gondola no Koibito-tachi
  • Tabidachi
  • Over The Moon
  • You're My Jewelry
  • Tsukiiro no Syndicate
  • Yakusoku no Uta Yayamaya

Profile: in-universe?

I think this section is pretty good at being OOU, actually. Every single paragraph pulls out of the narrative to tell us about how these things were developed, or otherwise mentions that it's all a work of fiction. Thus:

• First para: "As the story begins..."
• Second: "...late into the metaseries."
• Third: "Naoko Takeuchi planned..."
• Fourth: "...named after the family members of the metaseries' creator..."
• Fifth: "She is often portrayed as...."
• Sixth: "...during the series."
• Seventh: "...revealed in a number of connecting episodes..."
• Eighth: "...listed as her hobby in the manga..."
• Paragraphs nine through eleven are composed of non-story facts.

In my opinion, we can safely remove the in-universe tag. Sure the profile could be better, but it does not confuse the line between fantasy and reality. No one could mistake it for anything but a description of a fictional character. --Masamage 05:02, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

The first sentence of the paragraph reads Usagi Tsukino lives as a schoolgirl in 20th century Tokyo. No, she does not live. She is a fictional character. The problem I see is that you think a single word or sentence is enough to declare a paragraph to be "out of universe". In example:

Her journey begins when, while running to school, she sees some neighborhood kids abusing a cat and rescues it. Later, the cat reveals herself as a talking cat named Luna, gives her a magical brooch which helps her transform into Sailor Moon, the "soldier for love and justice", and tells her that she is a Soldier who must fight for peace. She also tells her that she must find the rest of the Soldiers, as well as their princess. Though at first Usagi is a "reluctant heroine" (she often is rescued by Tuxedo Mask) as time goes on she grows more confident and mature. However, she still has her crybaby moments late into the metaseries.

As you can see, just in the end of the paragraph, in the last word, you get insight that the paragraph is an OOU one. And of course nobody would think this is a real character while reading "the cat reveals herself as a talking cat", however if we are sure this is fictional, why don't make that clear? In example:

While the character of Usagi Tsukino is introduced as a reluctant heroine, as the series progresses it grows more confident and mature. During the first episode titled "Crybaby Usagi's Magnificent Transformation," Usagi Tsukino meets a talking cat named Luna, who gives the main character a magical brooch that allows her to transform into Sailor Moon. With this new identity, she must fight for peace and is tasked to find the rest of the soldiers, making up for most of the first season.

As you can see, you expand the summary with small OOU comments that enhance the reading. Note how I could insert the first episode title and that most of the first season is about finding the other soldiers, two OOC facts that give tips to the casual reader about the drama. In an IU summary, you can't say whether you are talking about a single episode or a first season. I am not saying "my" version is better, but I truly believe we can put more OOC stuff that give extra information to the casual readers than just a summary of the character profile. -- ReyBrujo 05:25, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

I did say it could be better. I just don't think it's so awful that it merits a template. --Masamage 06:20, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

From what I have seen here, if you don't have a ugly template in the middle of the article, people won't bother to fix it: registered users are busy with something else, and casual readers won't know there is something wrong with the article. However, if many agree to remove it, I won't oppose. -- ReyBrujo 15:20, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

I made a few minor edits in trouble spots to attempt to get rid of anything remotely IU. I didn't remove the tag, since I didn't really have anything against what was there before and thus don't consider myself a good judge of the change. Torca 07:39, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Well done. I think it's a great improvement. --Masamage 17:31, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Attacks & Powers list

I added the list tag specifically for this aritcle because, although most of the other senshi articles are guilty of it, Miss Tsukino takes up four pages with the stuff. Torca 08:17, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Like everyone else, she'll be converted to prose eventually. --Masamage 17:41, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Usagi Tsukino (Manga)

Most of it's exactly the same, but there may be a couple of things we could move over. -Malkinann 04:00, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

I don't see anything we don't already have, but holy cow, that article's been around a while. I slapped a merge tag on it. If you agree, feel free to replace the whole thing with a redirect. --Masamage 18:09, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Since I'm struggling for stuff to keep myself awake right now, I went ahead and did it. Revert if you disagree. --Masamage 07:47, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Wings

1. ESM's wings replace the bow. They are only attached to her at the waist.
2. The second time she grows functioning wings, I don't think she's Serenity. Her hair lacks the ringlets that Serenity has.

