Talk:Robert Rubin/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

Request to update information about departure from Citigroup

I have one final request for this section, in which I propose expanding what is currently a single sentence describing his compensation at Citigroup to become a summary of Rubin's views of the industry tumult with which he was involved, noting when he left Citigroup, and simplifying the compensation information. As with other requests, I am open to changes and further discussion based on what I have proposed:

Suggested changes to update Post-government career section

Existing text	Revised text with references	Reason for suggested change
Rubin received over $17 million in compensation from Citigroup and a further $33 million in stock options as of 2008 and total compensation of $126 million from Citigroup between 1999 and 2009.	In a December 2009 Newsweek article, Rubin described the extraordinary combination of circumstances that led to the global financial crisis, including market excesses, low interest rates, a massive increase in the use of complex derivatives, misguided AAA ratings, stagnant median real wages, abusive mortgage practices, and the over-leveraging of financial institutions, among many other factors. Rubin resigned from Citigroup in 2009, writing at the time that his "great regret is that I and so many of us who have been involved in this industry for so long did not recognize the serious possibility of the extreme circumstances that the financial system faces today". Rubin received total compensation of $126 million from Citigroup between 1999 and 2009.	The proposed language is intended to clarify Rubin's views of the 2008 crash, and I believe is an informative complement with the earlier material criticizing his actions. FWIW, the Newsweek material is not original to my draft: it was in the entry for a long time (go here and search "Newsweek"), and this is a pared-down version of that. Acknowledging that it is an op-ed and not a reported piece, WP:NEWSORG says "invited op-eds and letters to the editor from notable figures ... are reliable primary sources for statements attributed to that editor or author" and I think this fits the bill. The second paragraph identifies the year of his departure, which is not currently mentioned in the section. Finally, I suggest focusing on Mr. Rubin's overall compensation; the smaller figures make things a little confusing and it's the overall numbers that are most relevant.

References

Thanks for the consideration, WWB Too (Talk · COI) 18:08, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

The info about the resignation date and total compensation seems fine, but would prefer a second set of eyes for the other material, which IMO slants a little far in the other direction. For example, the proposed change mentions "abusive mortgage practices, and the over-leveraging of financial institutions" which provided ref 4 above seems to characterize as Rubin's doing: A November 23 front-page story in The New York Times called Rubin “an architect of the bank’s strategy” to chase profit by expanding in collateralized debt obligations and other risky products. Furthermore, the proposed inclusion of the op-ed doesn't seem particularly well-integrated into the section. I think it would be better integrated into the existing section as a whole, not just added on as paragraphs at the end (would "In a December 2009 Newsweek article..." go right after "...as part of the settlement" in the article? or new paragraph?) . Is Rubin defending his performance at the company? Ideally, there would be a third-party analysis of this that would provide a more neutral framing, rather than "here are Rubin's opinions about the economy at the time". Spencer^T•C 14:02, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for looking at this Spencer. If you think this goes too far in the other direction, I'm open to omitting the Newsweek material. And FWIW, the criticisms in ref 4 are addressed earlier in the section (see "...critics argued Rubin increased risk-taking at Citigroup..."). Ultimately, if you're willing to implement what you're comfortable with and leave out what you're not, that would be good enough for now. Thanks, WWB Too (Talk · COI) 20:33, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

 Done Implementing the total compensation and resignation date. Agree that criticisms in ref 4 are addressed earlier, hence I proposed "I think it would be better integrated into the existing section as a whole, not just added on as paragraphs at the end". Best, Spencer^T•C 15:58, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

Hi Spencer, thanks for doing that. I take your point about a third-party source being helpful as a neutral framing. I may come back with another proposal for that at some point, but for now I'm marking it as fully answered. Thanks, WWB Too (Talk · COI) 19:12, 5 August 2022 (UTC)

Request to update introduction

Hello again, this requested edit is about updating the introduction of the article. The content of this article has changed considerably over the past couple of years, but the introduction hasn't changed much, and I think it can be improved in several ways.

I'll use a modified version of the tabular presentation that Spencer had suggested, since I propose only minor changes to the first of the two existing paragraphs, while I have more substantial changes for the second. Here is my proposal for the first, with highlighting to show intended changes:

Existing text	Revised text
Robert Edward Rubin (born August 29, 1938) is an American retired banking executive, lawyer, and former government official. He served as the 70th United States Secretary of the Treasury during the Clinton administration. Before his government service, he spent 26 years at Goldman Sachs, eventually serving as a member of the board and co-chairman from 1990 to 1992.	Robert Edward Rubin (born August 29, 1938) is a retired American banking executive who served as the 70th United States Secretary of the Treasury during the Clinton administration. Before his government service, he spent 26 years at Goldman Sachs, serving as co-chairman from 1990 to 1992.

This change removes the descriptor "lawyer"; Mr. Rubin's notability owes nothing to his law career, which was brief and early on. Next, it seems redundant to describe him as a "former government official" and then immediately state that he was Treasury secretary, so the first two sentences can be combined. Finally, being a member of the GS board is less noteworthy than being co-chair, and this also tightens things up a bit.

Meanwhile, I propose replacing the second paragraph with three paragraphs covering the same material while adding some important information currently in the article, but not in the introduction. Only one sentence is carried over, and the rest is new, so I didn't think highlighting was useful here:

Existing text

Revised text

During the Clinton administration, Rubin oversaw the loosening of financial industry underwriting guidelines which had been in place since the 1930s. His post-government role includes serving as director and senior counselor of Citigroup, where he performed advisory and representational roles for the firm. From November to December 2007, he served temporarily as chairman of Citigroup and resigned from the company on January 9, 2009. He received more than $126 million in cash and stock during his tenure at Citigroup, up through and including Citigroup's bailout by the U.S. Treasury.

