Talk:Rick Dantzler/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Eddie891 (talk · contribs) 23:01, 26 April 2020 (UTC)

I'll take this on soon Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 23:01, 26 April 2020 (UTC)

comments

• Referencing is well done, spot check revealed no errors
• "Running mate to Buddy MacKay in the 1998 Florida gubernatorial election, both men lost to Jeb Bush and Frank Brogan" Try "He was the running mate of Buddy MacKay..."
• "both men lost to Jeb Bush and Frank Brogan" Try "the ticket lost

  For both of the above, I reworked this entire bit from the lead.

• you should mention his party somewhere in the first lede paragraph

  Yeah? I wouldn't think that's warranted in the lead, but sure.

• "From 2014–2017, Dantzler was President Obama's appointed Florida State Executive Director of the Farm Service Agency" Try "In 2014, President Barack Obama appointed Dantzler the..."

  His other political terms are spelled out in the lead ("1982–1990" and "1990–1998"); why shouldn't this one be?

• ", and has considered re-entering politics if crowdfunding to do so was viable" you never mention him leaving politics

  Aye, I've reworked that sentence for greater specificity.

• You don't cite explicitly that he's a "sports enthusiast" in the article. What does that even mean in an encyclopedic context?

  That's a lift from one of the sources, but I don't remember which now, and doesn't have lead-worth bearing on the article as a whole.

• "was serving as a Polk County, Florida commissioner" what about now?

  Apparently term limits forced him from that position in 2018. As this isn't his article though, I don't think keeping a running tab on his is warranted. I've removed the time-specific language.

• "Dantzler enjoys writing, having written articles for newspapers and magazines" try "Dantzler has written articles that were published in [Newspaper name] [magazine name], as well as...." the reader can assume for themselves whether he enjoys it

  His enjoyment is borne out by the following citation, though.

• "Standing at 6 feet 4 inches (1.93 m), in a June 1998 public disclosure of his health records" what's the relation between his height and disclosure of health records

  I was trying desperately to turn a quality phrase there, but it never really landed. I've worked it out.

• "scuttlebutt was that the local state representative" please choose a different word, more encyclopedic phrasing.

  You mean "scuttlebutt"? I wouldn't have taken it for being "unencyclopedic", but sure.

• "in 1981" when exactly?

  The source doesn't say.

• "said plainly "I was ready to run for the House and wanted to know what he was going to do" that's a little bit misleading because that isn't what he said in the office, is it? It's what he said in the news article. Try "asked what Crawford was going to do and said he would run for the House seat." or something along those lines

  I can totally see that. I've tried to remove that ambiguity.

• "finally admitted his senatorial plans" when? you can also drop the finally

  The source is not specific enough about when this interaction took place.

• "Dantzler ran for his" his could be read to imply Dantlzer's

  I've simply changed it to "for the"; that's clear enough what with the rest of the paragraph.

• Do we have any details about what he did in the house?

  Not that I came across in reliable secondary sources.

• Why show only the 1982 election? I'd say show all in an 'electoral history section' or none

  Are you referring to the election box template? I could only find and access the Florida state records of the 1982 election. I only included the template because they're prevalent elsewhere; I'll instead incorporate what's there into the prose.

• "Dantzler served in the House until 1990, being reelected to that post thrice" try "Dantzler served in the house for four (?) terms, leaving in 1990. " or "Dantzler was reelected three times before leaving the house in 1990" or something along those lines

  I'm not sure why, but as you prefer.

• "For his 1984 run to retain his seat from the 43rd District" what about his other runs?

  I didn't find any reliable secondary sources that discussed them.

• clarify what senate he was elected to

  Easily done

• ""landmark laws"" I'd expect to see more laws than just one if they really are landmark

  As would I, but the Sun-Sentinel was non-specific.

• "would describe Dantzler as" when"?

  I'm not entirely sure why that's written as it is, actually. I've elaborated.

  • What value does this quote add?

    In the absence of much specificity to be found regarding his time in the Florida Senate, this gives some inkling of what he was actually doing.

• ""voted with the conservative Christian Coalition on the issues that were important to it 89 percent of the time."" surely you could rephrase that into your own words? I don't think it needs to be in quotes

  Do you prefer "Eighty-nine percent of Dantzler's senate votes were found to have aligned with the interests of the conservative Christian Coalition of America."? I'm not keen on leaving out the quotations because I want it clear to readers that the judgment of "conservatism" with regards to the Christian Coalition of America is explicitly from the source, not the Wikipedia contributor.

• When did he switch to district 17?

  I couldn't even find whether (a) he switched constituencies, or (b) the numbers and/or borders of those districts moved around him.

• "He resigned from office on January 6, 1998." surely this would be better placed at the end of his 'senate' section?

  I swapped the specificity of dates.

• Is there a stat about Dantzler's fundraising ability

  Unlikely beyond what I included, but I'll double-check sources.

• "insiders," can you be any more specific?

  I can't, but I'll email Ms. Kleindienst.