Thats about it.Lego3400: The Sage of Time 01:27, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Attacks

There is only one thing missing.. The fact that after Chibi-Moon appears the two of them combine their powers for attacks. That deffently warents mention Lego3400: The Sage of Time 07:10, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Sure, it could get a general mention. She also teams up with Mamoru on occasion. I'll try and poke that in sometime tomorrow; for now, a few specific attacks have the Chibi Moon combo mentioned in their footnotes. --Masamage ♫ 07:30, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Alias: Sailor Cosmos

Under aliases, it lists her as "Sovereign of Earth" (What is this from? I have never heard her referred to as this. Musical perhaps? I'm not disputing it, just curious..) but notably missing is the alias of Sailor Cosmos. While this is heavily debated there seems to be conclusive evidence on the Sailor Cosmos and Talk:Sailor Cosmos pages that Sailor Cosmos is indeed an incarnation of Tsukino Usagi. Should this alias be included? I say it should; especially to avoid confusion and keep these pages consistant.

• You don't really want to rehash this old debate, do you? JuJube 23:45, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

I thought Sovereign of Earth was in the manga, but doing a Google search within http://www.kurozuki.com isn't getting me any results. Anyone else know there that's from?

As for Sailor Cosmos, I tend to agree, but the conclusiveness of the evidence isn't something everybody agrees on, so we really can't state it as fact without starting a lot of edit wars and arguments. (Actually, people argue about it either way, but you know what I mean.) I think the possibility should be mentioned more clearly at some point when this article gets the rewrite that's coming to it; meanwhile, there is a link to Sailor Cosmos in the "See also" section. --Masamage ♫ 23:46, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

That's what I thought and that's what was discussed before on the Talk:Sailor Cosmos page, but the ChibiChibi page now lists a link citing that Naoko Takeuchi stated in Smile magazine that Sailor Cosmos is the future version of Sailor Moon, which if true I would say is pretty conclusive.. it's good enough for the ChibiChibi page so I don't feel like it should be completely ignored here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.113.154.149 (talk)

The issue under discussion there is whether the future version of Sailor Moon is Usagi herself, Chibiusa (who is supposed to become Sailor Moon after Usagi becomes Neo-Queen Serenity), or someone else entirely. JuJube 21:20, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

i watched the manga on you tube and she said that she wanted to go back to destroy the galaxy culdren like she should have and sailor moon was the only one who could have evreyone elce was dead ♥Eternal Pink-Ready to fight for love and grace♥ 20:52, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Well, there is always this picture.. I think there is at least an opportunity for progress here, and if not, I'm sorry for bringing it up, but we're supposed to put facts out, right?

Sovereign of Earth is Neo-Queen Sereinty's title. It says it under her section i belive... This has nothing to do with cosmos. Here Usagi learns that she will be given the title "Sovereign of Earth," and Mamoru will become King Endymion alongside her.--Lego3400: The Sage of Time 15:40, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

And the Inner Senshi become Serenity's "Yeomen of the Guard". --  Denelson83  20:02, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Manga on YouTube? That sounds like an oxymoron to me. --  Denelson83  03:46, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Apparently people scan the manga and put it on Youtube as a slideshow. The Tokyopop translation is part of the problem with the debate though, Pink. It's not completely accurate. --Masamage ♫ 04:20, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

oh right sorry :} but iv allwas wonderd if pepole think sailor cosmos is chibiusa wouldn't she fade away when mamoru died like chibi moon did? ♥Eternal Pink-Ready to fight for love and grace♥ 12:46, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Chibiusa doesn't fade away in the manga, though. Mamoru dies at the beginning of Stars, and Chibi Moon comes to help out near the end. The future is getting weird and stormy by the time she leaves, but it doesn't totally collapse.