In 1993, he became Assistant to the President for Economic Policy and the first Director of the White House National Economic Council. His post-government roles include serving as director and senior counselor of Citigroup, where he performed advisory and representational roles for the firm. Rubin is credited as a major force behind Clinton-era economic prosperity, including the 1993 Deficit Reduction Act and Balanced Budget Act of 1997. However, critics of Rubin have since argued that the bank-friendly policies he supported contributed to the financial crisis of 2007–2008. As of 2022, Rubin is active in several organizations, including as a co-founder of The Hamilton Project, as co-chair emeritus of the Council on Foreign Relations, and as a senior counselor at Centerview Partners.

Here there are more substantial changes. Most importantly, I propose removing entirely the "loosening of financial industry underwriting guidelines" sentence, which is both too oblique, and implies the former guidelines were good based on longevity alone. This subject is now addressed a bit further down in my draft, in chronological order, and with more specificity, e.g. "the bank-friendly policies he supported contributed to the financial crisis of 2007–2008".

My version also mentions two prominent roles he held in the White House prior to becoming a Cabinet secretary. Next is the mention of his role at Citigroup. I have left alone the language about what he did there, but propose removing the mention of his very short time as board chair, which places disproportionate emphasis on two months of a 50+ year career.

In the 1990s, Mr. Rubin was widely credited with playing a significant role in the Clinton-era economic expansion, which is more than worthy of mention in the introduction (it is discussed at some length in the article's Secretary of the Treasury section). This accomplishment is then balanced by mentioning criticism he received beginning in 2008, as noted above.

Lastly, I suggest removing the information about his compensation at Citi; his compensation is not at all unusual for top banking executives. In its place, I suggest a short paragraph listing three notable organizations (each the subject of an existing article) he has played key roles at in the years since.

Thanks in advance for the consideration, and I'm happy to discuss any specifics in the draft. Thanks, WWB Too (Talk · COI) 14:08, 12 August 2022 (UTC)

I made most of these suggested changes because they are reasonable and clarify the lead. I left out the suggested listing of some of the roles Rubin held, as that doesn’t seem like it belongs in a summary lead paragraph and in any case is covered later in the article. Interested editors are encouraged to review these edits and I would not object to different interpretations of the merits of these inclusions. If all are in agreement, this edit request can be closed. Go4thProsper (talk) 22:07, 19 August 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for responding to the request Go4thProsper, and also for your patience on this reply. Let's keep the request open for now; I'll keep an eye on any other replies, and see where it's at in another week or two. Thanks, WWB Too (Talk · COI) 18:00, 25 August 2022 (UTC)

I'm comfortable leaving this where it is for now, so I'm marking this request complete. WWB Too (Talk · COI) 18:20, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

Request to remove Criticism section

This article has long contained a Criticism section, but I believe at this point in the article's development there are some good reasons to suggest its removal. First is redundancy: the subject matter it addresses, namely the controversies during his time at Citigroup involving Enron and the 2008 financial crisis, and even the details of his compensation, are all discussed in the Citigroup section. Second, I believe the Citigroup treatment of the subject matter is more even-handed and also contains more detail.

Finally, both WP:STRUCTURE and WP:CRITICISM generally discourage criticism sections as POV forks. The former says "Try to achieve a more neutral text by folding debates into the narrative, rather than isolating them into sections that ignore or fight against each other." The latter says, among other things: "The article should be divided into sections based on topics, timeline, or theme – not viewpoint. Negative criticism should be interwoven throughout the topical or thematic sections."

Spencer or Go4thProsper, you've both been fair-minded about my previous requests. Do either of you have thoughts on my reasoning here, or interest in removing the section? And if a side-by-side comparison of the material would be helpful, I'm happy to provide it. Cheers, WWB Too (Talk · COI) 18:36, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

I agree with the points you have made and would support removal of the criticism section, but only if those same points are covered in other parts of the article. As you mention, this appears to be the case and in some instances the coverage within those sections is more appropriate than what is in the criticisms section. Also, this change would be consistent with the WP:STRUCTURE and WP:CRITICISM guidelines, as noted. If the content of the criticism section is duplicative then removal of the section is appropriate. Again, only if those issue remain covered elsewhere in the article. Go4thProsper (talk) 03:50, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

I think Taleb's criticism should be integrated into the Citigroup section, and I have added that there. Will remove the sentences about Enron since they are fully covered by that other section. Marking as addressed for now, but remove the "|A" if you have additional suggested edits regarding the change. Spencer^T•C 08:59, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

Thanks both, Spencer or Go4thProsper, I'm happy with this change. I do actually have one somewhat related request, which is quite simple so I'll just ask here: if you look at citation 53, which is a Reuters article, it also contains an alleged quote—"The Financial Crises Inquiry Commission investigated Rubin's role at Citigroup and referred the case to the DOJ for possible indictment."—which isn't in Reuters, nor is it in the archived Yahoo! story linked there. If you search the phrase on Google it returns... this Wikipedia article and two mirrors. I think it's been in the article for years; I tried locating the addition on WikiBlame but it didn't seem to find the right edit. In any case, would one of you be willing to remove it? Thanks, WWB Too (Talk · COI) 19:54, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

Quote removed, I'm not sure why it was in the ref. I found a relevant article from Fortune regarding the FCIC referral and added some information about that to the end of the Citigroup section. Spencer^T•C 01:54, 10 September 2022 (UTC)

Hi, Spencer. I'd like to make a different suggestion for this material. As you wrote, the context is the causes of the financial crisis, and this subject already comes up earlier in the section. So I think it would make more sense to include it there. What follows is my suggested revision; the first and last sentences already exist in the article:

Following the 2008 financial crisis, critics argued Rubin increased risk-taking at Citigroup, thereby exposing the bank to greater losses, and that economic policies he promoted as Treasury secretary exacerbated the situation. Rubin was one of several banking officials referred by the Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission to the United States Department of Justice for investigation in 2010; however, the DOJ did not pursue any further investigation or actions against him. According to The Wall Street Journal, Rubin has stated that "he wasn't alone in failing to foresee the severity of the crisis that would emerge".

