Talk:Roger Holeindre

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Puark, enough of this. You repeatedly include false claims and should start discussing before. Rama and I have both reverted you, you obviously do not have consensus. The matter is simple: I have included the alleged fact that he took out two machine guns from the Germans in August 1944 - you should be satisfied with that. One is not a Resistant for such an act, or else half of France would be Resistant. Tazmaniacs 18:40, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

According to you, half of France stole machine guns from Germans...

Everybody consider Holeindre as a resistant. [1], [2] [3].

So, as everyone except you considers this fact, I reformulated the sentence: "In 1944, aged 15, he joined the French resistance, and took out two machine guns from the Germans in August.". Puark —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.100.145.161 (talk) 08:54, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

"Join the French Resistance" doesn't mean anything. The French Resistance was never a single organisation that one could "join". Obviously Holeindre did not enrole in the Communist Party, nor in the French Army. I am removing this sentence from the article ; if something rigorous can be linked to the assertion, it has to be worded more precisely. Rama 09:32, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Oh, and of course I set a "" in this machine gun story. I find it to be disturbingly similar to the fairy tale of a teenage Le Pen throwing German 88mm anti-aircraft ammunition to the sea, carrying a handgun, and being known among Resistants as "Pistol fry", which is a classic of the FN mythos. Rama 09:45, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

"if something rigorous can be linked to the assertion, it has to be worded more precisely" (dixit Rama) --> I have done it.

(the communist party was a collaborationist movement [4], Puark)

Please do not modify my comments. When it will be my desire to have nonsense in my statements, I shall insert it myself. Rama 14:09, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

I've checked the first source that Puark Googlebooked... René Monzat speaks of Holeindre passing-by, concerning FN members who were part of the Resistance, and he does include him in this group. But Monzat doesn't give more details on Holeindre, and his account contradicts far-right accounts which only credit him for stealing two machine guns in August 1944. If he hadn't been so young at the time, Holeindre would have probably been classified as yet another Résistant du lendemain. In other words, Monzat can't be cited as a reference here, as he is mentionning this only passing-by, and clearly has been misled. Furthermore, Puark, this page is to discuss Holeindre, not to use as an Internet forum to do claims such as "the PCF was a collaborationist movement" — sure, and the National Council of the Resistance was also pro-Petainist... Tazmaniacs 13:55, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

I've also just watch the third link (INA), it doesn't mention Holeindre. Le Monde link (2) also only mentions this, passing by, just as Monzat. So, you should try to find a biographical link, not some link about Le Pen or about the FN which only claims, passing by, this alleged act of bravoure and patriotism from Holeindre. See WP:RS. Thanks, Tazmaniacs 14:06, 17 September 2007 (UTC)