Talk:Raseborg Castle

Name in English

This is the English language wikipedia. The name of the castle can not be in Finnish! -- Petri Krohn 15:09, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

Ok. Moved it. --KFP 10:49, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

But it can be in Swedish???? Are you on drugs?! The names of Helsinki, Vaasa and Turku are in Finnish. Why do you hate the Finnish people so much? --Jaakko Sivonen 06:54, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Jaakko you don't seem to get that the names are their historical as well as their current names (see for instance the National Board of Antiquities homepage. By changing the names into Finnish, you change the historical fact that it was a Swedish castle and its name is Raseborg - also in English. If we are talking about Vasa from a historical perspective, we should talk about Vasa (1606-1855), Nikolaistad (1855-1917), Vasa in the beginning of the 20th century until the majority became Finnish, I haven't had the possibility to check yet when the language condition shifted there. --MoRsE 10:00, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Not so exactly. While Raseborg may be Raseborg in English, it results mainly from the current demographics according to language. Vaasa is Vaasa in English also when discussing its past because it's a municipality where the majority speaks Finnish. There is absolutely no need to cut a continuous history of a place into sections and name it inconsistently according to past language policies. An early London is London and not Londinium but we can write about Londinium in an article about London in discussing a Roman London. In analogy, we can speak of a Swedish period of Finland and Vaasa (and of course mention that during that time Vasa was the only "official name" that was used). The case of Finland and the naming conventions should not make any exceptions but should follow the naming conventions that are in use everywhere else and in other multilingual countries in particular (e.g. Ireland, Switzerland, Belgium). In foreign languages, the foremost aspect of toponymy should follow the current demographics and not past language policies and this is the approach chosen also by the UN. See toponyms of Finland. Clarifer 08:23, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Why don't we talk of Istanbul but Constantinople until 1453 and of Danzig instead of Gdańsk until 1945'? Ultrix 23:04, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Because there was a long time when the cities were ONLY known as Constatinople or Danzig (both domestically and outside) and not at all as Istanbul or Gdansk. They are not similar cases. The case of Finland resembles more that of Ireland: the Finnish and Swedish place names have existed side by side for centuries, even though the places were earler officially dealt with only in Swedish. Let's take a few examples: Turku, the oldest city in Finland has been known as Turku in Finnish for at least as long as the city has been known as Abo in Swedish though of course only the Swedish name was previously official. This is the case with most place names in Finland. When e.g. Villmanstrand was granted city priviledges and received an official Swedish name, the market place on the shore of Lapvesi had already for long been referred to as Lapvedenranta in Finnish rendering the place name Lappeenranta. etc. etc. See also e.g. talk: Russo-Swedish War (1741-1743). Let's not confuse past language policies with historical realities. Also, please realise that the foremost determinant with regard to the Toponyms of Finland are the current demographics and, again, not a past language policy. This is also accepted and supported by the U.N. Again, no need to cut a continuous history into sections. Clarifer 14:49, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Fully supporting Clarifer here. --Drieakko 16:06, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was Castle of Raseborg → Raseborg Castle — Per naming conventions (see Category:Castles in Finland). English does not use genetives Raseborgs or Raaseporin here.. I can't move it because a redirect already exists. —Pudeo (Talk) 21:19, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.

• Support. --Drieakko 03:07, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
• Support. --MoRsE 08:03, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Discussion

Any additional comments:

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

This article has been renamed from Castle of Raseborg to Raseborg Castle as the result of a move request. --KFP (talk | contribs) 19:06, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

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