This replacement also adds further context, chiefly that Rubin was not alone to be so referred. What do you think? WWB Too (Talk · COI) 14:34, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

WWB Too As the writer of the current section in the article, I will defer to a third party editor to review this request. I think removing the quote of the Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission removes information about what they concluded about Rubin's role, so I think the proposed replacement removes a little too much information if the intent is to state that "Rubin was not alone to be so referred". I think having a side-by-side comparison would make more clear the current article structure and your proposed change. I have reopened the edit request template at the top of the section. Spencer^T•C 21:37, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

Spencer, thanks for the response. I understand your concerns, and I think a side-by-side would be useful. I'll follow up when I have it together. Best, WWB Too (Talk · COI) 21:03, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

Hi again, Spencer, thanks for your patience. I think actually I'm going to leave this alone for now. I have some other priorities for the page, so I'll start a new thread when I'm ready to make a different suggestion. Best, WWB Too (Talk · COI) 11:51, 4 October 2022 (UTC)

Proposed expansion of Early career section

Greetings, I have a new suggestion to make, which is expanding the Early career section to include more information about Mr. Rubin's roles on Wall Street, in New York politics, and national politics prior to joining the Clinton administration. The current section includes only the first paragraph; I propose adding one new clause to that, about his work at Goldman, and then two additional paragraphs. The first is about his involvement in the 1984 and 1992 Democratic presidential campaigns; the second is about his service with the NYSE, SEC, and advisory positions with high-profile elected officials. If another editor agrees this is an improvement, the following can directly replace the current section. Please note, the first two sources are already in use as named references, with the full citation for each being elsewhere in the existing article:

Early career Rubin was an attorney at the firm of Cleary, Gottlieb, Steen & Hamilton in New York City from 1964 to 1966 before joining Goldman Sachs in 1966 as an associate in the risk arbitrage department. He later served as co-chief operating officer, and became co-senior partner and co-chairman in 1990. Rubin served as New York finance chairman for the Walter Mondale presidential campaign in 1984 and headed the host committee for the 1992 Democratic National Convention in New York. He served on the board of directors of the New York Stock Exchange, the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission Market Oversight and Financial Services Advisory Committee, and advisory panels for New York Gov. Mario Cuomo and Mayor David Dinkins. References

As always, due to my financial COI regarding Mr. Rubin, I will not make any direct changes to this article myself. Please let me know if you have any questions, I'll be happy to answer. Thanks, WWB Too (Talk · COI) 12:42, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

Implemented; do we have date ranges for the roles listed in the 3rd paragraph? Not sure if all of those were all limited to prior to 1993, but would be helpful to have clarification. Spencer^T•C 04:47, 19 November 2022 (UTC)

Thanks Spencer, I do appreciate it. I'll see if I can source dates; the AP story didn't include them, but some source out there might. I'll tag you back in if I find them. Best, WWB Too (Talk · COI) 19:34, 19 November 2022 (UTC)

Hi Spencer, as it happens I could not find any third-party sources with more specific dates. They may well be deep in a newspaper archive, but I wasn't able to find them in my own research. Best, WWB Too (Talk · COI) 21:02, 19 January 2023 (UTC)

Suggested changes to Other work section

I have a handful of suggestions for the Other work section that I think will improve it overall. For this request I recommend some small changes to the first paragraph, rewriting the second paragraph to be more encyclopedic, and striking the third entirely. I'll use the table format that Spencer had previously suggested to make them easy to compare:

Existing text	Revised text with references	Reason for suggested change
In 2001, Rubin received an honorary doctoral degree from Harvard University, and on July 1, 2002, he became a member of Harvard Corporation, the executive governing board of Harvard University. He served as a member of the Harvard Corporation board until June 2014 and continues to serve on its finance committee.	On July 1, 2002, Rubin became a member of Harvard Corporation, the executive governing board of Harvard University. He served as a member of the Harvard Corporation board until June 2014, and as of 2018, served on its finance committee.	In the first place, I suggest removing the honorary doctorate; it's not exactly work, and arguably trivial compared to his other accomplishments. Additionally, no third-party reliable source confirms that Mr. Rubin still continues to serve on the Harvard finance committee. In fact, his bio at The Hamilton Project states that he only served on the committee until 2022. But since this is a primary source, I recommend using the "as of" construction to ensure accuracy.
Rubin has written a memoir, In an Uncertain World: Tough Choices from Wall Street to Washington (ISBN 978-0-375-50585-0), co-written by Jacob Weisberg. It was a New York Times bestseller as well as one of Business Week's ten best business books of 2003.	Rubin's memoir, In an Uncertain World: Tough Choices from Wall Street to Washington, co-written by Jacob Weisberg, was a New York Times bestseller as well as one of Business Week's ten best business books of 2003.	I have changed the tense from present perfect to past. This suggestion removes the ISBN of Rubin's book from the prose of the article, as WP:BIBLIOGRAPHY suggests it should only be included when helpful.
Rubin had been suggested as a possible appointee to a cabinet post for President Barack Obama. Rubin, alongside Austan Goolsbee and Paul Volcker, was one of Obama's economic advisers.	[delete]	This passage does not add much value, as the first sentence is purely speculation which did not come to pass. Additionally, a previous Cabinet secretary advising an incoming president of the same party is pretty routine, and was not a major focus. I recommend cutting this, as WP:NOTEVERYTHING verifiable necessarily belongs.

