Talk:Rap metal/Archive 1

Stuck Mojo anyone

What about Stuck mOJO the guys that pioneered this genre?

Redirect

Rap Metal should be redirected to rap rock —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.49.4.29 (talk) 22:14, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Because...? --Pwnage8 (talk) 00:55, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

No it should not .Rap-metal Rapcore and rap rock are three diffrent genres. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.118.200.168 (talk) 02:06, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

Potential deletion?

Anyone got a good reason for this to have it's own article? It's got barely any actual information, certainly not enough to warrant a page, a single source (and it's allmusic to boot) to back it up, and a tiny list of bands within the genre.

In truth, while some metal bands do fuse elements of rap with their music, it's hardly worth being termed a true "genre", any more than playing in a technical style is, or playing a style with keyboards, or a style with a particular pitch of vocals. Many so-called "rap metal" bands are in truth rap rock/rapcore, and those few that could be termed "rap metal" are usually better termed something else and then it be noted in their article that they have rap elements.

In short, I can't see a good reason for this article to exist. Number of bands? No. Number of sources? No. Bulk of information, justifying a separate page? No (it could easily be merged into "rap rock"). Simple logical reasoning behind it being given true "genre" status? No. It hasn't got anything. While the term "rap metal" no doubt exists, so do terms like "pirate metal" or "flower metal". Not everything is put forward as a true genre on par with black metal, thrash metal, etc. Those are distinct styles with many bands and sources to back them up. This is just a convenient term people use, and without enough to distinguish it enough to warrant a page of it's own. Prophaniti (talk) 01:57, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

list

Most so called rapcore band are in truth rap metal.

ther are many rap metal bands limpb bizkit ,fiath no more,stuck mojo ,linkin park (early),vanilla ice,bionic jive.

I propose that the rapcore article be renamed rap-metal —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.118.200.168 (talk) 00:05, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

That's going to be a bit difficult considering there -is- no rapcore article.

Most of those you list only illustrate my point: the lack of genuine "rap metal" bands. Limp Bizkit, Vanilla Ice and Linkin Park have more or less zero heavy metal in their music (distorted guitars is by no means something exclusively "heavy metal", they appear also in rock, punk and grunge). They are rap rock bands, sometimes termed "nu metal", but that's another issue. Regardless, they're not "rap metal" by any means. Faith No More used rapping in their songs, but are an alternative metal band at heart. The other two I've not heard.

Still, the point remains: what is there to truly distinguish "rap metal" as a genre worthy of an article to itself? Even if accepted as existing, the only real aspect of it is that it's heavy metal using rap vocals. That's not a genre, that's a trait/quality of the music. A genre is a number of traits common to a selection of bands distinct from other existing genres, but similar enough to one another to be grouped together sonically. Add to this the sheer lack of bands that could be put into such a "genre", and the lack of sources here to back it up, and there's really no case I can see for this article's limited info not being merged into rap rock. Prophaniti (talk) 00:18, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

This is a valid article and I will soon improve it when I got the time. I have sources and material. If you think the page should be deleted, then the articles about "Sludge metal, "Drone metal", and "Viking metal" should be deleted/merged before that. They are more questionable as real genres. "Rap metal" has been used as a genre since late 80's by both people, bands and reviewers and it gets 756 000 + 28 800 hits on google. So it deserves it's own article.

List of groups: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Rap_metal_musical_groups

Rap metal bands: Rage against the machine, Stuck Mojo, Clawfinger, Methods of mayhem, etc.

Bands that are rap metal as well as other genres: (Many bands fall in under more than one genre, as you might know) Biohazard, Body Count, Kid Rock, Vanilla Ice, etc.

Also, the collaborations by rap and metal artists are rap metal: Anthrax & Public Enemy, Slayer & Ice-T, Metallica & Kid Rock, etc.

There also exists a underground scene of rap metal bands.

You seem to have made up your mind about this genre, but the fact you think it's as valid as "Pirate metal" shows you don't know much about it. Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it should be deleted/merged.

