Talk:Rejoice in the Lamb

Latest comment: 1 year ago by 86.11.96.95 in topic For H is a Spirit
Good articleRejoice in the Lamb has been listed as one of the Music good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
July 8, 2022Good article nomineeListed

NPOV

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This article contains several POV adjectives, including "poignant", "clever", and "deeply moving." Phrases like "very popular with cat lovers" seem a bit unverifiable. --MarkBuckles 12:58, 30 May 2006 (UTC)Reply

It can be verified by asking a few cat lovers. -- Ranthlee 17:15, 13 July 2006 (UTC)Reply

Please see Wikipedia:Verifiability

That said, I have deleted "poignant" and attributed the feeling "deeply moving" to "many listeners". Is that sufficiently NPOV?

I've also posted a long message to User talk:Hyacinth about questions regarding what POV is. -- Ranthlee 02:27, 14 July 2006 (UTC)Reply

For any interested parties, a copious reponse to this has been posted at User talk:Ranthlee. The article and the opinions therein are not sufficiently neutral. See WP:NPOV for details on Wikipedia's policy regarding this. -- MarkBuckles 02:34, 15 July 2006 (UTC)Reply

Translation

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I can't think why anyone would want to sing this in a different language but just to put it out there as a question, if anyone knows if it's been done another language that would be interesting Lawrence18uk (talk) 18:24, 31 March 2022 (UTC)Reply

GA Review

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This review is transcluded from Talk:Rejoice in the Lamb/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: K. Peake (talk · contribs) 09:06, 5 July 2022 (UTC)Reply


Good Article review progress box
Criteria: 1a. prose ( ) 1b. MoS ( ) 2a. ref layout ( ) 2b. cites WP:RS ( ) 2c. no WP:OR ( ) 2d. no WP:CV ( )
3a. broadness ( ) 3b. focus ( ) 4. neutral ( ) 5. stable ( ) 6a. free or tagged images ( ) 6b. pics relevant ( )
Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked   are unassessed

I am going to start reviewing this today, though it may take another day to complete. --K. Peake 09:06, 5 July 2022 (UTC)Reply

Infobox and lead

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  • Infobox looks good!
  • The choir is not sourced as being SATB anywhere in the body
    • I have added information about the choir into the "Composition" section. I think as per Wikipedia:WikiProject Classical music/Guidelines, this doesn't need a citation: "In general, it is permitted to make factual observations based on examination of the musical score of a work."
  • Where is the "all created beings and things" part sourced in the body?
    • Have changed to "The poem, written while Smart was in an asylum, depicts idiosyncratic praise and worship of God by different things including animals, letters of the alphabet, and musical instruments". This is supported by the body.
  • "of the fiftieth anniversary" → "of the 50th anniversary" per MOS:NUM
    •   Done
  • Remove [1] per this info already being sourced in the body
    •   Done
  • The lead is definitely lacking at this point; I would suggest adding info about the text/comp, what critics commented about the song and the different arrangements, in this order
    • I have expanded the lead as suggested, let me know what you think.

History

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  • "as demonstrated in" → "as demonstrated with" and add the years of these two works
    •   Done
  • "for the fiftieth anniversary" → "for the 50th anniversary" per MOS:NUM
    •   Done
  • Wikilink St Matthew's Church, Northampton
    •   Done
  • Should there be commas before and lists with more than two mentions or is this a different form of English than American?
    • Do you mean the Oxford comma? I would have thought tt doesn't matter as long as it's consistent throughout the article - which I can see it's not! Let me know which one you'd prefer and I'll change the article to everything is consistent.
  • I would say not, as this article is about a piece for a British church. In this case, you should change on every occasion unless it is a list preceded by a colon. --K. Peake 06:24, 7 July 2022 (UTC)Reply
Have removed instances of commas before "and"s. Unexpectedlydian♯4talk 20:16, 7 July 2022 (UTC)Reply
  • "intended for the fiftieth anniversary" → "intended for the 50th anniversary"
    •   Done
  • Add the year of Sinfonia da Requiem
    •   Done
  • "He was also impressed" → "Hussey was also impressed"
    •   Done
  • Are you sure the correct quotation marks are being used for personal choice?
    • That's what's used in the source, do you think it should be quotation marks?
  • Add the year of Ave verum corpus
    •   Done Also added Mozart.
  • "was visiting the United States" → "was visiting the US" per MOS:US
    •   Done
  • Pipe W. F. Stead to William Force Stead
    •   Done
  • "the eighteenth century poet" → "the 18th century poet"
    •   Done
  • "Walter Hussey sent Britten a" → "Hussey sent Britten a"
    •   Done
  • "within piece, such as "3." but shouldn't the plural "pieces" be used since you use such as?
    • Should be "Hussey sent Britten a questionnaire with clarification questions about the text used within the piece, such as" - I've changed it now.
  • Is the note actually part of the original quote? If not, place in brackets after the quote finishes.
    • Yep, the note is part of the quote! He seemed quite eccentric!
  • Last para looks good!