References

Please let me know if you have any questions. As always, due to my conflict of interest I won't make any direct edits. Thanks in advance for your consideration. Best, WWB Too (Talk · COI) 21:00, 19 January 2023 (UTC)

Go ahead: I have reviewed these proposed changes and suggest that you go ahead and make the proposed changes to the page. Melmann 12:36, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

Hi Melmann, I really appreciate you taking the time to review and give me the go-ahead. However, I am so cautious about never making direct edits from this account (which I use only for COI situations) that I would very strongly prefer not to make the edit myself. I realize plenty of editors are fine with the "go for it" approach—and I am perfectly aware the COI guidelines permit this—but some COI-skeptical editors disagree, hence my caution. Would you be willing to make the edit yourself? To make this absolutely as easy as possible, I've put the wikitext in the box below, which you can copy without having to click "edit source", and the link to edit the live section in the article is here.

On July 1, 2002, Rubin became a member of [[Harvard Corporation]], the executive governing board of [[Harvard University]].<ref>{{cite news|url=http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/2002/04.11/09-rubin.html|publisher=[[Harvard Gazette]]|date=2002-04-11|access-date=2008-02-02|title=Rubin '60 is newest Corporation member}}</ref> He served as a member of the Harvard Corporation board until June 2014, and as of 2018, served on its finance committee.<ref>{{cite news|url=http://harvardmagazine.com/2014/01/brevia|work=Harvard Magazine|date=January 2014|access-date=2015-05-26|title=Reischauer, Rubin leave Harvard Corporation, Rhodes Scholars, Nobelists}}</ref><ref name="Wapo-Rubin-120702">{{cite news |title=Robert Rubin |url=https://www.washingtonpost.com/postlive/robert-rubin/2012/07/02/gJQAMmMADY_story.html |work=[[The Washington Post]] |date=July 2, 2012 |access-date=August 19, 2020}}</ref><ref name="WSJ-Demos-180608">{{cite news |title=Robert Rubin's Legacy Up for Debate 10 Years After Citigroup Bailout |last1=Demos |first1=Telis |url=https://www.wsj.com/articles/robert-rubins-legacy-up-for-debate-10-years-after-citigroup-bailout-1528462800 |work=[[The Wall Street Journal]] |date=June 8, 2018 |access-date=August 18, 2020}}</ref> Rubin's memoir, ''In an Uncertain World: Tough Choices from Wall Street to Washington'', co-written by [[Jacob Weisberg]], was a [[New York Times Best Seller list|''New York Times'' bestseller]] as well as one of ''[[Business Week]]''{{'}}s ten best business books of 2003.<ref name="citigroup"/>

Hopefully you'll be agreeable to that. If not, that's OK, I'll wait for an uninvolved editor who can do so. Thanks, WWB Too (Talk · COI) 19:32, 22 January 2023 (UTC)

 Done Concur with the above. Spencer^T•C 00:51, 9 February 2023 (UTC)

Thank you, Spencer and Melmann. Much appreciated. WWB Too (Talk · COI) 13:22, 9 February 2023 (UTC)

Additional changes for Other work

Hello, I'm back again with a few suggestions for the final paragraph of the Other work section. The paragraph has six sentences, and my changes would affect four of them. The table format has worked well for recent requests, and I think is the clearest way to present these as well:

Existing text without references	Revised text with references	Reason for suggested change
As of 2020, Rubin is actively engaged as a founder of The Hamilton Project, an economic policy think tank that produces research and proposals on how to create a growing economy that benefits more Americans.	As of 2023, Rubin is actively engaged as a founder of The Hamilton Project, an economic policy think tank that produces research and proposals on how to create a growing economy that benefits more Americans.	I've added a RS demonstrating that Rubin founded The Hamilton Project. The existing source stating his involvement as of 2020 is WP:PRIMARY, and I acknowledge that so is the new source; however, that section of Wikipedia policy states such sources are permissible "to make straightforward, descriptive statements of facts" and I believe that is the case here.
He is co-chairman emeritus of the Council on Foreign Relations.	(no change)	This statement is accurate and supported by the Washington Post source that appears two sentences later.
Rubin also serves as chairman of the board of the Local Initiatives Support Corporation, a community development support organization.	(remove)	This sentence is now redundant with the LISC section earlier in the article.
He serves as a trustee of Mount Sinai Health System.	He serves as a trustee of Mount Sinai Health System and as co-chair of the advisory board of the Peter G. Peterson Foundation.	A mention of Mr. Rubin's board service with the PGP Foundation currently exists at the end of the paragraph, albeit without a citation. The Foundation is a notable organization, and Mr. Rubin's role there is a significant one, however the most trustworthy source for this information happens to be primary so that is the source I have provided. This too is "straightforward, descriptive" and so I believe permissible by policy.
Additionally, Rubin serves as a senior counselor at Centerview Partners, an investment banking advisory firm based in New York City.	(no change)	This is accurate and cited to a RS.
And he has been member of the advisory board of the Peter G. Peterson Foundation.	(remove)	Ungrammatical sentence fragment and redundant with the adjustment two sentences earlier.

