Talk:Rinoa Heartilly/GA1

GA Review

Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch

Reviewer: Axem Titanium (talk · contribs) 02:08, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

• A bunch of WP:CURLY quotes in this article. I fixed a few but I don't think I got them all.
  • Yeah I looked through the article, I think you did, I don’t see any others.
• Lead
• "friends" appears twice in one sentence; reword to avoid this
  • Fixed.
• possession by Ultimecia isn't what causes her to become a sorceress and contradicts the explanation later in the article
  • I rewrote it to be clearer how she gets her powers.
    • This still contradicts "Through his time with Rinoa, he discovers that she now has Edea's magical powers, making her a Sorceress as well" from later in the article. Axem Titanium (talk) 21:19, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
      • But it doesn’t, as far as I can tell. If Ultimecia didn’t possess Rinoa, and hadn’t been possessing Edea previously, she would not have suddenly had magical powers. That’s how I understand the plot anyway. I tried to rewrite it though. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 00:02, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
• Who is "their enemy"?
  • Changed it to Ultimecia
• "make Rinoa contrast against" > "contrast Rinoa with"
  • Changed.
• "such characters as" > "characters like"
  • Changed.
• "more advanced graphics" - of the PS1, right? This sentence needs a bit more context in the lead
  • Rewritten
    • Now this sentence repeats "female characters" too many times. "and were overshadowing their personalities"? Axem Titanium (talk) 21:19, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
• Character design
• Caption for Kana should make clear that she was not voiced in the original game
  • Clarified
• Throw an extra ref name to [5] in there somewhere so it's clear that it's cited to that. You go 4 sentences without a ref in the beginning.
  • Fixed.
• Ref [6] fails verification/borders on OR to me. From the quote, it's not clear that it was based on feedback from FF7 or that the miniskirt refers to Tifa's miniskirt. Rinoa also wears a miniskirt with shorts so they could be referring to that.
  • Rewritten
    • This change now makes the reference to Tifa in the lead obsolete. Axem Titanium (talk) 21:19, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
• "A popular theory..." This transition is jarring. There's no reason why the Rinoa/Ultimecia theory should be in the same paragraph as the above stuff on visual design. If you can find any more info on Rinoa's story design, you might make a new paragraph on that and include this theory at the end. Otherwise, nix it in this section and move it to the Rinoa/Ultimecia paragraph in Reception
  • done
• Ref [8] is a self-published Medium post, does not qualify as RS
  • Cut
• "Critics have countered that the two characters have sharply contrasting designs" This one is a stretch. Ref [7] does make note of their contrasting designs but does not use it as evidence against the theory.
  • Fixed
• "The official names of Final Fantasy VIII's characters were released by Shonen Jump when the game released to the general public" - this doesn't make sense. Do you mean when the game was announced to the general public? Axem Titanium (talk) 21:19, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
• "Fans ... in France" - became is used twice in this sentence, reword to avoid this. Also it implies that the official French translation copied the fan translation, which 1) doesn't seem likely, 2) isn't quite supported by the ref.
  • Rewritten and clarified.
• "which showed a male and female character" - showed > shows
  • Fixed
• Kitase may have designed the logo (not clear from the ref), but Yoshitaka Amano is the one who draws it.
  • Fixed
• Ref [10] is a preview interview before the game was released. The only reason the female character is ambiguous at this point in time is because she hasn't been revealed yet. To a naive player, both characters are a mystery. I think the takeaway of this interview answer is the bit about how the embrace is supposed to evoke emotion. The mystery is why they are embracing, not who they are.
  • Tried a rewrite
    • I think you should drop the "unknown woman" angle. By the time the game came out, it was obvious who the woman is. Focus on the why, not the who. Axem Titanium (talk) 21:19, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
• "did not have clear understanding" > "did not have a clear understanding"
  • Fixed
• "with Kana Hanazawa voicing her in Japanese, and by Skyler Davenport in English" - the prepositions here are wrong. Use Parallelism (grammar).
  • Rewrote
    • "Rijos’s" > "her". Also you used a WP:CURLY quote mark here: ’. This is a straight quote mark: '. You should disable your keyboard's autocorrecting to curly quote marks when editing on Wikipedia. Axem Titanium (talk) 21:19, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
    • Ref [11] is not RS. Use this: https://square-enix-games.com/en_GB/news/dissidia-final-fantasy-nt-gives-rinoa-a-voice-and-introduces-a-new-level Axem Titanium (talk) 21:19, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
• Appearances
• Section links to General Caraway, Julia, Zell, Selphie, Edea are broken
• Ref [16] is broken
• "small resistance faction seeking to liberate the small nation" - small twice in one sentence
• "Forced to flee Timber, Rinoa decides to stay with the group and travel with them" - why are they forced to flee? Also ref [14] doesn't really verify this statement
• Fisherman's Horizon > Fishermans Horizon
• "Esthar fears her powers" - Esthar is not a person; try to reword to avoid naming Esthar at all?
• "Squall is convinced" - switch to active voice. I don't remember this scene specifically; do they convince him or does he convince himself?
• "Square Enix's and Sony's PlayStation 2" - should be Square at the time
• Ref [28] is broken
• Her appearance in Itadaki Street is unsourced
• Ref [30] is a fan site, not RS
• Her appearance in Dissidia NT is unsourced
• Ref [32] Twinfinite is not RS for news. Axem Titanium (talk) 21:19, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
• Speaking of which, Angelo is only mentioned here. Is there no design info on Angelo? Seems appropriate to include in Design, if only briefly.
• Reception
• Explain who Chiba is (he's credited as Event Director in FF8).
  • clarified
• "Fans voted for Rinoa to be the tenth" - clarify that this is Japanese fans. Also change to "voted Rinoa as"
• "IGN regards her" - who at IGN?
• "many times and made the scenes action line up precisely" > "many times to make the scene's action"
• Ref [40] is broken
• Ref [41] doesn't really mention her beauty
• Ref [43] is broken
• More broadly, Refs 38-43 all seem to fall into the category of "Top 10" listicles that are generally discouraged these days as RS, even within otherwise reliable publications, especially for the near-ubiquitous "Hottest babes in games" articles of the mid-2000s