The Chibiusa theory is very unpopular, for whatever reason. It's more common to think that she's Chibiusa's daughter, or (because Chibiusa herself says no to that one) her granddaughter. --Masamage ♫ 17:10, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

i thourgt she faded away when tuxedo jumped off the clif but it was hard to read parts of it on my computer ♥Eternal Pink-Ready to fight for love and grace♥ 17:24, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

I have most of this debate up on my talk page. I have no idea why it's resurfacing after all this time when th manga was never that popular to begin with. But there are several huge problems with this debate. If the best we get is that she's Sailor Moon at San Diego Comic Con, and it's "complicated". There is absolutely no mention that it's Usagi from creator or manga, thus, being that there is no speculation or original research allowed, it's not a wikipedia page. And yes, the debate does cover she is Chibiusa too. (there's also issue with the odango as well... All incarnations of Usagi have the same odango... so part of the debate goes.)--Hitsuji Kinno 02:19, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

DiC serenity

in Sailor Moon Episode 76 - Legend of the Negamoon they use the name princess serenty insted of searena should we mention this because they use it on r the move aswell ♥Eternal Pink-Ready to fight for love and grace♥ 14:29, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Thats dic for you... They were very inconsitant, though not as much as cloverway. Both componeys have their good and bad points. Lego3400: The Sage of Time

Ewww

Someone went thorough and Replaced all of Usagi with serena and tried tell us we were wrong by using Usagi.. I reverted... We should keep an eye on that.--Lego3400: The Sage of Time 15:32, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

thats happend before mabye its just a sock puppet ♥Eternal Pink-Ready to fight for love and grace♥ 21:40, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

I was gonna guess it was some Xenophobe or some VERY Badly informed dubbie.--Lego3400: The Sage of Time 04:15, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Or, you know, a normal human being. --Masamage ♫ 04:48, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Xenophobes takng it a bit far ♥Eternal Pink-Ready to fight for love and grace♥ 10:26, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

I wasn't going to say anything orginally but... --Lego3400: The Sage of Time 11:51, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

But... What??? --  Denelson83  07:44, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

I was responding with my thought. I was't orginally going to say anything onthem orginaly until Etrnal pink gave his. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Lego3400 (talk • contribs) 15:48, 14 May 2007 (UTC).

Final Tiare Vs Moon Power Tiare

Wikimoon lists the Final Tiare as the Moon Power Tiare, compleate with Kanji and other stuff... I'm not sure which it is. Lego3400: The Sage of Time 00:45, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

I've asked them. --Masamage ♫ 02:19, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

The orical calles it the Final Tiare ♥Fighting for charming Love♥ 16:16, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

But is the name official and in some book somewhere?--Hitsuji Kinno 00:24, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Usagi as the Messiah

Should there be at least a paragraph explaining Usagi's role as the Messiah? Currently, the only place that the word "Messiah" appears is in the infobox, and I feel like it should probably have some sort of explanation. (I'd do it myself, but I'm only half way through S at the moment.) - Charity 15:44, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Hm, probably. I think the relevant section would be the part where it talks about her being Super Sailor Moon, right? What with the butterflies and the grail and all? --Masamage ♫ 16:28, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

If you watched the 126th episode of Sailor Moon S when Uranus and Neptune fought Sailor Moon, in the end, they recognized her as the Messiah of Peace, formally, they said, the future Neo-Queen Serenity. I think you should add the title of Messiah of Peace in Neo-Queen Serenity's section. Mines32 (talk) 16:43, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Added reference

I added reference for the hairpins used as weapons citing volume 1 act 2, and the official website. I thought it would be good to give a heads up. --Hitsuji Kinno 17:52, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Proposed move to Sailor Moon (character)

Please be aware of the discussion at WP:SM about moving this article to the title Sailor Moon (character). --Masamage ♫ 18:59, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Consensus seems to have been reached, so here goes! I'll move it, then rewrite the lead, then clean redirects and such. --Masamage ♫ 02:33, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Problem... with item names

The Rainbow Moon Cálice is being confused on many reputable pages... you can see the actual item here. http://www.bobagirl.com/anime/sailormoon/wands.html

This *means* it's the *official* name of the Holy Grail on the toy boxes is being confused with this item: [1] (manga, I haven't found verification.). *But* that also means the other item is unnamed. (I trust the packaging on a Bandai box over a fan website.) We have an issue here, because the other item is never physically named in the manga, I checked through the manga several times and there is no name. We'd have to wait oh a good 3 or 4 years for Takeuchi-sensei to finally list this item. (She's currently working through Black Moon arc.) There are items in the manga that are unnamed, but still used.

In addition the Cutie Moon Rod, turns out to have been mistakenly named this from Hitoshi Doi's website where he names several items wrong. The *official* name anime and manga is the Moon Rod. (As found on several toy boxes and the official website).