Please note that not all references below appear fully formed; these are named references repeated from elsewhere in the existing article.

References

If the above sounds good, and you'd like to copy the code verbatim to replace, it can be found in the collapse box below.

Markup code

As of 2023, Rubin is actively engaged as a founder of [[The Hamilton Project]], an economic policy think tank that produces research and proposals on how to create a growing economy that benefits more [[Americans]].<ref name="Politico-Smith-070204">{{cite news |title=Strategists Bank on Budget-Neutral Policies |last1=Smith |first1=Ben |url=https://www.politico.com/story/2007/04/strategists-bank-on-budget-neutral-policies-003407 |work=[[Politico]] |date=March 6, 2017 |access-date=February 16, 2023}}</ref><ref>{{cite web |title=Robert E. Rubin |url=https://www.hamiltonproject.org/people/robert_e._rubin |website=The Hamilton Project |access-date=December 21, 2022}}</ref> He is co-chairman emeritus of the [[Council on Foreign Relations]]. He serves as a trustee of [[Mount Sinai Health System]] and as co-chair of the advisory board of the [[Peter G. Peterson Foundation]].<ref name="Wapo-Rubin-120702" /><ref name="PGPF-021623">{{cite web |url=https://www.pgpf.org/about |title=About the Peter G. Peterson Foundation |author=<!--Not stated--> |date= |website=Peter G. Peterson Foundation |publisher= |access-date=February 16, 2023 |quote=}}</ref> Additionally, Rubin serves as a senior counselor at [[Centerview Partners]], an investment banking advisory firm based in New York City.<ref name="WSJ-Demos-180608" />

Please let me know if you have any questions. As always, due to my conflict of interest I won't make any direct edits. Thanks in advance for your help. Spencer, if you have the opportunity to review this one, here is a courtesy notification. :) WWB Too (Talk · COI) 22:50, 16 February 2023 (UTC)

 Done WWB Too Note how I re-wrote the first sentence; IMO "how to create a growing economy that benefits more Americans" is quite vague (wouldn't any economic think tank have the same goal?) The Politico article makes it seem like it is a centrist think tank but doesn't explicitly say so (nor does the article on Wikipedia) so I didn't use that characterization here in the article. Spencer^T•C 04:59, 17 February 2023 (UTC)

@WWB Too: Just wanted to add that for some reason the ping didn't work with the template. I'm not sure why, try using the template {{ping}} next time and see if that works? Usually {{u}} works for me so I'm not sure what happened there. Spencer^T•C 05:03, 17 February 2023 (UTC)

@Spencer: Thanks for letting me know, I'll adjust my template use accordingly. And thank you for making the update. I do actually have one follow-up suggestion, and that is changing "founded" to "co-founded". (The original called him "a founder", which is a little ambiguous and easy to overlook.) Mr. Rubin co-founded it with Roger Altman and Peter R. Orszag, as verified in the fourth paragraph of this 2006 Washington Post column. If helpful, here's a formatted reference:

<ref name="Meyerson-WaPo">{{cite news |title=Hamiltonian Democrats |last1=Meyerson |first1=Harold |url=https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/2006/04/19/hamiltonian-democrats/085f0020-57d8-4fdd-9d65-871343e0ff15/ |work=The Washington Post |date=April 19, 2006 |accessdate=February 20, 2023}}</ref>

Thanks, WWB Too (Talk · COI) 19:42, 20 February 2023 (UTC)

 Already done here. HouseBlaster^talk 19:17, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

One more request for Other work

I've got one more suggestion for the Other work section, and it has three steps:

1. Move the paragraph that is currently last in the section up to become the third paragraph
2. Add a new paragraph to immediately follow it, as shown below
3. Add a new top-level section immediately below that, called Policy views, a more accurate summation of the remaining paragraphs

Here is the new paragraph I suggest adding:

Rubin was a member of the [[Africa Progress Panel]] (APP), a group of ten notable individuals who advocated for equitable and sustainable development in Africa.<ref name="Reuters-APP">{{cite news |title=France "bad", Italy "useless" on aid goals - Geldof |url=https://www.reuters.com/article/idINIndia-54920020110215 |access-date=December 21, 2022 |work=Reuters |date=February 15, 2011 |language=en}}</ref> Rubin also served on the Global Citizenship Commission, convened by former British Prime Minister [[Gordon Brown]], which reexamined and proposed an update to the United Nations' 1948 [[Universal Declaration on Human Rights]].<ref name="WEF-Waldron-160422">{{cite news |title=Why we all need to begin thinking like global citizens |last1=Waldron |first1=Jeremy |url=https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/04/why-we-all-need-to-begin-thinking-like-global-citizens |work=[[World Economic Forum]] |date=April 22, 2016 |access-date=August 19, 2020}}</ref><ref name="BelfastTelegraph-131001">{{cite news |title=Malala to attend rights commission |url=https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/uk/malala-to-attend-rights-commission-29622320.html |work=[[Belfast Telegraph]] |date=October 1, 2013 |access-date=August 19, 2020}}</ref>

For reference, here's how I would expect it to look afterward:

Other work

On July 1, 2002, Rubin became a member of Harvard Corporation, the executive governing board of Harvard University. He served as a member of the Harvard Corporation board until June 2014, and as of 2018, served on its finance committee.

Rubin's memoir, In an Uncertain World: Tough Choices from Wall Street to Washington, co-written by Jacob Weisberg, was a New York Times bestseller as well as one of Business Week's ten best business books of 2003.

