Talk:Renaissance (French political party)
Latest comment: 7 days ago by Scia Della Cometa in topic Centrism, right-wing, big-tent
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Colour of the party
editI know that yellow is common associated with liberalism, but is Yellow really the colour of the party? The logo in the page is in black and white, their homepage is all cyan and pink, the logo of the group in Wikipedia is in sky blue, when you search for the party in google you most find blue, cyan or French tricolor-coloured images... I think that yellow is not the most adequated color to represent the party
Liberalism / social-liberalism
editHi @Checco: did you read fr:Discussion:Renaissance (parti) ?
TLDR: in the French sources, there is no consensus for "libéralisme" after 2017, but "social-libéralisme" occurs very often and in varied sources.
Fourmidable (talk) 15:52, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
- I have not read that talk and, as you know, consensus in fr.Wikipedia is not automatically consensus in en.Wikipedia. Also, it seems to me that "social liberalism" might have a slightly different meaning in France than elsewhere. By the way, did you read Talk:Renaissance (French political party)/Archive 2? After a long discussion, it was decided that only "liberalism" was to be kept in the article's infobox. That is what I am going to do. --Checco (talk) 18:40, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
- @Checco: Indeed, liberal does not mean liberalism in English (rather social-liberal). But thus, the correct ideology is social-liberalism, not liberalism. Fourmidable (talk) 19:59, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
Centrism, right-wing, big-tent
editRenaissances brands itself as centrist and was actually centrist during the 2017 campaign. Its political position since evolved a lot, leaning to the right. It even occasionally embraced far-right themes, and is regularly pointing the main left-wing parties as "Enemy of the Republic" (aka State). Some also have called it Big Tent.
Labeling Renaissance "centrist" on Wikipedia is now deceptive. The French Wikipedia has stopped using a particular label in the intro. They only specify the political position in the infobox, where it says : centrism, right-wing and big tent.
I suggest we align on this and stop labeling Renaissance outside of the infobox, where we should at least add "Right wing".
talking Cherry 08:20, 29 October 2023 (UTC)
- The party is almost unanimously described by sources as centrist. It may be centre-right for French standards, but it is definitely centrist by European standards, which matter more as this is an international encyclopedia. I am going to rollback recent edits to the intro and the infobox. --Checco (talk) 17:32, 29 October 2023 (UTC)
- It may be described as a centrist party, but it's centre-right in economic ideology according to an independent research University in North Carolina (USA): https://chesdata.shinyapps.io/Shiny-CHES/ .
- In 2019 it was classified as 6.3333 (1 being extreme left, 10 extreme right) 2A02:A447:6A8F:1:2007:D155:86A:73E9 (talk) 14:24, 5 February 2024 (UTC)
- One specific research should not change our consensus, but 6.3333 out of 10 looks quite centrist to me! --Checco (talk) 07:25, 6 February 2024 (UTC)
- Since the nomination of Gabriel Attal, it is described as right-wing (not center-right) by almost all Journals in France. The party's self-description isn't important for this article, otherwise we would put left-conservatism in the infobox of BSW. 'European standards', or 'french standards' aren't clearly and officially defined. There are enough sources to change the infobox to center-right. The party also brands itself as progressive, although most english sources probably don't describe it that way at least since Macron defended Gérard Depardieu. There are reliable sources describing it as center-right. Encyclopédisme (talk) 10:54, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
- In addition, other parties, with similar positions, are also described as center-right (The FDP for exemple). Encyclopédisme (talk) 10:58, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
- @Checco:Sooo, can I go ahead and add the sourced content we’re talking about? Encyclopédisme (talk) 23:43, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
- Why not? There an "ideology" section for that. --Checco (talk) 12:45, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
- Great. Encyclopédisme (talk) 13:05, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
- Why not? There an "ideology" section for that. --Checco (talk) 12:45, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
- @Checco:Sooo, can I go ahead and add the sourced content we’re talking about? Encyclopédisme (talk) 23:43, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