The Oracle runs into the problem too since many of the items are mixed up in terms of not being able to distinguish anime and manga. (Her source seems to take it from the Bunny Tour, which equally got it wrong.)

--;; This leaves me to ask, what the hell is that item called? [2] The way to solve this, is to look for 1. a toy with the *exact* design of it. 2. Look for the anime book that would correspond to it. 3. Wait a few years and get the official name from the website....

Also do we have official confirmation of Tier v. Tiare? or is that just copied from the Oracle which copied it from the Tour page? I'd like to see something to the effect of some packaging or *something* of confirmation. (Like we did for Amazoness)--Hitsuji Kinno 00:22, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Feel entirely free to change anything in that section if you find better verification of name spellings; a lot of it was very confusing and I had to just do my best. Yes, my primary source of information was the Oracle, although I tried to check it against other sources when they were available.

WikiMoon seems to know what they're talking about; they're finding names on toy merchandise when no official name exists. Looks like ESM gets the Eternal Tiare in both series (though in different ways), and then in splits. In the manga, it's never upgraded, and she also has the Rainbow Moon Chalice. In the anime, the Holy Moon Chalice comes around instead, upgrading the Tiare into the Moon Power Tiare. --Masamage ♫ 00:32, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Alright, I found it... There is indeed a confusion.

http://www.sailormoontoys.com/starschalice.jpg

That is the Holy Moon Cálice. This is the *upgraded version of the Rainbow Moon Cálice. This is *anime-specific* meaning that the wikimoon page is wrong on the names and they are screwed up. --;; What a pain... Cálice is the official spelling as per the box... So I'll fix this.

I asked someone who owns the toy, and found the official romanization is Tiaru... thus I've converted it to that. There is no official name in the manga since many of the items were not named.

The Oracle looks like it was harassed by Ian Miller. ^_^ I say Harassed because he posts your e-mail if you do not agree or comply. --Hitsuji Kinno 01:17, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Blonde Serenity in manga

http://mangastyle.net/book3/3-55.jpg. I knew there were some in there!Lego3400: The Sage of Time 13:02, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Usako

This has been nagging at me for awhile, but why does Mamoru call Usagi "Usako"?--Hanaichi 10:22, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

It's better than Usagi-wagi.  ;) I've heard it explained as being a contraction of Usagi-koi (which is explained to mean Usagi-love), but you might want to take that with a grain of salt. -Malkinann 11:45, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

-ko is a very common, very feminine Japanese name ending, meaning 'child'. So first you shorten the name to usa (which seems to be a standard shortening, hence Chibiusa), then you add this girly suffix to it. It's like taking someone named Anna and calling her Annie; doesn't actually shorten the name, it just makes it cuter. --Masamage ♫ 16:34, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Hey, just look at Naoko-sensei for how common that -ko suffix is. --  Denelson83  18:51, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

What songs?

"Jennifer Cihi provides the English vocals for Serena's songs in the series." But I have never seen #1 singing in the anime, English dub or not. So why are we including a statement with no stated basis? --  Denelson83  18:50, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

It's just weirdly phrased. Jennifer Cihi sings the songs like Carry On, My Only Love, etc. that are attributed to the character of Sailor Moon. (She's credited as such in the album.) --Masamage ♫ 19:04, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Then call them "image songs," because that's the term I know for this kind of use. --  Denelson83  20:05, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Old Infobox Template

Simply "testing" out the new general animanga character infobox template. Moved the Sailor Moon character template here for reference and/or re-use. KyuuA4 18:56, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

I've now removed the "old" infobox from here because the article is currently still using it; see discussion at WT:ANIME. --Masamage ♫ 07:36, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

This is a demo to show what the new infobox can do, and to help identify shortcomings in the new infobox template.