• "Governor Lawton Chiles finagled the deal" I'm not sure finagle is what you want here

  Indeed.

• "in a downtown Tallahassee park" does the park have a name?

  I couldn't find that when I wrote it, but I'll ask Ms. Kleindienst if she has that detail.

• I had no idea that Arnold was in the race until you said "Meanwhile, Arnold said he would stay in the primary race, c"

  Ah, that should be a adjectival note in the previous paragraph.

• "asked for Dantzler's service in the executive-appointed position of Florida State Executive Director of the Farm Service Agency" I think you could condense this along the lines of "asked Dantzler to serve as Florida..." or "asked Dantzler whether he would be willing to serve as..." or something else?

  Wow, yeah, that was wordy.

• "the new appointee became one of the estimated 456 residents of" try "Dantzler moved to"

  You want to excise the population-size of McIntosh? I'd prefer to leave it and let readers draw any potential conclusion from Dantzler preferring to live 20 miles from work, rather than move to Gainesville itself.

• "looked forward to working" I'd suggest removing or changing to "worked with"

  "In his new position, Dantzler looked forward to worked with the Florida Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services…" I'm not sure this is what you meant?

• "soften or delay the effects the Agricultural Act of 2014" Do we know which one happened?

  Not that I found. From my searching, I felt lucky to have found that Gainesville Sun source at all.

• "Dantzler made an aborted run for Florida Commissioner of Agriculture" year?

  The source only says that it was after his campaign for governor. I didn't find anything further (I personally assume it was a pittance of an attempt), but I'll email Mr. Rufty.

• "Dissatisfied with the products of Tallahassee, Florida and Washington, D.C. politics," what does this mean? I think it assumes that the reader somehow has knowledge of said products.

  "'I think about it every day. I miss it a lot. I don’t have immediate plans, but I am really stressed by the policies that have come out of the governor’s office,' he said. 'My frequent trips to D.C. (on behalf of environmental projects) have made me aware how broken it is at the federal level, too,' he said."

• As of January 2017, Dantzler had applied with President of the Florida Senate Joe Negron" any update?

  No, except that he wasn't on the ultimate list of those contributing, and that list came from an non-reliable source at the time, so I didn't include it. In April 2020, though, I think we can remove that template.

• "to the FSA position" mention abbreviation the first time you spell the word out (i.e. earlier you should say "Farm Service Agency (FSA)"

  Did I not? Good catch, thanks.

• ". In this role, Dantzler will administer the" surely by now he did?

  Possibly, but no further CRDF publications have connected Dantzler with budget management. I will change it to "Dantzler was to administer", though.

• I'd say overall, you could largely reduce the amount of quotes in the article. For each quote ask yourself

1. What does this quote add to the article?
2. What would the article lose from the quote being removed?
3. Could I paraphrase this without the quote?

That's enough for a first pass, most of my comments probably. Overall, nice article, very well referenced, but some prose work. You should be able to address these in about a week. If you need more time, just let me know. I'm always happy to clarify/discuss any/all of my comments. Happy editing! Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 23:31, 30 April 2020 (UTC)

Hello! I hadn't watched the GA subpage, and didn't realize that the review has commenced! My apologies for returning late. Take a look at this version and my replies above. Thanks! — Fourthords | =Λ= | 01:07, 4 May 2020 (UTC)

Fourthords, Just a note that I haven't forgotten about this review-- I'll try and comment more later today. Sorry I didn't come here sooner Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 12:26, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

No worries! — Fourthords | =Λ= | 19:05, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

Continued

• per MOS:CONTEXTBIO, "Ethnicity, religion, or sexuality should generally not be in the lead unless it is relevant to the subject's notability." Therefore, I don't think his religion should be in the lede

  10-4

• "specialized in medicine and primary education." Similarly, why do his daughter's professions need to be in the lede

  10-4

• ""the leading agency overseeing scientific research against [citrus] greening"" I think you could just express this as "an agency overseeing research against citrus greening" because I'm not sure of the relevance that it's a leading agency, as well as a GSearch reveals little supporting it as 'the leading agency'

  Sounds fair

• "Dantzler stood at 6 feet 4 inches (1.93 m) in 1998, and in a June 1998 public disclosure of his health records, he revealed his diagnoses of Gilbert's syndrome and post-nasal drip, and that he was otherwise in good health" I'm a little concerned this may fall under WP:TMI, particularly the diseases. See also Template:Infobox person, which says to only list height "If person was notable for their height, or if height is relevant."

  I can see removing it from the infobox, but I feel that if the info was reported upon—as opposed to being rote, databased info—it meets sufficient muster.

Probably some more comments tomorrow. I want to stress the article is in good shape, the main thing is just there's a bit too much detail that is seemingly trivial. This is a good problem to have because it's much easier to trim than to expand. I'll revisit as I get the chance. Best wishes, Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 00:20, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for your assistance! — Fourthords | =Λ= | 22:19, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

Comments from Hog Farm

Hey, I've got a few comments on the article that I think have some bearing to this review. @Eddie891 and Fourthords: - Feel free to object to these, since I'm just kinda butting in.