- In addition, other parties, with similar positions, are also described as center-right (The FDP for exemple). Encyclopédisme (talk) 10:58, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
- Since the nomination of Gabriel Attal, it is described as right-wing (not center-right) by almost all Journals in France. The party's self-description isn't important for this article, otherwise we would put left-conservatism in the infobox of BSW. 'European standards', or 'french standards' aren't clearly and officially defined. There are enough sources to change the infobox to center-right. The party also brands itself as progressive, although most english sources probably don't describe it that way at least since Macron defended Gérard Depardieu. There are reliable sources describing it as center-right. Encyclopédisme (talk) 10:54, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
- One specific research should not change our consensus, but 6.3333 out of 10 looks quite centrist to me! --Checco (talk) 07:25, 6 February 2024 (UTC)
- I propose the compromise of "Centre to centre-right", as is the case with Ensemble !. Economically, the party is very right-wing. GlowstoneUnknown (talk) 12:50, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
- I oppose that, while I would accept "centre-right". However, my favourite option is "centre". --Checco (talk) 18:12, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
- Your 'favorite option'? Really? Plus one for 'centre to centre-right'. And may I propose 'center-left to right-wing' which largely describes all courants of the party (this is waht's on fr.wiki). Encyclopédisme (talk) 16:07, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
- I surely oppose "centre to centre-right" as I oppose the "xxxxx to xxxxx" format. --Checco (talk) 16:31, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
- Your 'favorite option'? Really? Plus one for 'centre to centre-right'. And may I propose 'center-left to right-wing' which largely describes all courants of the party (this is waht's on fr.wiki). Encyclopédisme (talk) 16:07, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
- I oppose that, while I would accept "centre-right". However, my favourite option is "centre". --Checco (talk) 18:12, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
Centre to centre-right. We have multiple sources for centre-right: [1], [2], [3]. Helper201 (talk) 15:39, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
- Then, let's have "centre-right". I am for "centre" and nothing else, but I can accept that. The only option I oppose is "centre to centre-right". --Checco (talk) 05:21, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
- What's your aversion to describing the position of a party as a spectrum? GlowstoneUnknown (talk) 10:11, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
- This party is purely centrist, which is also described as a centre-left and centre-right party, exactly like the German FDP. The fact that the latter is currently described as a centre-right party on its Wikipedia page is what I consider to be a gross error, which does not take into account most sources. Let's not repeat the same mistake here too.--Scia Della Cometa (talk) 13:31, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
- I agree that Renaissance is a purely centrist party, with centre-right and centre-left tendencies. That is quite different anyway from Germanys' FDP, which is and has always and structurally been a centre-right party, on several issues to the right of the CDU. --Checco (talk) 05:53, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
- I know this is off topic, but also the FDP, just like Renaissance, is a centrist party with both centre-right and centre-left tendencies (there are sources that explain this well)... I think both parties should be considered in the same way. Scia Della Cometa (talk) 07:51, 22 June 2024 (UTC)
- I agree that Renaissance is a purely centrist party, with centre-right and centre-left tendencies. That is quite different anyway from Germanys' FDP, which is and has always and structurally been a centre-right party, on several issues to the right of the CDU. --Checco (talk) 05:53, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
- This party is purely centrist, which is also described as a centre-left and centre-right party, exactly like the German FDP. The fact that the latter is currently described as a centre-right party on its Wikipedia page is what I consider to be a gross error, which does not take into account most sources. Let's not repeat the same mistake here too.--Scia Della Cometa (talk) 13:31, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
- What's your aversion to describing the position of a party as a spectrum? GlowstoneUnknown (talk) 10:11, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
- Then, let's have "centre-right". I am for "centre" and nothing else, but I can accept that. The only option I oppose is "centre to centre-right". --Checco (talk) 05:21, 20 June 2024 (UTC)