Talk:Rudolf Diesel/Archives/2020

check this

"Let’s first rewind and go back to the beginning of the 1900s where Dr Rudolf Diesel has just invented the diesel engine and is displaying it at the Paris exhibition. Sat right there is the mother of all diesel engines happily chugging away running on peanut oil! Rudolf had designed the Diesel engine to be run a variety of fuels and during his Paris speech said, "the diesel engine can be fed with vegetable oils and will help considerably in the development of the agriculture of the countries which use it." Sounds good for developing countries but not so good for the petroleum industry. A few years later and Rudolf Diesel’s body is found drifting face down in the English Channel. After holding secret talks with the UK navy about fitting diesel engines into their submarine fleet Rudolf Diesel was killed by the French to stop his diesel technology being fitted into submarines over the world, nothing new there then! After Diesel’s death the petroleum industry capitalised on the diesel engine by naming one of their crappy by-products of petroleum distillation ‘diesel fuel’. That’s how dirty diesel fuel has come to be the fuel for diesel engines." — From http://www.schnews.org.uk/diyguide/howtomakebiodiesel.htm —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.166.49.67 (talk) 21:36, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Grosser's biography says that Diesel was depressed by his debts, that he had been reading some dark and depressing philosophy, and that he put his affairs in order with his son before getting on the boat (a sign of suicide plans). In this telling it sounds like a true suicide. However, the conspiracy theories can never be proved wrong, either. If anyone did kill Rudolf Diesel in 1913 in order to try to stifle or change the usage of diesel engines or their choice of fuels, then they were about a decade too late. By 1913 the technology was already way outside of any one person's control. And the proliferation of motorships (including submarines) was already inevitable. So a homicide (if true) was foolish and futile. Currently the article does not mention any of these things (neither Grosser's details nor conspiracy theories). Maybe it should briefly mention each in a neutral manner. — ¾-10 03:21, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

I think you're jumping to conclusions a bit. Perhaps Diesel received some threats, was concerned for his life and decided to put his affairs in order before the trip? If Diesel was of no consequence to further development/promotion of his engine then the whole trip to the UK would be "foolish and futile," wouldn't it? Yet Diesel "[http:// www.helium.com/items/1651841-the-strange-death-of-rudolf-diesel had been invited] to participate in several business meetings to lay the groundwork for a new Diesel engine factory. He was also being honored at a special ceremonial dinner. Friends who knew him well testified later that he was very buoyant and excited about the whole affair." C1010 (talk) 00:18, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Re your first point (perhaps he'd received some threats): Very true.

Re your second point (whole trip would be "foolish and futile," wouldn't it): Not at all. What I was saying is that whether Diesel had lived or died, the technology's development and dissemination was going to happen anyway. That's completely independent of how his own business ventures and particular people and companies might suffer from the loss of his death (which I'm sure they did). An analogy would be Albert Einstein in 1950. Killing him in 1950 might have deprived the world of 5 more years of personal genius and worthwhile contributions; but it would not have stopped the nuclear arms race at all.

Re your third point: You could well be right. My mind is open to either suicide or homicide. I just happen to think that most people latch onto the homicide idea too facilely because it makes a good, juicy story, and because most people like the idea of thinking, "Oh, they say it was suicide, but that's probably just a cover-up. I bet the real story is juicier than that, and only fools would believe the 'official' version." Most people will never read the WP:RS for themselves (quality secondary sources such as biographies, academic work, etc). The most they'll ever do is google the topic, quickly skim the free stuff on the web (including this Wikipedia article), and make a snap judgment that "oh yeah right, I bet it's all a setup." That's the sad truth of human nature. As a Wikipedian I try to stay conscious of that reality and guard against allowing people to mislead themselves so facilely. So as someone who has read a book-length biography, I try to arrive at a balance of coverage that I believe is not WP:UNDUE. All this is only to explain where I'm coming from, and prove that I have given all of this plenty of thought. I well realize that homicide is possible, and I have confidence that, upon reading this explanation, you will understand where I am coming from. I'm OK with your version of the wording being restored. Best regards, — ¾-10 02:43, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Describing the fuel as, "Dirty Diesel Fuel" sounds like you are trying to make an envronmental statement in a place where it doesn't belong. Whilst anyone would agree that diesel engines used to be synonymous with 'dirty, noisy and smelly', those adjectives cannot be applied to modern diesel engines that are kept properly serviced. In fact the most modern of engines don't even emit any black smoke recogniseable of older engines under any conditions. In vehicle testing stations they have to use much more sensitive equipment to detect the emissions than are necesary with petrol engines. It was also necesary to (controversially) test diesels at full throttle to get anything capable of being measured. Petrol engines, on the other hand, produce easily detectable polutants at idle. 20.133.0.13 (talk) 13:59, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Re: It should be mentioned that in 1903 Diesel wrote a book called SOLIDARISMUS - NATÜRLICHE WIRTSCHAFTLICHE ERLÖSUNG DES MENSCHEN, which he thought would be more important for mankind than his Diesel engine! This book was edited in 10.000 prints, but only a few 100 books were sold. Diesel was his own editor and self-publisher. This book was really dangerous for the bank system! And this was the true reason why he was murdered. Diesel's book was not available for 100 years, but was new published in 2020. You can buy it in Germany, but I don't know if it is available in English. -- 92.206.85.241 (talk) 21:03, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

The book Solidarismus – natürliche wirtschaftliche Erlösung des Menschen was something that Diesel wrote because it was his heart's desire, and he indeed published the book himself. However, the book didn't turn out to be dangerous for anyone, it only ruined Diesel's reputation – that somebody murdered Diesel because of this book is nothing but a conspiracy theory. There is absolutely no evidence for this. The book has been in the public domain in the US since 2018, I suppose. It can be downloaded as an Epub here, and is also available in the digital library of the University of Innsbruck here (scan of an original book). best regards, --Johannes (Talk) (Contribs) (Articles) 00:13, 29 September 2020 (UTC)