As of 2023, Rubin is involved in the Hamilton Project, an economic policy think tank he co-founded in 2006. He is co-chairman emeritus of the Council on Foreign Relations. He serves as a trustee of Mount Sinai Health System and as co-chair of the advisory board of the Peter G. Peterson Foundation. Additionally, Rubin serves as a senior counselor at Centerview Partners, an investment banking advisory firm based in New York City.

Rubin was a member of the Africa Progress Panel (APP), a group of ten notable individuals who advocated for equitable and sustainable development in Africa. Rubin also served on the Global Citizenship Commission, convened by former British Prime Minister Gordon Brown, which reexamined and proposed an update to the United Nations' 1948 Universal Declaration on Human Rights.

Policy views

In January 2014, Secretary Rubin joined former Senator Olympia Snowe...

References

As always, due to my COI with the subject, I won't make any direct edits to the article. I welcome any uninvolved editor to review, but also adding a ping for @Spencer: in case you have an opportunity to review this. Thanks, WWB Too (Talk · COI) 17:47, 2 March 2023 (UTC)

 Done WWB_Too I took out "notable" from "group of ten notable individuals" to better keep in neutral and added a little more clarifying details about what the APP did. See my edit and propose any edits if there is something you think should be changed. Best, Spencer^T•C 22:42, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

Hi @Spencer: thanks for reviewing! I'm fine with your changes; if you were inclined to make any other modification, I'd suggest noting the APP was chaired by Kofi Annan. I notice the next sentence has long referenced Gordon Brown as convening the GCC, so it would create a nice parallel. Up to you, though. Cheers, WWB Too (Talk · COI) 19:31, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

Request for Policy views section

Hello again, I'd like to make a suggestion for the newly-established Policy views section of the article. At present, the existing paragraphs largely discuss letters he has joined and speeches he has given; I think the reader's understanding of Mr. Rubin's policy perspectives would benefit from including a general overview of the stances that informed his time in government, plus a more recent action taken alongside other past Treasury secretaries.

Here is a rendered version of how it would look in the entry—just following the header, and preceding the paragraph about the 2014 climate change letter—and please note, the "empty" cite is a named ref already present in the current article:

Policy views Rubin is an advocate for fiscal discipline and public investment, and worked to turn the federal budget deficit to a surplus while Treasury Secretary. He has advocated against high budget deficits and has been credited with developing the strong dollar policy that has been a cornerstone of U.S. economic policy since his tenure at Treasury. Rubin has supported progressive tax measures and expanding earned income tax credits to benefit low- and middle-income Americans. He has also opposed tax cuts that disproportionately benefit high earners, including those enacted during the administrations of George W. Bush and Donald Trump. During the Biden administration, Rubin joined with four former Treasury secretaries to support the Inflation Reduction Act and supported a permanent refundable child tax credit with former Treasury Secretary Jacob Lew. In January 2014, Secretary Rubin joined... References

Inside the box below is the markup itself, for convenience. It includes just what I recommend adding, not including the header or start of the next graf:

Extended content

Rubin is an advocate for fiscal discipline and public investment, and worked to turn the federal budget deficit to a surplus while Treasury Secretary.<ref name="Fortune-Loomis-160313">{{cite news |title=The Larger-Than-Life Life of Robert Rubin |last1=Loomis |first1=Carol J. |url=https://fortune.com/2016/03/13/robert-rubin-life/ |work=[[Fortune (magazine)|Fortune]] |date=March 13, 2016 |access-date=August 31, 2020}}</ref> He has advocated against high budget deficits and has been credited with developing the [[strong dollar policy]] that has been a cornerstone of U.S. economic policy since his tenure at Treasury.<ref>{{cite news |last1=Wolk |first1=Martin |title=Rubin warns of a deficit's ripples |work=NBC News |date=January 13, 2004 |access-date=February 6, 2023 |url=https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna3948923}}</ref><ref name="Reuters-Wroughton-180124">{{cite news |title=U.S. 'strong dollar' policy in question |last1=Wroughton |first1=Lesley |last2=Lange |first2=Jason |url=https://www.reuters.com/article/global-forex-dollar/u-s-strong-dollar-policy-in-question-idUSL2N1PJ2EO |work=[[Reuters]] |date=January 24, 2018 |access-date=August 31, 2020}}</ref> Rubin has supported progressive tax measures and expanding earned income tax credits to benefit low- and middle-income Americans.<ref name="TaxNotes-Thorndike-141201"/> He has also opposed tax cuts that disproportionately benefit high earners, including those enacted during the administrations of [[Presidency of George W. Bush#Bush_tax_cuts|George W. Bush]] and [[Presidency of Donald Trump#Taxation|Donald Trump]].<ref name="CNN-Alesci-170306">{{cite news |title=Former Treasury secretary: Trump will hurt the economy |last1=Alesci |first1=Cristina |url=https://money.cnn.com/2017/03/06/news/economy/robert-rubin-interview-trump-economy/ |work=[[CNN Money]] |date=March 6, 2017 |access-date=August 31, 2020}}</ref><ref name="Bloomberg-Stimulus-100809">{{cite news |title=Two former Treasury chiefs wary of another stimulus |url=https://archive.triblive.com/local/local-news/two-former-treasury-chiefs-wary-of-another-stimulus/ |work=[[Bloomberg News]] |date=August 9, 2010 |access-date=August 31, 2020}}</ref><ref>{{cite news |last1=Warner |first1=Margaret |title=Tax cuts: Robert Rubin |work=PBS Newshour |url=https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/tax-cuts-robert-rubin |date=February 21, 2001 |access-date=February 6, 2023}}</ref> During the [[Presidency of Joe Biden|Biden administration]], Rubin joined with four former Treasury secretaries to support the [[Inflation Reduction Act]] and supported a permanent refundable child tax credit with former Treasury Secretary [[Jacob Lew]].<ref>{{cite news |last1=Lawder |first1=David |title=Former U.S. Treasury secretaries back drugs, climate, tax bill |work=Reuters |url=https://www.reuters.com/markets/us/former-us-treasury-secretaries-back-drugs-climate-tax-bill-2022-08-03/ |date=August 3, 2022 |access-date=February 6, 2023}}</ref><ref>{{cite news |last1=Konish |first1=Lorie |work=CNBC |date=May 5, 2022 |access-date=February 6, 2023 |url=https://www.cnbc.com/2022/05/05/why-the-child-tax-credit-has-not-been-expanded-despite-democrats-support.html |title=Democrats are pushing to renew the expanded child tax credit. Here’s why that hasn’t happened yet}}</ref>

