Talk:Religion in Bulgaria

Issues with Pensionero's edits

Here I'm listing why I'm going to revert most of Pensionero's recent unmarked edits to the article on the ground of them not being an improvement.

• "With regard to minority religions" is somewhat redundant because the prior sentence already states that "the dominant confession is Orthodoxy..."
• "However the synagogue and the mosque reamin [sic] the sole [sic] in the city compared to dozens of Orthodox Churches and as of last [sic] 2001 census the population of Sofia is 96% Orthodox". This is a somewhat distasteful way to counter the religious tolerance bit in the intro. "the dominant confession is Orthodoxy..." is already in the article, we don't have to have that in every paragraph and for every city.
• "Orthodox Christianity ... has had its roots in the Balkans since the 1st century and the mission of Apostle Paul". Erroneous. At the time of Paul, there was no schism between Eastern and Western Christianity, what's left for Orthodoxy and Catholicism...
• "Today, the Muslims form the majority in Kardzhali Province (70% compared to 22% Orthodox) and Razgrad Province (54% compared to 43% Orthodox), in which provinces they are mosty Turks, they also form the majority in Smolyan Province (42% compared to 30% Orthodox), in which province they are mainly Bulgarians." This is the section about Islam in Bulgaria, I don't think statistics about Orthodoxy have anything to do here. Also, not all Pomaks in Smolyan Province identify as Bulgarians.
• New mosque image: the Banya Bashi Mosque is much more famous and artistically attractive than a village mosque in Tuhovishta. It would be like replacing the image of Alexander Nevsky with some village church.
• Additional image of Varna Cathedral: we already have two photos of Orthodox structures, the last thing we need is another one.
• The images of non-Orthodox buildings have been made smaller for some twisted reason I don't understand. It doesn't look good.

I don't want to be explaining any of this any further. It's taking too much of my time which I'd rather be devoting to more productive activities. So no more tendentious editing of this kind, Pensionero, please. If this continues, I'll be resorting to admin assistance as soon as you revert back to your version. — Toдor Boжinov — 12:13, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

Here I am explaining what I did:

• "With regard to minority religions" I am not advocating that it could be with it and could be without it, but it is not an obstacle

• "However the synagogue and the mosque reamin [sic] the sole [sic] in the city compared to dozens of Orthodox Churches and as of last [sic] 2001 census the population of Sofia is 96% Orthodox". I add this to prevent confusing sense that Sofia is a mixed city with Muslims, Jews and Orthodox with a sourced information 96% of the city have Orthodox selfidentification. This is not related with the dominant religion of the whole country as there are different region of the country where the dominant religion is different e.g. Razgrad, Kardzhali province, as of the triangle shows it may confuse that Sofia is mixed region, and is better to deny this possible confussion.

• "Orthodox Christianity ... has had its roots in the Balkans since the 1st century and the mission of Apostle Paul" You are absolutely right, the schism have not been a fact yet, I made this mistake in the speed

• "Today, the Muslims form the majority in Kardzhali Province (70% compared to 22% Orthodox) and Razgrad Province (54% compared to 43% Orthodox), in which provinces they are mosty Turks, they also form the majority in Smolyan Province (42% compared to 30% Orthodox), in which province they are mainly Bulgarians." Simple statistics of the mixed areas of Islam and Orthodoxy, where Islam has the majority. In all the povinces with Islam the areas are mixed is more accurate to show the percentage. Still why this should be removed?

• "New mosque image" I don't know whether is choosig on popularity, but in some towns in the Rhodopes and Ludogorie there are more Muslims than in Sofia, therefore I set map from the traditional Muslim region in the villlage Tuhovishta.

• "Additional image of Varna Cathedral" Something important, infront of paragraph Orthodox Christianity is the mosque, infront of Islam the Roman Catholic Church and infront of Roman Catholicism the Protestant church and etc. I take the order how it has to be infornt of Orthodoxy- Orthodox Church... If you think there is one unless Orthodox church image, we could move Rila monastery in paragraph Orthodoxy, or take the Varna Cathedral and delete the Rila monastery or something like that, but is not correct the mosque in this paragraph. And for making smaller some pics I make the mosque, the Roman cathedral and the synagogue as big as their paragraph is big to not enter in the neighbouring religous paragraphs..

I had to explain you that first, but I don't see these edits as so tendensous except the adding "Orthodox" in "Christianity came by apostole Paul", most of the add text, i.e. percentages is sourced. Pensionero (talk) 14:29, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

May 2018

This edit's summary by FrankCesco26: "the "sharp decline" as you are trying to point out is mainly due in the latest figure to the fact that the religion questions was made optional, and it wasn't specified. The lede must explain it in the most clear way. You must accept other people's contributions, or make your own Wikipedia in which you can remove the edits you don't like".