Ok I cut two of them, should I cut all of them? Should her beauty or “hotness” not be mentioned? Just want to be clear what I should do. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 00:30, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

• Ref [44] is broken > https://archive.rpgamer.com/features/2012/dogs/dogs-5.html
• Refs [44] and [45] do not verify the claim that "Rinoa's weaponry is interesting though atypical"
• Ref [49] and [50] are not RS and I think this so-called "censorship" isn't noteworthy to mention
• "Critics have countered that the two characters have contrasting designs" - again, the ref doesn't really say this 'in counter to' the theory. They just make the observation that their designs contrast, but not in reference to the theory. Also I just saw that GameRant (Ref [7]) is unreliable per WP:VG/S.
• "A fan theory was" > "One fan theory about the game is"
• Ref [51] is about an entirely different lingering plot line; it's not about Rinoa = Ultimecia
• Ref [52] can be used to replace Ref [7] to verify the existence of the Rinoa Ultimecia theory
• Ref [53] is broken > https://archive.rpgamer.com/editor/2005/q2/041805gm.html
• "couples first meeting" > "couple's first meeting"
• "for the characters loving interactions" - this is an awkward construction, not sure what the intended meaning is here, especially at the end of this sentence.
• Ref [55] doesn't really praise anything. It just says it's cute/awkward, and it's part of preview coverage of an entirely different game.
• Ref [56] is broken
• Ref [57] is a duplicate of Ref [7], which is not RS
• Ref [58] does not verify "the couple was developed correctly in the narrative"
• "ranked the couple as the top Square Enix couple" - couple appears twice, try to avoid this
• "Glasser called Rinoa "Square's valentine to every gamer with a crush"" - actually, he calls FFVIII this, not Rinoa specifically
• Ref [60] is broken > https://archive.rpgamer.com/editor/1999/q4/112499as.html
• Ref [61] is archived but not marked as such in the cite template
• "They also ranked the couple" - specify who "they" is
• Ref [63] is broken
• Combine the remainder of the paragraph "On the other hand, Charlie Barratt ... her character was too stereotypical" with the last paragraph of criticism in this section.
• Legacy
• The Scott Pilgrim ref only appears in an older version of that article https://web.archive.org/web/20140718215117/http://www.gamesradar.com/every-scott-pilgrim-vs-the-world-videogame-reference/?page=2
  • Archived

Review in progress. Axem Titanium (talk) 07:25, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

• • Ok! I think I got everything! @Axem Titanium: Judgesurreal777 (talk) 13:45, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
    • Anything else? @Axem Titanium:? Judgesurreal777 (talk) 20:22, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
      • @Judgesurreal777: Sorry I wasn't done earlier. I responded to some of your changes above as well. See messages marked with the timestamp 21:19, 18 June 2020 (UTC). Axem Titanium (talk) 21:21, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

@Axem Titanium: Ok I did all the corrections, sourced what I could, rewrote, cut stuff. One thing I can say is that Angelo might have been been based on a dog at Nomura’s office, but its in the Ultimania and I don’t have access to it. But otherwise I think it’s done! Judgesurreal777 (talk) 01:41, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

I made a few final changes and I think it's good to go. Passed. Axem Titanium (talk) 05:32, 19 June 2020 (UTC)