As always, due to my COI with the subject, I won't make any direct edits to the article. I welcome any uninvolved editor to consider it, and also @Spencer:: I welcome your review, if you have time. Thanks, WWB Too (Talk · COI) 14:50, 20 March 2023 (UTC)

 Not done for now: Looks mostly good, but Source 4 is missing. Could you provide that please? Actualcpscm (talk) 22:36, 20 March 2023 (UTC)

Hi @Actualcpscm: I noted above that the citation isn't missing—"the 'empty' cite is a named ref already present in the current article". For convenience, a link to its usage in the live article is here. Hope you'll take another look. Best, WWB Too (Talk · COI) 00:03, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

Hi WWB_Too, while the information provided is suitable for inclusion in the article, my concern is that there is not appropriate depth, such as by mentioning criticism of Rubin's policy positions. For example, this WSJ article highlights some of these criticisms, and being Centrist in some policies, I think it would be appropriate to highlight how he received criticism from both sides of the political aisle. I realize some of these are mentioned elsewhere in the article, but for example, where the proposed changes above mention tax cuts, the WSJ article highlights how Republicans criticized Rubin for not going far enough with proposed tax cuts, and could potentially be included there. Another reference that could be used, from the New York Times: [1]. I realize that equal validity can create false balance, but I believe that in this case, some additional depth with commentary related to these policy positions would be important. Spencer^T•C 20:34, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

Hi Spencer, thanks for the feedback, I appreciate the thoughtful reply. If you don't mind, I'll take some time to think on this. Best, WWB Too (Talk · COI) 19:04, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

Hi Spencer, thanks for your patience. I'm back today with an addition that I think captures the intent of your feedback. Below, I've highlighted the added content so it's easy to identify:

Policy views Rubin is an advocate for fiscal discipline and public investment, and worked to turn the federal budget deficit to a surplus while Treasury Secretary. Rubin has advocated against high budget deficits and has been credited with developing the strong dollar policy that has been a cornerstone of U.S. economic policy since his tenure at Treasury. He has been described as a centrist, pro-business, "pro-growth Democrat" by The New York Times. His policies as Treasury Secretary have been credited with driving American economic growth in the 1990s. However, they have also been criticized by some Republicans for not cutting taxes enough while some Democrats said Rubin's policies contributed to the 2008 financial crisis. Rubin has supported progressive tax measures and expanding earned income tax credits to benefit low- and middle-income Americans. He has also opposed tax cuts that disproportionately benefit high earners, including those enacted during the administrations of George W. Bush and Donald Trump. During the Biden administration, Rubin joined with four former Treasury secretaries to support the Inflation Reduction Act and supported a permanent refundable child tax credit with former Treasury Secretary Jacob Lew. In April 2016, Rubin was one of eight former Treasury secretaries who called on the United Kingdom to remain a member of the European Union ahead of the June 2016 Referendum. References

I've put the markup in the collapsible box below for easy access.

