Talk:Russia/GA3

GA Review

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Reviewer: Lee Vilenski (talk · contribs) 16:18, 25 January 2022 (UTC)

Hello, I am planning on reviewing this article for GA Status, over the next couple of days. Thank you for nominating the article for GA status. I hope I will learn some new information, and that my feedback is helpful.

If nominators or editors could refrain from updating the particular section that I am updating until it is complete, I would appreciate it to remove a edit conflict. Please address concerns in the section that has been completed above (If I've raised concerns up to references, feel free to comment on things like the lede.)

I generally provide an overview of things I read through the article on a first glance. Then do a thorough sweep of the article after the feedback is addressed. After this, I will present the pass/failure. I may use strikethrough tags when concerns are met. Even if something is obvious why my concern is met, please leave a message as courtesy.

Best of luck! you can also use the {{done}} tag to state when something is addressed. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)}

Please let me know after the review is done, if you were happy with the review! Obviously this is regarding the article's quality, however, I want to be happy and civil to all, so let me know if I have done a good job, regardless of the article's outcome.

Hello, Lee Vilenski: Thank you very much for starting the reviewing process! I will be more than pleased to co-operate with you. Mspriz (talk) 18:05, 25 January 2022 (UTC)

Prose

Lede

• and has the most borders of any country in the world, with sixteen sovereign nations - I feel like this could be re-written: and borders sixteen sovereign nations, the most of any country in the world Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:05, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
  •  Done Mspriz (talk) 18:02, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
• It has a population of 146.2 million; and is the most populous country in Europe, and the ninth-most populous country in the world - same here. Try It is the ninth-most populous country in the world and the highest in Europe with a population of 146.2 million. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:05, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
  •  Done Mspriz (talk) 18:02, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
• Lede could maybe do with a copyedit (especially if this were to go to FAC), but it's nothing super offputting. It all makes sense. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:05, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
  • I'd probably need some help with the copy-editing. Mspriz (talk) 18:02, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

General

• The current name of the country, Россия (Rossiya), - surely this is the "official name". There's lots of current names, one being Russia Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:17, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
  • The official names of Russia in Russian are "Россия (Russia)" and "Российская Федерация (Russian Federation)" The country is commonly referred to as simply "Russia" in English. The Russian constitution states that the terms "Russia" and "Russian Federation" have equal official status. Mspriz (talk) 18:15, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
• ethnic Russians is a weird pipe. Could we just link Russians? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:17, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
  • One pipe removed, from the Early history section. However, the first pipe, used in Etymology section, is used to distinguish between ethnic Russians and Russian citizens of other ethnicity. Mspriz (talk) 18:15, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
• In late 8th century BCE, Ancient Greek traders brought classical civilization to the trade emporiums in Tanais and Phanagoria.[35] - can probably merge this into the paragraph prior. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:17, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
  •  Done Mspriz (talk) 18:02, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
• List of early East Slavic states - main article. Is no longer at this title. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:17, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
  •  Done Mspriz (talk) 18:02, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
• Same for Russian Democratic Federative Republic Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:17, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
  •  Done Mspriz (talk) 18:02, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
• This happens a lot throughout the article. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:17, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
  •  Done Tried to fix the issues across the article. Mspriz (talk) 18:02, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
• The History section is probably a bit long (and as said below, is probably overcited.) However there isn't much egregious here. I'd just suggest a cull, and move less important bits to the History of Russia article. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:17, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
  • I'd probably need some help. But I've tried to trim off some excess. Mspriz (talk) 18:02, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
• They include 45 UNESCO biosphere reserves - do we need to say UNESCO? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:17, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
  •  Done Mspriz (talk) 18:02, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
• Political divisions - wow that looks complicated, well summarised. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:17, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
• Everything sees well cited.

Review meta comments

• I'll begin the review as soon as I can! If you fancy returning the favour, I have a list of nominations for review at WP:GAN and WP:FAC, respectively. I'd be very grateful if you were to complete one of these if you get time. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:18, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
• Peanut gallery comment: The article is very long, at 80 kB (12650 words). I think there is opportunity for better use of summary style in the etymology and history sections. There is also a very wide variety of sources used, 630 refs (this may be the most I've seen on any single article). The page load time is worsened by the high amount of wikitext, 338,763 bytes. The sources vary in quality a lot, and you could improve the page load time by consolidating based on a smaller number of high-quality sources. For example, many of the references in the history section could be replaced by this book. (t · c) buidhe 03:13, 26 January 2022 (UTC)

Glad to, but probably not until next week. Thanks. —Michael Z. 20:46, 25 January 2022 (UTC)

I strongly agree with buidhe. Replacing a variety of sources with a few high-quality sources is important. Using shortened footnotes (sfn) would definitely be needed as it will cut out a good portion of unnecessary text, making the reflist much cleaner. I'd be more than happy to help you out with that. Wretchskull (talk) 09:27, 26 January 2022 (UTC)

Whilst I agree this is a good thing to do for the article, I don't think I'll challenge it at GAN. The article is already plenty long enough to look at; so long as the sources are reliable, that's all that matters at this time. I'll begin a dive through in a bit Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 11:27, 26 January 2022 (UTC)

buidhe: I re-sourced the sentences that you added the cn tags on. And Wretchskull, I agree, the article is a bit large, which is partly due to the massive amount of references. Over 630 sources. If the history section, the largest section, could get its sources sorted, then the article would get a large trim. Mspriz (talk) 17:40, 26 January 2022 (UTC)

@Seryo93: and @Mellk:: Sorry for the ping. But could you help with trimming unsignificant parts of the history section? The section is too massive. Mspriz (talk) 18:06, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

Sure, I can take a look at that later. Mellk (talk) 06:43, 29 January 2022 (UTC)

@Wretchskull: This article's refs have harmonized whitespaces since December 2021, which bloat the article's size even more. Should they be used? Removing the spaces might give the article a big trim. Mspriz (talk) 13:26, 29 January 2022 (UTC)

@Mspriz: That is up to you. The history section is rather bloated too, and WP:UNDUE or trivial information exists throughout the article. I'll see what I can do. Wretchskull (talk) 13:33, 29 January 2022 (UTC)

the whitespace in the rrefs is fine. Just need a bit more summary in the History and it'll be grand. Maybe remove a few of the refs that can be replaced. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 19:48, 29 January 2022 (UTC)

@Lee Vilenski: I tried trimming the section. Mspriz (talk) 09:45, 30 January 2022 (UTC)

Ok. It probably needs a little more, but it's certainly nothing that will effect the GA criteria. Good job, I'll pass now. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 10:05, 30 January 2022 (UTC)

Thank you very much for the review! I appreciate it a lot. Mspriz (talk) 10:18, 30 January 2022 (UTC)