Infobox example
Old infobox {{Sailor Moon character | Color = background-color: #FFAAFF | Senshititle =Sailor Moon | Image =[[Image:Wikipe-tan_sailor_fuku.png|220px]] | Caption =Usagi in her Super Sailor Moon form as seen in the anime. | Civname =Usagi Tsukino** | Name-J =月野 うさぎ***<ref name="vol 10">{{cite book |last= Takeuchi |first= Naoko | title= Bishoujo Senshi Sailor Moon Volume 10 |chapter= Back of volume |publisher= [[Kodansha]] |date= June 6, 1995 |id= ISBN 4-06-178806-X}}</ref> | Dubname =Serena "Bunny" Tsukino | Birthday =June 30([[Cancer (astrology)|Cancer]])<ref name="vol 10" /> | Age =14–16<ref>Her age is given in voiceover as 14 in manga Act 1 and anime Episode 1; it is given again as 16 in manga Act 52 and anime Episode 200.</ref><br /> ~1,000 as Neo-Queen Serenity | Aliases =Princess Serenity, Neo-Queen Serenity, The Messiah, Sovereign of Earth, The Princess, Sailor Rabbit (PGSM) <!-- [Cite?] Soldier of Sanctity (manga) --> <!-- PLEASE DO NOT add any of the Sailor Moon forms to this list, as their presence here is redundant. --> | DubAliases =Princess Serena ([[DiC]]) | Affiliations =[[Sailor Team]] | Abilities =Attacks related to light (esp. moonlight) and love. Healing abilities. | DebutPGSM =Usagi/Sailor Moon: Act 1 <br /> Princess Serenity: Act 25 | Performers =[[#Actresses|(See below)]] }} New infobox Sailor Moon Sailor Moon character Usagi in her Super Sailor Moon form as seen in the anime. First appearance (See below) Created by Naoko Takeuchi Portrayed by (See below) In-universe information Alias Princess Serenity Neo-Queen Serenity The Messiah Sovereign of Earth The Princess Sailor Rabbit (PGSM) **** Affiliations Sailor Team Abilities Attacks related to light (esp. moonlight) and love. Healing abilities. Name Serena "Bunny" Tsukino Alias Princess Serena (DiC)
End of Infobox example

Notes:

** Not in new infobox code yet(?).

*** Not to be provided, it is provided in the lead paragraph.

**** Ideally only notable aliases should be added here; I doubt that all of the mentioned aliases are notable, eg The Messiah, Sovereign of Earth, The Princess, Sailor Rabbit. Non of these aliases are mentioned more than once in the article, and only in passing.

I will appreciate comment that will help improve the generic template. G.A.S 12:21, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Example updated — G.A.S 15:21, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Super into Eterrnal

The first few times the Anime Shows her transforming into Eternal, She has to go Super first. When it shows her compact transforming into the new form in the first of her 2 eternal henshin Sequences, If you look closely when she activates it, her hand is still gloved! --Lego3400: The Sage of Time 23:08, 16 September 2007 (UTC)23:08, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Promote this article?

So, does this article now qualify as good? --  Denelson83  02:19, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Probably not just because of the Variations section, which has yet to be really merged in. I think if the profile got a rewrite it would probably qualify--I think that goes for most of these bios. I'm willing to do it; I've been mildly inactive here due to real-life troubles, but it might be a nice change of pace to do some rewriting again. --Masamage ♫ 03:19, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Protagonist

Just to clarify, protagonist is NEVER a real person; a real person can play a protagonist role, but that's a different thing. In that case, the role (the character the actor is playing) is the protagonist.

The protagonist article (which nobody read, it seems) says the same thing: "protagonist is a term used to refer to a figure or figures in literature whose intentions are the primary focus of a story." So the protagonist is always a character in a story (novel, tv, cinema, manga, anime, etc), and therefore always fictional, even if some times is played by a real person.

Who is the protagonist in Braveheart? William Wallace or Mel Gibson? It's Wallace, played by Mel Gibson.Kazu-kun 16:23, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

I do agree that the word 'fictional' is redundant in this sentence because describing her as a 'title character' already does the work we need to. However, the protagonist article does not say that such figures are always made up, because that would be incorrect. Yes, William Wallace is the protagonist of Braveheart. He's also a real person--fictionalized, but not fictional. That's the distinction I was getting at. --Masamage ♫ 00:24, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

You're not getting the point. Yes, William Wallace is also a real person. But the clasification of "protagonist" is only correct when we're talking about him as a character in a story: a fictional character. The real Wallace is not a fictional character, and therefore is not a protagonist; the opposite is also true.