Extended content

Rubin is an advocate for fiscal discipline and public investment, and worked to turn the federal budget deficit to a surplus while Treasury Secretary.<ref name="Fortune-Loomis-160313">{{cite news |title=The Larger-Than-Life Life of Robert Rubin |last1=Loomis |first1=Carol J. |url=https://fortune.com/2016/03/13/robert-rubin-life/ |work=[[Fortune (magazine)|Fortune]] |date=March 13, 2016 |access-date=August 31, 2020}}</ref> Rubin has advocated against high budget deficits and has been credited with developing the [[strong dollar policy]] that has been a cornerstone of U.S. economic policy since his tenure at Treasury.<ref>{{cite news |last1=Wolk |first1=Martin |title=Rubin warns of a deficit's ripples |work=NBC News |date=January 13, 2004 |access-date=February 6, 2023 |url=https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna3948923}}</ref><ref name="Reuters-Wroughton-180124">{{cite news |title=U.S. 'strong dollar' policy in question |last1=Wroughton |first1=Lesley |last2=Lange |first2=Jason |url=https://www.reuters.com/article/global-forex-dollar/u-s-strong-dollar-policy-in-question-idUSL2N1PJ2EO |work=[[Reuters]] |date=January 24, 2018 |access-date=August 31, 2020}}</ref> He has been described as a centrist, pro-business, "pro-growth Democrat" by ''The New York Times''..<ref name="Greenhouse">{{cite news |title=When Robert Rubin Talks… |url=https://www.nytimes.com/1993/07/25/business/when-robert-rubin-talks.html |last1=Greenhouse |first1=Steven |work=The New York Times |date=July 25, 1993 |access-date=March 22, 2023}}</ref> His policies as Treasury Secretary have been credited with driving American economic growth in the 1990s.<ref name="TaxNotes-Thorndike-141201"/> However, they have also been criticized by some Republicans for not cutting taxes enough while some Democrats said Rubin's policies contributed to the 2008 financial crisis.<ref name="WSJ-Demos-180608"/> Rubin has supported progressive tax measures and expanding earned income tax credits to benefit low- and middle-income Americans.<ref name="TaxNotes-Thorndike-141201">{{cite news |title=Robert Rubin: Stealth Liberal or Wall Street's Stalking Horse? |last1=Thorndike |first1=Joseph J. |work=[[Tax Analysts|Tax Notes]] |date=December 1, 2014}}</ref> He has also opposed tax cuts that disproportionately benefit high earners, including those enacted during the administrations of [[Presidency of George W. Bush#Bush_tax_cuts|George W. Bush]] and [[Presidency of Donald Trump#Taxation|Donald Trump]].<ref name="CNN-Alesci-170306">{{cite news |title=Former Treasury secretary: Trump will hurt the economy |last1=Alesci |first1=Cristina |url=https://money.cnn.com/2017/03/06/news/economy/robert-rubin-interview-trump-economy/ |work=[[CNN Money]] |date=March 6, 2017 |access-date=August 31, 2020}}</ref><ref name="Bloomberg-Stimulus-100809">{{cite news |title=Two former Treasury chiefs wary of another stimulus |url=https://archive.triblive.com/local/local-news/two-former-treasury-chiefs-wary-of-another-stimulus/ |work=[[Bloomberg News]] |date=August 9, 2010 |access-date=August 31, 2020}}</ref><ref>{{cite news |last1=Warner |first1=Margaret |title=Tax cuts: Robert Rubin |work=PBS Newshour |url=https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/tax-cuts-robert-rubin |date=February 21, 2001 |access-date=February 6, 2023}}</ref> During the [[Presidency of Joe Biden|Biden administration]], Rubin joined with four former Treasury secretaries to support the [[Inflation Reduction Act]] and supported a permanent refundable child tax credit with former Treasury Secretary [[Jacob Lew]].<ref>{{cite news |last1=Lawder |first1=David |title=Former U.S. Treasury secretaries back drugs, climate, tax bill |work=Reuters |url=https://www.reuters.com/markets/us/former-us-treasury-secretaries-back-drugs-climate-tax-bill-2022-08-03/ |date=August 3, 2022 |access-date=February 6, 2023}}</ref><ref>{{cite news |last1=Konish |first1=Lorie |work=CNBC |date=May 5, 2022 |access-date=February 6, 2023 |url=https://www.cnbc.com/2022/05/05/why-the-child-tax-credit-has-not-been-expanded-despite-democrats-support.html |title=Democrats are pushing to renew the expanded child tax credit. Here’s why that hasn’t happened yet}}</ref> In April 2016, Rubin was one of eight former Treasury secretaries who called on the United Kingdom to remain a member of the [[European Union]] ahead of the [[2016 United Kingdom European Union membership referendum|June 2016 Referendum]].<ref name="BBC-Brexit-160420">{{cite news|title=Staying in EU 'best hope' for UK's future say ex-US Treasury secretaries|url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36087583|work=[[BBC News]]|date=April 20, 2016}}</ref>

Please let me know what you think and if you have any further questions. WWB Too (Talk · COI) 18:28, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

I think this should be ready with one change: can you clarify who stated that his policies drove American economic growth in the 1990s? Spencer^T•C 01:40, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for following up so soon, Spencer! And glad I'm close to the mark. In the current draft, the claim is made by the tax historian Joseph J. Thorndike, author of the Tax Notes column cited. That said, for such a large claim, it might be better still to cite reporting from national news sources than just a single columnist.

To that end, I've located articles in the Chicago Tribune (" Rubin, one of the chief architects of the 1990s Wall Street boom...") and the Associated Press as published by The Washington Post ("Rubin, credited with many of the policies that have spurred a lasting boom in the U.S. economy..."). I assume in this case we'd remove this usage of Tax Notes.

A better sentence might read something like: Rubin's policies as Treasury Secretary have been credited by the Chicago Tribune and Associated Press with driving American economic growth in the 1990s."

Markup here for easy access:

Extended content

Rubin's policies as Treasury Secretary have been credited by the ''Chicago Tribune'' and [[Associated Press]] with driving American economic growth in the 1990s.<ref name="Goozner-091799">{{cite news |last1=Goozner |first1=Merrill |title=Rubin puts expertise to work for poor areas |url=https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1999-09-17-9909170143-story.html |access-date=May 4, 2023 |work=Chicago Tribune |date=September 17, 1999}}</ref><ref name="Fournier-051299">{{cite news |last1=Fournier |first1=Ron |title=Treasury Secretary Rubin resigns |url=https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/govt/admin/stories/rubin051299.htm |access-date=May 4, 2023 |work=The Washington Post |agency=Associated Press |date=May 12, 1999}}</ref> References

What do you think of that? WWB Too (Talk · COI) 19:19, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

 Done I made some slight edits to remove the passive voice and combine some ideas into bigger paragraphs, but for the most part left as-is. I don't think the policies he implemented in the 1990s need further description in this section since they are described further up in the article. Spencer^T•C 02:42, 12 May 2023 (UTC)

Thanks Spencer, your changes make sense to me, and I appreciate the help. WWB Too (Talk · COI) 11:56, 15 May 2023 (UTC)