Text

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  • Img looks good!
  • "from Jubilte Agno by Christopher Smart." → "from Jubilte Agno by Smart."
    •   Done
  • Pipe Enlightenment to Age of Enlightenment
    •   Done
  • Wikilink alcoholism
    •   Done
  • "and lighthearted playfulness."" → "and lighthearted playfulness"." per MOS:QUOTE
    •   Done
  • Wikilink taboo
    •   Done

Composition

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  • "Mystic Praise, Closing Hymn." → "Mystic Praise, and Closing Hymn."
    •   Done
  • Wikilink Old Testament and Nimrod on the img text
    •   Done
  • Pipe organ to Organ (music)
    •   Done
  • Remove pipe on triads to avoid WP:SEAOFBLUE
    •   Done
  • Any sentence with a direct quote used needs the appropriate ref(s) invoked at the end of it
    • I think that's done now.
  • "of this section changes" → "of the section changes"
    •   Done
  • Wikilink time signatures
    •   Done
  • Again, is this the correct form of English to have commas before and or not?
  • "of this 'Opening Hymn' section" → "of the Opening Hymn section"
    •   Done
  • "that the 'Hallelujah' section" → "that the Hallelujah section"
    •   Done
  • Add the year of Symphony of Psalms
    •   Done
  • Pipe triplet to Tuplet
    •   Done
  • Pipe duple to Metre (music)
    •   Done
  • Pipe semiquavers to Sixteenth note
    •   Done
  • "with elegant quickness."" → "with elegant quickness"." per MOS:QUOTE
    •   Done
  • "with a "mocking" quavers" → "with "mocking" quavers"
    •   Done Have altered this sentence slightly.
  • Pipe register to Register (music)
    •   Done
  • "that this passage is" → "that the passage is"
    •   Done
  • Pipe pianissmo to Dynamics (music)
    •   Done
  • "duties under God, and anguishes over how he can preserve the cause of God." → "duties under him, and anguishes over how he can preserve his cause."
    •   Done
  • "This section of Rejoice in the Lamb can" → "The section can"
    •   Done
  • "Imogen Holst compares this motif" → "Imogen Holst compares the motif" with the wikilink
    •   Done
  • Add the year of Peter Grimes
    •   Done
  • Pipe chromatic to Diatonic and chromatic
    •   Done
  • "echoing the 'Hallelujah' passage" → "echoing the Hallelujah passage"
    •   Done
  • Pipe bass to Bass (voice type)
    • Wikilinked first instance in this section.
  • "in all twenty-six letters" → "in all 26 letters" per MOS:NUM
    •   Done
  • Wikilink F major
    •   Done
  • "the like...") drawing comparisons" → "the like..."), drawing comparisons"
    •   Done
  • Pipe Music of the Spheres to Musica universalis
    •   Done
  • "writes that this passage" → "writes that the passage"
    •   Done
  • "of the 'Hallelujah" section" → "of the Hallelujah section"
    •   Done

Critical response

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  • Wikilink Church music
    •   Done
  • Any sentences with usage of direct quotes need the ref invoked at the end
    • Think this is fixed.
  • "Imogen Holst similarly writes that" → "Holst similarly writes that"
    • I'd rather leave this as Imogen Holst, as I'd imagine most readers would instinctively read "Holst" as being Gustav Holst, her dad.
  • She is the only Holst mentioned in this article though and it is past the first mention by here, also remove the wikilink. --K. Peake 06:24, 7 July 2022 (UTC)Reply
  • I'm still nervous about people instinctively assuming it's Gustav Holst. as a demonstration, "Holst" redirects to Gustav Holst. Imogen Holst is nowhere near as famous. It's similar to Bach vs. CPE Bach, for example. How about keeping her full name for the first instance of each section? Such as in 'Arrangements'. Unexpectedlydian♯4talk 20:05, 7 July 2022 (UTC)Reply
  • Fix MOS:QUOTE issues in this section
    • I've added attributions to the end of each sentence. Is there anything else I'm missing?
  Done Unexpectedlydian♯4talk 20:09, 7 July 2022 (UTC)Reply
  • "Britten's setting of..." I don't think this sentence is needed, as you have only provided two reviews following the last overview by here
    •   Done
  • "the usual categories..."." → "the usual categories..."" per the ellipsis ending the quote
    •   Done
  • "Furthermore, according the review," → "Furthermore, according to the review,"
    •   Done
  • "which admirable restraint." → "with admirable restraint."
    •   Done

Arrangements

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  • "An version of" → "A version of"
    •   Done
  • "was arranged by Imogen Holst" → "was arranged by Holst"
    • Again, I'd rather this was left as Imogen Holst because "Holst" alone always refers to Gustav.
  • Remove wikilink on BBC
    •   Done

References

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Citations

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  • Cite Archives Hub as publisher instead on ref 45
    •   Done

Bibliography

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  Done

  • Remove wikilinks on Faber & Faber after the first instance

  Done

  • Ditto for American Choral Directors Association

  Done

Final comments and verdict

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For H is a Spirit

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Nobody seems to have picked up the alternative meaning of the line "For H is a spirit"; there seems at first sight no reason to associate the letter H with a spirit. But read it as "For H is aspirate" and a secondary meaning becomes apparent. I don't know of any references, and it may even be original research on my part [which would astonish me!].

86.11.96.95 (talk) 13:28, 2 January 2023 (UTC)Reply