And so we come back to Sailor Moon; she's a protagonist, hence she's a fictional character.Kazu-kun 03:53, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I know that; whether I'm "getting the point" is not a polite thing for you to judge. All I'm saying is that Usagi is not based on a real-life person. She's a protagonist and a fictional character, wheres William Wallace is a protagonist and a fictionalized character. That was all I was trying to get at with my edit summary. It's not this big a deal. --Masamage ♫ 04:39, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Sorry! I didn’t mean to sound rude. I got a bit carried away, I suppose.Kazu-kun 04:53, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks; it's okay. Anyway, you have convinced me that we don't need to specify she's fictional; none of the other bios do it anyway. ^^ --Masamage ♫ 05:09, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

I have raised this issue at the manual of style, obviously it is a shortcoming there (As I am in the process of revising that guideline). G.A.S 08:04, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

An interesting point that came out of the discussion was that, the first paragraph of the article should rather concentrate on the character in the real word, i.e. first appearance, introduction to the real world, portrayed by etc. e.g. "Palpatine is a fictional character in George Lucas's science fiction saga Star Wars..."

In the mentioned articles, the second paragraph then concentrated on the role of the character in the work of fiction, e.g. "Palpatine is a major antagonist in Star Wars fiction..."

Refer to the respective lead sections of Palpatine and Jason Voorhees for more detail.

Maybe this article should be updated accordingly? G.A.S 15:04, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

That doesn't seem like a problem. It'd be pretty easy to reorganize. --Masamage ♫ 16:10, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Usagi's broochs.

We should proably explain her brooch's upgradeing process and clarify the transformations a little to help explain her power upgrade (This is how it works in the anime). I've listed them by their transforman prase since i don't know the offical names

• Moon Prism Power: Uses brooch Given to her by Luna
• Moon Crystal Power: 1st Merges with the silver crystal
• Moon Cosmic Power: second is upgraded by Queen Serenity
• Crisis: 3rd brooch+ Chalice
• Crisis B: third Brooch + Powers of other senshi and desperation
• Moon Crisis: 3rd is upgraded by pegusus
• Eternal A: 3rd is upgraded by other senshi, goes from Super to eternal
• Eternal B: Final brooch used alone. From civillan to Senshi

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.95.217.34 (talk) 13:13, 23 October 2007

Seems like way too much detail to me. --Masamage ♫ 16:10, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

V Manga Apperance

The visons of Venus with Serenity, and Moon and the inners and All 10 senshi (But not Usagi) were key factors in Minako awakening as Sailor Venus. Those apperances should be mentioned, if not in the box, then in prose. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lego3400 (talk • contribs) 13:41, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

I can agree to that. Where should the prose go? It doesn't really fit in the boxes or in any particular form... Maybe it could be mentioned in the Development section, since their retroactive appearance in Sailor V is partly a technicality? Something like "Two years after Ami's debut in Sailor Moon, she was shown in the Sailor V comic, set earlier in the stories' timeline, in an event that ties the two series together. Chronologically, this is her first appearance in the story." Except that's not quite true, since the SuperS movie shows her as a little kid. :) So we'd have to specify the manga. --Masamage ♫ 18:42, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Reception and Influence

Usagi is the one that is most likely to get spoofed of all of the Sailor Soldiers... She's influenced Gourry from Slayers in a spoof episode, she was spoofed on Reboot with the same hair style.... Should these things be listed with that section? Out of all the Senshi she seems to be the one that's used front and center as the focus of the parodies... I think it could beef up the section a bit. I know it's a bit out of range for the project on a general basis, but for this, it seems so on target.--Hitsuji Kinno (talk) 04:22, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

I dunno...the Reboot reference has the Inner Senshi, too. I think Usagi just gets spoofed the most because she's the title character and the series symbol, that's all. It seems like we can cover that area better by talking about all the parodies, together. It probably does deserve a mention, though, in that her hairstyle and speech poses are extremely, extremely iconic. We'd need a source, but surely there is one. --Masamage ♫ 06:23, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Bunny/Serena/Usagi

Just a question from a confused Wikian: In the old mangas my sister used to read, Sailor Moon's real name was "Bunny". In the anime, it was "Serena." I see her being called Usagi on this page, and I believe it is because it was her original Japanese name, correct? However, Wikipedia Uses English, and we are supposed to use the most accurate English translation. According to the Wikipedia example, we call Germany "Germany" and not "Deustchland" (apologies for the spelling). So, what reason is there to call her Usagi? Thanks to anyone who can clear this up for me 67.163.173.8 (talk) 00:12, 18 March 2008 (UTC)Turk

Well, a few reasons. "Usagi" is indeed the original form of her name, from which all the others are derived. You're definitely right that, where possible, the English version of a name is preferred, but not just a translation--it has to be an official version. So we could use Bunny, but the manga is less common than the anime--so maybe Serena? Except that that's inaccurate and confusing. And then there's the fact that the official English-subtitled DVDs still call her Usagi instead of translating her name (sometimes subs do translate, as with Ahiru of Princess Tutu becoming Duck), so in a way that becomes an English name too.

