Talk:Road to Ruin (Ramones album)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Road to Ruin (Ramones album)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Seabuckthorn (talk · contribs) 11:32, 12 February 2014 (UTC)
Nominator: CrowzRSA

Hi! My review for this article will be here shortly. --Seabuckthorn ♥ 11:32, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

1: Well-written

• a. Prose is "clear and concise", without copyvios, or spelling and grammar errors:
• b. MoS compliance for lead, layout, words to watch, fiction, and lists:

WP:LEAD:

Check for WP:LEAD: Check for Correct Structure of Lead Section:  Done Check for Citations (WP:LEADCITE):  Done Check for Introductory text:  Done Check for Provide an accessible overview (MOS:INTRO):  Done Major Point 1: Conception "It was the first Ramones album to feature new drummer Marky Ramone, who replaced founding member Tommy Ramone. Tommy left due to lack of album sales but stayed with the band to produce the album with Ed Stasium. The artwork's concept was designed by Ramones fan Gus MacDonald, and later modified by John Holmstrom to included Marky instead of Tommy." (summarised well in the lead) Major Point 2: Lyrics and compositions "The songs on Road to Ruin were considered by both fans and critics as an attempt to get the band more airplay. The album incorporated musical elements which were unheard of in punk rock, such as guitar solos and ballads." (summarised well in the lead) Major Point 3: Reception "The difference in style caused for mixed reviews by critics, with many pointing out that the band was trying to sell more records through a change in form. This attempt by the band failed, as Road to Ruin debuted at 103 on the Billboard 200, nearly 50 places behind it's predecessor Rocket to Russia." (summarised well in the lead) Check for Relative emphasis:  Done Major Point 1: Conception "It was the first Ramones album to feature new drummer Marky Ramone, who replaced founding member Tommy Ramone. Tommy left due to lack of album sales but stayed with the band to produce the album with Ed Stasium. The artwork's concept was designed by Ramones fan Gus MacDonald, and later modified by John Holmstrom to included Marky instead of Tommy." (the lead gives due weight as is given in the body) Major Point 2: Lyrics and compositions "The songs on Road to Ruin were considered by both fans and critics as an attempt to get the band more airplay. The album incorporated musical elements which were unheard of in punk rock, such as guitar solos and ballads." (the lead gives due weight as is given in the body) Major Point 3: Reception "The difference in style caused for mixed reviews by critics, with many pointing out that the band was trying to sell more records through a change in form. This attempt by the band failed, as Road to Ruin debuted at 103 on the Billboard 200, nearly 50 places behind it's predecessor Rocket to Russia." (the lead gives due weight as is given in the body) Check for Opening paragraph (MOS:BEGIN):  Done Check for First sentence (WP:LEADSENTENCE):  Done "Road to Ruin is the fourth studio album by the American punk rock band The Ramones, released on September 21, 1978 through Sire Records." Check for Format of the first sentence (MOS:BOLDTITLE):  Done Check for Proper names and titles:  Done Check for Abbreviations and synonyms (MOS:BOLDSYN): None Check for Foreign language (MOS:FORLANG): None Check for Pronunciation: None Check for Contextual links (MOS:CONTEXTLINK):  Done Check for Biographies: NA Check for Organisms: NA Check for Biographies of living persons: NA Check for Alternative names (MOS:LEADALT):  Done Check for Non-English titles: Check for Usage in first sentence: Check for Separate section usage: Check for Length (WP:LEADLENGTH):  Done Check for Clutter (WP:LEADCLUTTER): None

WP:LAYOUT:

Done Check for WP:LAYOUT:  Done Check for Body sections: WP:BODY, MOS:BODY.  Done Check for Headings and sections:  Done Check for Section templates and summary style:  Done Check for Paragraphs (MOS:PARAGRAPHS):  Done Check for Standard appendices and footers (MOS:APPENDIX):  Done Check for Order of sections (WP:ORDER):  Done Check for Works or publications:  Done Check for See also section (MOS:SEEALSO):  Done Check for Notes and references (WP:FNNR):  Done Check for Further reading (WP:FURTHER):  Done Check for External links (WP:LAYOUTEL):  Done Check for Links to sister projects:  Done Check for Navigation templates:  Done Check for Formatting:  Done Check for Images (WP:LAYIM):  Done Check for Links:  Done Check for Horizontal rule (WP:LINE):  Done

