Talk:Ruslan Sirota

Nationality

His nationality is mentioned in the source I gave, I quoted from it: "Ruslan Sirota, a Ukrainian-born Israeli behind a Star Treky threeboard console ..." http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-139410586.html is an archive of the Washingon Post, the fact is not displayed on the first page. When the page protection is removed I will readd his nationality as given in this reliable source, because "Personal knowledge" is not a reliable source. My other edits removed a useless forced table of contents, removed external links in the article body, fixed the abbreviation of month in the citations, and replaced "Since then" with a specific "Since 2004", removed "mainly" as a vague word and a number of redundant categories, and misc. other edits. Hekerui (talk) 14:09, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Your source requires anyone who wishes to verify it to give away credit card information. "Personal knowledge" means Ruslan is a personal friend of mine, a fact which overrides any source that was written by a third party (I'm pretty much getting the information "straight from the horse's mouth"). "Since 2004" is redundant as 2004 is mentioned just a few words earlier. The forced TOC is not a controversial item, I felt it was appropriate at the time of writing the article. "Mainly" is not a vague word, it means "most of the time" and is an accurate description of how Ruslan's life has been going on lately. Redundant categories? Explain why. And for the last time, the vast majority of Ruslan's musical career is in the US, with major American artists (such as Seal and Ne-Yo, to name a few) so there is no reason to insist on calling him an "Israeli artist" (that would be an artist with a career in Israel). Gotta go, will pick this up later. 72.214.77.70 (talk) 14:22, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

1. Every source of information costs money in some way, including an internet connection. That doesn't make the Washingon Times a false source. WP:PRIMARY states: "Do not add unsourced material from your personal experience, because that would make Wikipedia a primary source of that material." You removed the source arguing with "personal knowledge".
2. forcing a table of contents is I think excessive in such a short article, but a mere style issue
3. the "since then"-issue could be resolved by adding a reliable source. As it is the paragraph is unsourced, so clarity is indeed difficult.
4. Redundant categories: it makes no sense to list him as "Category:Israeli musicians", "Category:Israeli musicians by instrument", "Category:Jazz musicians", "Category:Jazz musicians by instrument", "Category:Pianists", when the categories which I left in, "Category:Israeli pianists", "Category:Israeli keyboardists", "Category:Israeli jazz pianists" contain all this information and are subcategories of those categories - leaving them in clutters the parent categories. I removed "Category:Jazz fusion ensembles" because he is not an ensemble, and "Category:R&B and Soul Music" because that is far too broad to apply to a person and not widely used because it originates in connection with the R&B portal.
5. "mainly focusing" is a vague formulation, because focusing is something one either does or doesn't. It's not sourced anyway, so one could challenge an remove it.
6. Your time argument is speculation. I had used a reliable source that identifies him as "Ukrainian-born Israeli".
7. For the rest: "External links should not normally be used in the body of an article." per WP:ELPOINTS, and using "Nov." for "November" in a citation appears informal so I replaced it, per WP:MOS.

Hekerui (talk) 15:08, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

1. I'll take your word for it – let's keep the source, it's always good to have more sources.
2. Small issue, I feel that a table of contents would make the article seem bigger than just above a stub.

It's just above a stub. Hekerui (talk) 08:33, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

1. It's a matter of grammar; as I previously explained, 2004 is mentioned just a few words earlier.
2. His name definitely deserves to be included in categories such as "Jazz musicians" and "Pianists". I also included him in "Jazz fusion ensembles" because he is a part of the Stanley Clarke group (and a few jazz fusion ensembles beforehand).

Look at any FA articles - this is never done. In how many redundant categories do you want to put someone? All people would be in countless redundant categories. Hekerui (talk) 08:33, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

...and your source for defining those as redundant is...? 208.74.39.23 (talk) 16:46, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

1. "Mainly focusing" means that his primary activity is the making of his debut album. As for sourcing, I can add an official promo clip from Ruslan's YouTube channel, as well as his recording session at Chick Corea's home.
2. Use sources, but not without using common sense. You cannot call someone an Israeli artist when the vast majority of their musical career had been in the US. In Israel, Ruslan is indeed a guest of honor, but he does not record, perform (aside from maybe a gig with some friends for the good times' sake) or produce anything there. His contribution to the American culture suffices for him to be called an American artist. I strongly believe his nationality should not be mentioned in the lead, precisely for these reasons.

Nationality is not something aquired simply by living or working somewhere, it's an official status - and his "contribution to the American culture" is that he is a supporting keyboard player. A reliable source gives a proper answer already and should be followed instead. If you want to write something else, find a reliable source that says he's American. Hekerui (talk) 08:33, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

This is why I am trying to avoid mentioning his nationality in the lead. You are splitting hairs. 208.74.39.23 (talk) 16:46, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

1. In that case, why didn't you create the "External links" section? You simply removed the link altogether. As for the "Nov." contraction, I could not find an explicit policy in WP:MOS, perhaps you could point me to that... anyway, it's too insignificant to argue over. 208.114.113.103 (talk) 23:33, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

The link was purely promotional, I removed it per WP:ELNEVER. As for the useless abbreviation, WP:MOS states "Avoid abbreviations when they might confuse the reader, interrupt the flow, or appear informal" - "Nov. 8" is informal. Hekerui (talk) 08:33, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

No it wasn't, Wally's was Ruslan's main hangout place during that period, which marked his out-of-Berklee web of musical connections. As for "Nov.", it is not the same as "isn't" and is, in fact, very formal. 208.74.39.23 (talk) 16:46, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

Grammy

The article states that he won a grammy, but does not state what the grammy was for or when it was. This seems like a major omission.

Here's the YouTube video of his acceptance speech

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3i0CCqgUKP0 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Skysong263 (talk • contribs) 21:47, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

Also, wasn't there a second grammy, or at least a second nomination? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Skysong263 (talk • contribs) 00:18, 18 February 2016 (UTC)