The other thing, which is honestly a more major reason, is to have some consistency within the series. Some of the SM characters do have English names, and some don't at all. Some have two. Some have three. Some are changed halfway through the series. Some are different in the merchandise. It would be a nightmare to have mismatching versions of the names, whichever we decided was "most" official, scattered every which way across the articles, so we've chosen to stick with the original Japanese mostly for consistency and sanity.

Fortunately, the English-preference isn't a hard and fast rule, but a guideline for when there's no reason not to use English. In this case, most of the editors agree that it's easier for all involved if we just stick with Japanese. --Masamage ♫ 02:26, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

In the English manga and anime, Serena's nickname is "Bunny" ^^ in the French anime, her name is Bunny, and in the Japanese manga and anime, its Usagi Mysticienne (talk) 22:48, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

The nickname Bunny only came up in the English Manga, not in the English-dubbed anime.--Hitsuji Kinno (talk) 15:39, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Characters who can fly

Is this a fitting category, do you think? The only times I can think of when Sailor Moon flies under her own power, she's in space (or some kind of magical suspension). Then there's Episode 200, in which she somewhat inexplicably sprouts functioning wings. Does that really count for enough? It's not one of her "powers," per se. --Masamage ♫ 20:31, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Probably esoteric. I say remove it. --  Denelson83  20:40, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Wasn't it one of her transformations? Regardless, she shouldn't be in the flight category, as it is really for characters who usually hover or travel through the air (like Kaito Dark, Son Goku, or Herb). I'm removing it. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 19:31, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Hatnote

I have placed a hatnote with an unbroken redirect to avoid confusion. Now is the wording ok? I was following the sample given at Trunks (Dragon Ball) and am wondering if Chibiusa needs dabbing too (per Future Trunks precedent). Thoughts? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 19:24, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Chibiusa is not the same character from an alternate timeline. ?_? --Masamage ♫ 23:51, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for giving me a good laugh. :) -- RattleMan 00:07, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Sorry about that. Haven't watched the show in so long that I didn't remember that she was Usagi's kid. Now to my other concern? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 03:45, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Chibiusa doesn't need dabbing because no one will accidentally end up there while looking for Usagi (it's doubtful whether the reverse will happen, either, but since they do have the same name...) Anyway, Usagi is linked in the Chibiusa article lead. --Masamage ♫ 06:59, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

There's something about the current wording that bothers me though. It's "the character's daughter" bit. There anything better? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 23:38, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

"Usagi Tsukino" redirects here. For the character from an alternate timeline, see Usagi "Chibiusa" Tsukino.

Ok, how's that sound? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 01:39, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Why do you insist that there's an alternate timeline? There is no alternate timeline. Chibiusa is Usagi's daughter. Biological, normal daughter. --Masamage ♫ 02:17, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

She is from ten years in the future, is she not? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 02:34, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

She's from a THOUSAND years in the future. However, it's not an alternate timeline, but the direct future of the present; whatever happens in the present travels down the line into the future and affects her (see the Nehellenia arc of Stars). -- RattleMan 02:55, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Goes to show how much I know (really gotta get back to watching the anime). Any ideas for a different wording? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 02:59, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Is anything actually wrong with the wording? --Masamage ♫ 05:43, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Not wrong, per se, it just looks strange IMHO. Have you anything else in mind? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 15:41, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

I have no idea. At the moment, it's pretty much a guessing game as to what needs changing. Would it help to say "this character's daughter"? --Masamage ♫ 17:50, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

I'll see if I can come up with something later. My apologies for being picky about it. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 23:54, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

"Usagi Tsukino" redirects here. For the daughter, see Usagi "Chibiusa" Tsukino.