83.255.38.54 (talk) 13:43, 18 December 2008 (UTC) / Thrasher

Sorry, but again, your arguments only work against you.

1.) Google hits count for nothing, sorry.

2.) I never said it's "as valid as pirate metal", I simply made the point that there is a difference between a term people use (like pirate metal) and a genuine assertion of genre.

3.) The wikipedia list is, as I have said, greatly flawed. The majority of those aren't metal in the least. Some are, yes, but just because a handful of bands could be termed something is not, in itself, justification of an article.

4.) Artists collaborating is also meaningless.

5.) Any user saying "There is an underground scene" is also not a good argument unless it's backed up.

6.) Bands can indeed fall under more than one genre heading, but the point I'm making is a genre is formed when a number of bands play a style that cannot easily be put under existing headings. See death metal: death metal emerged out of thrash metal. Early death metal was termed simply a particular flavour of thrash metal. Eventually, the number of bands combined with the growing difference in musical style led to the coining of this new term. All that's distinct about "rap metal" is that some bands use rap style vocals. That's not a genre, that's a trait or quality of the music.

7.) Drone and sludge are not my area, sorry. Viking I've moved for the removal of before for the same reasons.

I don't dislike this type of music by any means. But your arguments don't match up to wikipedia guidelines for the most part; you haven't yet provided a good number of reliable sources for the genre; and there are hardly any bands that could adequately be termed "rap metal".

RE: Different guy:

1). Okay, but it still exists

2). Bands have used it to name their style

3). We can expand it

4). Why? It helped shape different musical styles

5). There is

6). Yes, its a trait, but it is very distinctive. Tool with rap vocals would be much different. See, these rap artists take heavy riffs and the heavy murk of Alt. Metal, and rap over it. These lyrics are so much different from reg. Alt. Metal artists (2 traits), plus they often have a different ideals than Alt. Metal artists. They use the rap for "cred" and tough-guy personas. It is a new characteristic of hard rock. It should be noted. + Rap Metal usually has no hip-hop beats incorporated to the music, making it distinctly different from Nu-Metal.

7). But the guy has a point. This is more legit than Viking Metal.

Prophaniti (talk) 14:31, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

ugh

Rolling Stone writer Neil Strauss wrote that "The Battle of Los Angeles is to rap metal what Public Enemy's It Takes a Nation of Millions was to hip-hop: It brings the noise, with Morello's guitar the equivalent of Terminator X's turntables."

So just because this bozo's career for whatever reason had him at Rolling Stone for a while, this ludicrous, uninformed piece of bland half-assed vapid whitebread pop-journalism gets presented as - for all intents and purposes - fact in an encyclopedia? What a complete and utter joke. In fact, I'll remove it. Jamieli (talk) 17:45, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Rapcore

I believe that the "rapcore" article should be merged or redirected to this page. There are several sources that state that these are interchangeable terms. Allmusic, The New Metal Masters, etc. Besides basically all the bands mentioned in the article are rap metal and nu metal bands.RG (talk) 22:07, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

NO! Kottonmouth Kings e.g. are NEITHER Nu metal NOR Rap metal. If this step was done, Punk had to be merged into Metal. --188.100.27.155 (talk) 14:20, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

Untitled

Linkin Park combines them too. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.202.167.71 (talk) 18:16, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

untitled

This article is very awkwardly written. Every other sentence contains the word "fused". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.174.209.133 (talk) 10:19, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

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Comment by unregistered user 101.100.139.248

I never in my life thought I'd see sixn8ne, xtentacle etc in an article in the metal genre's category. Absolutely cursed article 101.100.139.248 (talk) 02:46, 27 July 2019 (UTC)

Mordred

Don't leave this band out 2003:C9:EF08:B1F4:30A0:15E:126C:4BAF (talk) 16:41, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

I don't see any publications saying that Mordred (band) was important to rap metal. Zero. Binksternet (talk) 16:49, 13 January 2023 (UTC)