That is precisely what the source says. Can you please stop expressing your personal opinions in edit summaries and stick to what sources say?--Wddan (talk) 09:40, 11 May 2018 (UTC)

There has been a decline, but the numbers mostly lowered by the introduction of the possibility to opt out to answer the census question. FrankCesco26 (talk) 12:49, 11 May 2018 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Catholic cathedral Sofia.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 11:53, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

2021 census

Why are the figures of the religious groups conclusive? According to the [1], Sofia Globe:

A total of 71.5 per cent of Bulgarians who answered an optional question in the 2021 Census about their religion said that they were Christians, the National Statistical Institute (NSI) said on November 24. A total of 638 708 (10.8 per cent) of those who answered the question in Census 2021 about religion said that they were Muslims. Of those who said that they were Jews, 38.9 per cent described themselves as religious while 41.3 per cent said that they were not. The NSI said that 6451 people (0.1 per cent) said that they adhered to another religion, 305 102 (5.2 per cent) said that they had none, 259 235 (4.4 per cent) could not say and 472 606 (eight per cent) would not say. Also pages 8-9 support these figures above; maybe I'm missing something, but I can't find the figures in the Pie chart or the table in the 2021 Census report. User:Æo, could you please explain where these percentages come from?.--عبد المسيح (talk) 08:16, 30 November 2022 (UTC)

Those reported hereabove are the numbers calculated without considering the non-responding population, which was 616,681. On p. 15 of the census report you can find the complete data: tot. pop. 6,519,789, Christians 4,219,270, Muslims 638,708, Jews 1,736, others 6,451, none 305,102, could not/would not define 259,235+472,606, unanswered 616,681. If we don't consider the 21.8% who did not respond in 2011 and the 9.5% who did the same in 2021, the percentages of all religions in the two censuses are different (e.g. Christians are ≈78% in 2011 and ≈72% in 2021), but it is common practice also for censuses in other countries to always consider the non-respondents, since we cannot assume that they have the same affiliations/unaffiliations as the respondents. Æo (talk) 17:19, 30 November 2022 (UTC)

Sorry I am confused by this 12% refused to answer while 71% identified as christian and 10% as muslim and 5% as with no religion shouldn't these numbers be reported instead? Barbardo (talk) 16:04, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

The datum of those who did not answer is 616,681 or 9.5%, not 12%. Then there were three options for types of unaffiliation (n.b. which does not mean atheism). The data presented in those press articles are not complete or are messed up (be it deliberate or not). Æo (talk) 16:13, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

Sorry but the reference by sofia says:

305 102 (5.2 per cent) said that they had none, 259 235 (4.4 per cent) could not say and 472 606 (eight per cent) would not say. Barbardo (talk) 16:20, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

Yes, those are the unaffiliated — they are the three options for unaffiliation, still part of the population who answered to the census question. Then there was an additional group of 616,681 people, or 9.5% of the total, who did not answer at all. Æo (talk) 16:23, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

But the 12% is from 8 and 4%? As it says 4% couldnt say what they followed and 8% refused to answer but the additional group wasnt mentioned at all? Barbardo (talk) 16:44, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

That 12% is likely 8 + 4%, but they are not those who did not answer at all. Those 12% still responded to the question but did not declare any affiliation (could not define + would not define), and an additional 5.2% answered "none (of the listed religions)". Then, another 9.5% of the population did not respond to the question at all, i.e. they left the form blank. This 9.5% has not been calculated in the percentages as presented by those press articles.

Let me explain more clearly; these are the official data from p. 15 of the report compiled by the National Statistical Institute of Bulgaria:

• Total population: 6,519,789
  • Those who answered to the census question:
    • Affiliated:
      • Christian: 4,219,270
      • Muslim: 638,708
      • Jewish: 1,736
      • Other: 6,451
    • Unaffiliated (but they still answered to the census question):
      • None of these religions: 305,102
      • Can not define: 259,235
      • Would not define: 472,606
  • Those who did not answer to the census question: 616,681

Æo (talk) 16:55, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

Okay I get it now. Barbardo (talk) 20:23, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

Atheism is a negation (we don't even have that percentage)

The affirmative term is physicalism, and more specifically metaphysical logicism, metaphysics means fundamental principles. Metaphysical logicism = the foundations of substantiality = what exists, is logical = logical relations and procedures.

Typical agnostics are open to the supernatural = personhood-biased/anthropic (within the gradience of anthropocenteredness/anthropicity: even the impersonal Tao is full of human biases not proven observationally or mathematically by science) teleological causality violations.