Talk:SJ B

No mention

There is no mention at all of an SJ B in Discovery Park of America. Peter Horn User talk 17:12, 28 September 2017 (UTC)

@ACo2c: You might look into this. Peter Horn User talk 17:19, 28 September 2017 (UTC)

@Peter Horn: I know nothing about the Discovery Park of America; I never heard of it before writing this article. RS say they bought it in 2013, but it is possible that they have sold it by now. Article reworded. ACo2c (talk) 17:52, 28 September 2017 (UTC)

@ACo2c: To top it off, there is no mention in Belfast and Moosehead Lake Railroad that the SJ B ever left there. Peter Horn User talk 18:36, 28 September 2017 (UTC)

No, but if it was still there it ought to be listed in Belfast and Moosehead Lake Railroad (2009). And I trust a book by a well-known (in Sweden) railway author better than Wikipedia!

Discovery park do mention some kind of railway-themed exhibition on their website [1]. Nothing about the vehicles and no locomotive in the image, but the image shows what might well be a Swedish B3 carriage. This is all I know, however; feel free to remove the information from the article if you consider it to be unreliable. ACo2c (talk) 19:06, 28 September 2017 (UTC)

@ACo2c: Before I do anything drastic, like deletion, I'll have a look at the website myself and, if the web site gives an email address, I'll ask questions by email. Peter Horn User talk 23:38, 28 September 2017 (UTC)

I just sent an email to info@discoveryparkofamerica.com (I used "copy and paste"). Peter Horn User talk 23:53, 28 September 2017 (UTC)

@ACo2c: I just received a reply from the Discovery Park of America. They do have a Swedish steam engine in their exibition shed. My email is peter.j.c.horn@gmail.com that way I can forward it to you. Peter Horn User talk 20:51, 30 September 2017 (UTC)

@Peter Horn: Interesting, although we can hardly use it as a ref in the article. But is there a particular reason that I need to see the actual email? I trust your description of it, and I would rather prefer not to use my email address for Wikipedia purposes. Sorry. ACo2c (talk) 11:23, 1 October 2017 (UTC)

@ACo2c: No problem, but if you were to have an additional email address for Wiki purposes, that would be handy. Anyway we now know where the engine is. The problem with your Swedish source book is that once the engine is in the hands of the first purchaser, the author of the book looses track of further sales. So how do we find an acceptable source other than use the email? Would we ask for their brochure (promotional literature) or let Discovery Park of America update the article about their park? Peter Horn User talk 22:48, 1 October 2017 (UTC)

"The problem with your Swedish source book is that once the engine is in the hands of the first purchaser, the author of the book looses track of further sales." I do not know if you are accusing me or Karlsson of fabricating information, but this is what he wrote in his 2013 book, page 154 (this is in a list of SWB locomotives):

"96, A, 2C0-3, öh, Nohab 1006 1913, 1936 köpt SJ B 1149, 1945 åter till SJ B 1149, 1992 slopat, 1994 sålt till Belfast & Moosehead Lake Railroad, Maine, USA. 2011 vidaresålt till Great Smokey Mountains Railroad North Carolina, USA, men ej avhämtat utan 2013 sålt igen till Discovery Park of America i Union City, Tennessee."

I have deliberately not translated it, so that I cannot be accused of misrepresenting the original text. It is clear from this that the author did not loose track of further sales, unless you consider his work to be unreliable. ACo2c (talk) 09:27, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

Also, using an unpublished email as a source would be a bad idea. Having the Park edit the article about themselves would be a very bad idea. But I suppose we can use promotional brochures to support a simple fact, if they really do identify the locomotive. Or we could simply remove that paragraph, which is rather unnecessary in any case and not worth fighting over, only I am a bit offended that you assume that I am misrepresenting my sources. ACo2c (talk) 09:50, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

@ACo2c: Mea culpa. I had no intention of accusing or offending you. I just assumed that once the two locomotives crossed the "big pond" (the Atlantic) the author would no longer be able to track them. I was wrong. But this, I think, has nothing to do with reliability. Keeping track sounds like a big job. But then, where and when did it go from the Great Smokey Mountains Railroad (page does not yet exist.) in North Carolina? Having said that we can say that the unit left the Belfast and Moosehead Lake Railroad (2009) in 2011 and was transferred to the Great Smokey Mountains Railroad. Again, I apologize. Peter Horn User talk 17:13, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

@Peter Horn: Apology accepted.

One drawback of not translating the quote above was that some details were lost: according to the book the locomotive was never moved to North Carolina, but remained on the Belfast and Moosehead Lake Railroad until sold to Discovery Park of America in 2013 (there is probably some kind of backstory to this). But I do not expect you to understand that much Swedish! That it was never moved is why I decided not to include this sale in the article. ACo2c (talk) 18:12, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

@ACo2c: See Great Smoky Mountains Railroad#Roster. I had to create a redirect. Peter Horn User talk 18:22, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

Copy and paste from Great Smoky Mountains Railroad#Roster "The GSMR had purchased a third steam locomotive, a former Swedish State Railways 4-6-0 #1149, in 2010 from the defunct Belfast and Moosehead Lake Railroad. This engine was originally slated to be moved to the GSMR in spring 2011. However, the engine continued to remain on the B&ML for two more years. Ultimately, the GSMR deemed the engine's move too costly and instead sold the engine to the Discovery Park of America, in Union City, Tennessee." Peter Horn User talk 19:10, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

@ACo2c: Copy and paste from your Swedish quotation above "....men ej avhämtat utan 2013 sålt igen till Discovery Park of America i Union City, Tennessee." I supply the Wiki link. That clinches it, Swedish State Railways 4-6-0 #1149 did wind up in Discovery Park of America. Peter Horn User talk 21:28, 2 October 2017 (UTC)