Talk:Rosh HaNikra grottoes

POV

I get it that there's no way to be purely NPOV here: this is literally a case of "one man's freedom fighter..." Sourcing from each side of the argument isn't going to help either. The best solution would be for the article to simply cover both:

....by Jewish freedom fighters or terrorists

Problem is (a) there's no material on Jewish freedom fighters at the moment and (b) the actual freedom fighters—the Haganah—apparently specifically avoided attacking this rail connection because of the destruction and counterproductiveness of it. It ruined the only connection between Europe and North Africa's standard gauge rail networks. If they didn't change their minds over the next two years, that'd make this a solely terroristic act to both the Arab and Jewish leadership. — LlywelynII 00:08, 21 September 2015 (UTC)

Huh. I guess that's close. Simply name the specific organization that carried out the attack and people can carry their own biases with them. Also Jewish insurgency in Palestine is probably as good an article as any for "freedom fighters", no? — LlywelynII 00:35, 21 September 2015 (UTC)

You get some answers at Night of the Bridges. The cooperation between Haganah, Irgun and Lehi (the "Jewish Resistance Movement") was still ongoing, but this was solely a Haganah action.Arminden (talk) 12:15, 30 January 2017 (UTC)

Needs more info on:

• did blowing up the bridge in 1948 also block the southern British tunnel & stop access via the railway route until '68? If not, the "only swimmers & divers" bit can only refer to pre-WWII times and is a bit out of place. I see an unsourced, vague claim in the article ("the tunnels were later completely sealed") - when later? How reliable (source)?
• when was the 2nd tunnel dug, 66-68 or 68-70? The online sources only say, a bit nonsensically, that it took 2 years to dig and "was built in 1968".
• when was the cable car added? Maybe the '68 tunnel was specifically dug as part of the cable car project, or it was only meant to connect to the (reopened? never fully closed?) southern British tunnel as a way in and out. Arminden (talk) 11:12, 30 January 2017 (UTC)

Ladder of Tyre

"Ladder of Tyre" automatically redirects here, which is not correct and isn't even supported by the article text. The Ladder of Tyre is a term that probably designated slightly different geographical sites or areas at different points in time, and relates to the steep ridge rising north of Acre. See here [1] for an excellent article, offering 3 different capes or an entire area as plausible locations, all placed between Acre and Tyre, which is the sole common denominator other than the Ladder being a hard-to-pass high and steep obstacle on the seashore road. So Rosh HaNiqra (Ras en-Naqurah) shares in being connected with the Ladder of Tyre with two more capes (Ras el-'Abyadh Ras in Lebanon north of it, and el-Musheirifeh south of it) and the respective mountain ranges connected to the promontories. Arminden (talk) 18:43, 1 September 2018 (UTC)

60 Degree Hyperbole

Check the cables in this link: http://www.hostels-israel.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/DSC_3390.jpg One is 31.6 degrees and the other is 32.0 degrees. The article claim (60 degrees) is ridiculous, as are many other fables from this area 200.68.142.21 (talk) 01:07, 11 July 2019 (UTC) Baden K.

Maybe an entry(ies) confused degrees for percent, as 60% equals 31 degrees. However, it would have been deceptive to present the angle in percent. 200.68.142.21 (talk) 02:59, 11 July 2019 (UTC) Baden K.

Wrong title: it's about the entire promontory

... and not just the grottoes. It's a cape, a promontory made of chalk, with several natural (grottoes, cliffs; geologically different, but located close by: islands) and man-made features (railway with tunnels and bridges, cable car) with most of it and its surrounding area protected as part of nature reserves. The bulk of the article, including the history section, deals with them all anyway, there's actually very little about the grottoes themselves.

This should be simply renamed "Rosh HaNikra", and the DAB "Rosh HaNikra (disambiguation)".

The Ladder of Tyre is a related topic, which would also profit from a better defined and written article about the cape and its history. Arminden (talk) 20:09, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

@Onceinawhile, Huldra, Davidbena, Steal the Kosher Bacon, Zeev59, LlywelynII, Marokwitz, and Metallurgist: hi. As still active main contributors to both articles you might have an opinion on this. Cheers, Arminden (talk) 20:22, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

I am fine with that. It is an important geographical, geological and border point and needs an article. Because it sits on the border between two countries, I think we would need to have a good faith assessment of whether the Arabic-derived or Hebrew-derived English name is the right one for the article title. A similar example of this is Mount Everest which is on the Nepal-China border. Onceinawhile (talk) 09:24, 21 July 2022 (UTC)

I'm not aware of Lebanon having any part of it. I checked a series of maps, and all are placing the caption "Ras en Nakurah" next to the small promontory, which was always part of Palestine, not of Lebanon. So not the larger bulge in the shoreline, but the nose-like protuberance next to the caves. Please look at

• SWP map (1880s), sheet 3. Compare the very similar situation further up north at "Ras el Abiad".
• 1944s Survey, sheet 1: North
• 1947 UN Partition Plan for Palestine

Naqoura is a town in Lebanon, but Ras en-Naqura (ras = cape) was in Mandate Palestine and is in Israel. No need to start a non-issue. Of course there are border crossings where the same geographic name applies to both sides, but this is not the case here. Arminden (talk) 19:00, 21 July 2022 (UTC)

Are you asking about changing the title from RHG to RH? I'm ok with that. Steal the Kosher Bacon (talk) 12:22, 5 August 2022 (UTC)