WP:WTW:

Done Check for WP:WTW:  Done Check for Words that may introduce bias:  Done Check for Puffery (WP:PEA):  Done Check for Contentious labels (WP:LABEL):  Done Check for Unsupported attributions (WP:WEASEL):  Done Check for Expressions of doubt (WP:ALLEGED):  Done Check for Editorializing (MOS:OPED):  Done Check for Synonyms for said (WP:SAY):  Done Check for Expressions that lack precision:  Done Check for Euphemisms (WP:EUPHEMISM):  Done Check for Clichés and idioms (WP:IDIOM):  Done Check for Relative time references (WP:REALTIME):  Done Check for Neologisms (WP:PEA): None Check for Offensive material (WP:F***):  Done Check for WP:MOSFICT:  Done Check for Real-world perspective (WP:Real world):  Done Check for Primary and secondary information (WP:PASI):  Done Check for Contextual presentation (MOS:PLOT):  Done

WP:EMBED:
Done Prose is preferred over list (WP:PROSE): Check for Tables (MOS:TABLES):

2: Verifiable with no original research

• a. Has an appropriate reference section: Yes
• b. Citation to reliable sources where necessary: excellent (Thorough check on Google. Cross-checked with other FAs)

WP:RS:

Done Check for WP:RS:  Done Cross-checked with other FAs: Reign in Blood & Still Reigning Check for the material (WP:RSVETTING): (not contentious)  Done Is it contentious?: No Does the ref indeed support the material?: Check for the author (WP:RSVETTING):  Done Who is the author?: Does the author have a Wikipedia article?: What are the author's academic credentials and professional experience?: What else has the author published?: Is the author, or this work, cited in other reliable sources? In academic works?: Check for the publication (WP:RSVETTING):  Done Check for Self-published sources (WP:SPS):

WP:MINREF:
Done Check for inline citations WP:MINREF:  Done Check for Direct quotations:  Done Check for Likely to be challenged:  Done Check for Contentious material about living persons (WP:BLP): NA

• c. No original research:  Done

WP:NOR:
Done Check for primary sources (WP:PRIMARY):  Done Check for synthesis (WP:SYN):  Done Check for original images (WP:OI):  Done

3: Broad in its coverage

a. Major aspects:

Done Cross-checked with other FAs: Reign in Blood & Still Reigning Check for Article scope as defined by reliable sources: Check for The extent of the subject matter in these RS: Check for Out of scope: Check for The range of material that belongs in the article: Check for All material that is notable is covered: Check for All material that is referenced is covered: Check for All material that a reader would be likely to agree matches the specified scope is covered: Check for The most general scope that summarises essentially all knowledge: Check for Stay on topic and no wandering off-topic (WP:OFFTOPIC): The first paragraph of the Conception section "After the band's previous album … Marc Bell went under the alias of Marky Ramone" appears somewhat offtopic to me. I’m not sure how it’s relevant to the conception of the album. The drummer Tommy Ramone’s replacement process can be, I believe, skimmed if not skipped.

b. Focused:
Done Check for Readability issues (WP:LENGTH): Check for Article size (WP:TOO LONG!):

4: Neutral

WP:NPOV:

Done 4. Fair representation without bias:  Done Check for POV (WP:YESPOV):  Done Check for naming (WP:POVNAMING):  Done Check for structure (WP:STRUCTURE):  Done Check for Due and undue weight (WP:DUE):  Done Check for Balancing aspects (WP:BALASPS):  Done Check for Giving "equal validity" (WP:VALID):  Done Check for Balance (WP:YESPOV):  Done Check for Impartial tone (WP:IMPARTIAL):  Done Check for Describing aesthetic opinions (WP:SUBJECTIVE):  Done Check for Words to watch (WP:YESPOV):  Done Check for Attributing and specifying biased statements (WP:ATTRIBUTEPOV):  Done Check for Fringe theories and pseudoscience (WP:PSCI): None Check for Religion (WP:RNPOV): None