"Dantzler enjoys writing, having written articles for newspapers and magazines, as well as three historical fiction novels.[3]" is what the article states, "He also enjoys writing, having written three books, including the highly acclaimed Under the Panther Moon, and numerous newspaper columns and magazine articles." is what the source says. I'm not seeing an indication these are historical novels, or even novels themselves.

"former Florida politician allied with the Democratic Party." - Use of the word allied is a little odd here - it suggests that he's not part of the party, but works alongside it, while he seems to be a member of the Democratic Party.

Some of the stuff in here needs updating. For instance "By January 2017, Dantzler had applied with President of the Florida Senate Joe Negron to become one of his nine appointees to the 37-person 2018 Florida Constitutional Revision Commission.[19]" - Did he become one of the nine appointees? Given that this is three years ago, the outcome ought to be in the article. "He joined the board of the Florida Sports Hall of Fame in 2006, and was the body's president as of September 2014.[7]" is from almost 6 years ago, an update on whether he is the president or not should occur. If he's out of office, having the dates of his tenure would be nice.

See WP:CONTRACTION, which bluntly states "Avoid contractions, which have little place in formal writing. For example, write cannot instead of can't." There are several contractions in here.

I agree with Eddie891 that some of this detail doesn't really belong in here. Specific examples:

• "as of February 2013, older daughter Elizabeth (born 1985 or 1986)[1] was a medical school student,[5] and the younger Margaret (born 1989 or 1990)[1] was a primary school teacher in Atlanta.[5]" - While the fact that he had two children is worth mentioning, and it's okay to have the names since they're published in outside reliable sources. However, the fact that his children were a student and a teacher 7 years ago is not relevant to the topic.

• "Dantzler stood at 6 feet 4 inches (1.93 m) in 1998,[1] and in a June 1998 public disclosure of his health records, he revealed his diagnoses of Gilbert's syndrome and post-nasal drip, and that he was otherwise in good health.[8]" - See WP:TMI. Post-nasal drip is incredibly common, I see no relevance in stating that Danztler has it. In response to your reply about height earlier, Wikipedia runs in summary style - not every detail of information available needs to be replicated, only what brings complete understanding of the subject or is noteworthy.

• "As the executive director's office was located in Gainesville, Florida, Dantzler's family stayed in Polk County, Florida while the new appointee became one of the estimated 456 residents of McIntosh, Florida:[6][17] a town approximately 20 miles (32 km) from Gainesville." - Personally, I would probably leave this out entirely. However, I can see a case to be made for including that he had to move away from his family. However, the town's population is not relevant at all, and the distance of 20 miles from his new residence to his place of work probably isn't.

Alt text in the infobox of "A portrait photograph featuring the suited bust of a caucasoid man, facing and smiling at the camera." strikes me as a little odd, but is probably acceptable.

That's my piece. Hog Farm (talk) 03:46, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

Fourthords: I'll place this on hold pending response to Hog Farm's comments. No rush here Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 13:23, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

Hog Farm just a courtesy ping that Fourthords has responded here Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 00:06, 29 May 2020 (UTC)

In reply to Hog Farm:

• Mr. Dantzler's historical fiction writing is accurate, but sources didn't get copied duly when that aspect was included.
• WRT "allied with the Democratic Party", I'm largely unfamiliar with the intricacies of politics; do you recommend a better phrasing?

• My recommendation would be "is a member of the Democratic Party", it's a pretty standard phrasing for politics articles

• Changed duly

• As for the Joe Negron and Florida Sports Hall of Fame data, I've only found what's there. The former might be better rephrased, but I think they both still warrant inclusion.

• Here's a source listing the 9 appointees of Negron [1], Dantzler isn't one of them.

• Excellent, I've added that he's not listed there.

• I try to write w/o contractions, but they may slip in. That being said, I only found two in an audit of the current text.
• I'll excise the data about the daughters.
• For the diagnoses and height, I figured that if they warranted explicit note by the Sun-Sentinel, then they were worth noting.

• Not a violation of the BLP policy, so it's okay I guess. A FAC run would probably question the inclusion

• I felt that the source for the McIntosh information was implying something by noting it, but I didn't pick up on it explicitly, so I wanted to allow our readers the same opportunity to decide. He moved away from his family, but not to his new job, instead 20 miles from his new job. That being said, I can see an argument for removing the town's population.
• Alt text is supposed to describe to visually-impaired readers what's being illustrated in the image, right? I'm unsure how else to describe it.

• Yeah, odd but probably the best

Here are my edits; what say you, good farmer? — Fourthords | =Λ= | 19:55, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

Fourthords, just two things to fix up Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 22:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

D-U-N, done. — Fourthords | =Λ= | 23:18, 9 June 2020 (UTC)

I am now satisfied that this article meets the GA criteria and am happy to pass. Nice work! Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 12:57, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

Hey, thanks! — Fourthords | =Λ= | 22:51, 13 June 2020 (UTC)