Been a few months and, using the hatnote at Son Gohan somewhat as a precedent, this is about the best one I can think of. Ok to go with this? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 20:26, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

No. That hatnote would make anyone who doesn't already know the relationship between the characters go, "what daughter? Whose daughter? Is this a fancy name for something plot-related?" --Masamage ♫ 21:44, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

I kind of see what you mean. Are you suggesting that the one at Gohan should reflect something similar? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 00:57, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps a customized hatnote would help? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 04:53, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Hate to dig up an old discussion, but is this really necessary, beyond the tenuous overanalyticism that gives Wikipedia a bad name with the young'uns? I don't think a hatnote is necessary at all. Nobody looks up "Usagi Tsukino" and expects Chibiusa. JuJube (talk) 04:29, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Trying to understand Sailor Moon/Neo-Queen Serenity

I was a casual watcher of the show when Cartoon Network showed it, and just recently came to understand that Sailor Moon is reincarnated from Princess Serenity. I had always thought that Sailor Moon eventually becomes Neo-Queen Serenity within her own lifetime, but then I noticed that Neo-Queen Serenity lives in the 30th century. Does that mean that Sailor Moon lives a normal life after the show ends and dies sometime in the later 21st century, and Neo-Queen Serenity is a later reincarnation of her? I don't think Sailor Moon, powerful though she is, will live 1000 years. I think I've figured this out on my own, but if an expert on the series could clarify this I would really appreciate it. Thanks. 96.32.75.226 (talk) 04:55, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

According to the manga, Usagi becomes Neo-Queen Serenity at age 22, and after that the power of the Silver Crystal gives her and all her people extremely long life-spans. They are they same incarnation, although when she becomes the Queen she loses her power to transform into Sailor Moon. (Chibiusa, the next moon Senshi, is born around the same time, and her growth into an adult is mysteriously stunted. She's over 900 when she meets the other Senshi, and judging by her father's comments other children grow up normally before enjoying their extended lives.) --Masamage ♫ 06:54, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Chronologically, she's over 900, but she spent those centuries in cryonic suspended animation. --  Denelson83  02:12, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

I don't remember that; what I remember is them saying that they don't know why she never grew up. Where's the suspension thing discussed? (I'm talking manga here, for what that's worth.) --Masamage ♫ 02:45, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

i.e. The world went into a "frozen sleep." --  Denelson83  05:53, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

But where do they say that? --Masamage ♫ 06:23, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure the "frozen sleep" thing is anime-only. JuJube (talk) 06:29, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

````Sailor Moon Episodes````

Does anyone know where to currently watch any of the Sailor Moon episodes? I've found a few sites that have a partial listing of the episodes, but I can't seem to find those past the first season. I started watching it when it was on the Toonami portion of the Cartoon Network channel, but it was discontinued in the spring or something of 2001. By then, I think the show was on the fourth season, around episode 160ish. I had though that was the last episode, but I couldn't find out because it was no longer on tv, save for a short period around 2002, when it ran the first few episodes before completely going off the airwaves. I haven't seen Sailor Moon on tv for almost 7 years, so this makes me depressed. I watched it because I was in a depressing part of my life then, and it helped me to get through. Any suggestions or information would help, and sorry for the long query, and thank you. Sailor Moon forever. 6:00p.m. 9 January 2009

                           ````New64jerzee````  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.234.203.189 (talk) 02:08, 10 January 2009 (UTC) 

Sorry, but all SM licences are lapsed. If you want to watch SM again, you're going to have to move to Japan. --  Denelson83  02:11, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks

Oh, I see. Thank you very much. Oh well, maybe they'll be back again someday, outside Japan. With the economy and all, I don't think it will be feasible to move Japan, so I'll stay put. Guess we'll just have to find out. At least I have the three movies that Cartoon Network released. I'll watch those in the meantime, and there's always the moon to look at up in the sky, just like in the Joe Dirt movie with David Spade. One can dream... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.234.203.189 (talk • contribs) 02:22, 10 January 2009

considered a list

shouldnt this article also be mentioned as a list just like List of Sailor Moon minor characters and List of Sailor Moon episodes and so on.Bread Ninja (talk) 16:19, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

We're working on a "List of Sailor Moon characters" that will include everyone, but it's not live yet. This specific article isn't a list at all, being devoted solely to Usagi. --Masamage ♫ 16:29, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

very well then. you could just edit the minor characters article by adding the main characters.Bread Ninja (talk) 16:31, 22 September 2009 (UTC)