5: Stable: No edit wars, etc: Yes

6: Images  Done (NFC with a valid FUR)

Images:

Done 6: Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid fair use rationales are provided for non-free content:  Done Check for copyright tags (WP:TAGS):  Done Check for copyright status:  Done Check for non-free content (WP:NFC):  Done Check for valid fair use rationales (WP:FUR):  Done 6: Images are provided if possible and are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions:  Done Check for image relevance (WP:IMAGE RELEVANCE):  Done Check for Images for the lead (WP:LEADIMAGE):  Done Check for suitable captions (WP:CAPTION):  Done

Thanks, CrowzRSA, very much for your diligence here. I do have some insights based on the above checklist that I think will improve the article:

• The first paragraph of the Conception section "After the band's previous album … Marc Bell went under the alias of Marky Ramone" appears somewhat offtopic to me. I’m not sure how it’s relevant to the conception of the album. The drummer Tommy Ramone’s replacement process can be, I believe, skimmed if not skipped.

• I took a few things out, but I would think since it is the band's first change in line-up it woould be a significant topic to put on this page. I know it has more-so to do with the actual band rather than album, but I feel as though including the process the members went through to obtain a new drummer is notable to the album since it is more-or-less the origin/history of the album.———I took out the information on the alias and made certain things more concise.

• Okay! Thanks! --Seabuckthorn ♥ 01:40, 16 February 2014 (UTC)

• I think the statement "Even though the band had attempted to gain more mainstream acceptance with a change in musical style, it did not expand their audience as much as anticipated" can be more clear and easy to follow. (1a issue)

•  Fixed — I reworded and added quote by Tommy to assure it was not against WP:POV.

• "With the band's slight change in musical style, material included on the album was intended to gain a sense of mainstream acceptance, though the band members felt as though this was not achieved.[8][9] Tommy relates: "Road to Ruin was a flop Stateside, even though it had been a very deliberate attempt to secure American radioplay."[9]" That's perfect! Thanks a lot! --Seabuckthorn ♥ 01:40, 16 February 2014 (UTC)

Besides that, I think the article looks excellent. Please feel free to strike out any recommendation from this review which you think will not help in improving the article which is our main aim here. All the best, --Seabuckthorn ♥ 09:18, 15 February 2014 (UTC)

• Thanks for the quick review Seabuckthorn!!! CrowzRSA 19:19, 15 February 2014 (UTC)

• Thanks for your outstanding contributions! --Seabuckthorn ♥ 01:40, 16 February 2014 (UTC)

Promoting the article to GA status. --Seabuckthorn ♥ 01:40, 16 February 2014 (UTC)

Looking for some help on the lead section of this article, more balanced.

Hi, the second paragraph of the lead section of this article especially I feel could use work. It's uncited, and just focuses on asserting that fans and critics alike consider the album an attempt to get more airplay. And it wraps it up with "this attempt by the band failed". This doesn't come across as unbiased or fair to me. The opening paragraph was much more balanced, with positive as well. Pointing out that "I Wanna Be Sedated" became one of their most well known songs.

I also feel the article could mention more of the album's legacy. How it's a fan favorite, and the reception part of the article points out some people love it, so why doesn't the opening lead section do that too? Since it mentions aspects of the reception, but mainly the negative aspect for some reason. Plus, sales does not equal reception, why would music history on wikipedia be so focused on the money aspect? But I digress there.

Stuff like how "I wanna be sedated" went on to become a hit with a music video a decade later for Ramones Mania, is featured in movies like Spider-Man: Far From Home etc, lots of things could be in this article about it's positive legacy. The album is covered in it's entirely by The Mr. T Experience, that's also interesting and cool. The album contains fan favs like I Just Wanna Have Something To Do, and She's The One was selected by Rhino as a music video to promote their 40th Anniversary re-release. It's been pointed out that the album shows the band evolving with diverse styles and influences. My point, it's also a beloved album, seemingly unanimously in the top 4 of a beloved band by most people who talk about the band today. It's also one of their top albums on Spotify. Could just use a more balanced lead section. Hopefully others would also be happy to help this article.

Psychogoatee (talk) 18:07, 11 July 2021 (UTC)