Talk:Rade Šerbedžija

Croatian actor?

How can he be called a Croatian actor, if, as ethnic Serbs and political Yugoslavs, he and his family were expelled from Croatia the minute it seceded from Yugoslavia and gained independence? He was born and had lived in the territory what would become Croatian country in 1991, but modern Croatia gained its independence through violent secession and war against Yugoslav Army ("Greater Serbian aggression") as well as civil war against its Serbian minority ("Greater Serbian rebellion") which ended in mass expulsions. Also, while the ideology of Croatian state within Yugoslavia was that beside Croatians, Serbs were also recognized as a nation in Croatia, and that Croats and Serbs were bounded by 'brotherhood and unity' manifested in one same language and origin, the ideology of contemporary independent Croatian country is quite different, stating a clear line of distinction between the two and taking great pride in Croatian ethnic, linguistic and cultural distinctiveness from Serbs, particularly Serbian ethnic minority in Croatia. He is a Hollywood actor of Serbian origin and ex-Yugoslavian actor... And how should "Croatian actor" be defined in the context of Yugoslavia, since there were no separate ethnic/state theaters or film industries during Yugoslavia, but all the films were considered part of Yugoslavian cinematography, due to mixed and mutual contribution of directors, screenwriters, actors, studios etc. regardless of their ethnic or state background?

Again and again Serbian lies — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.252.237.108 (talk) 06:12, 28 August 2016 (UTC)

This was discussed several times before, look throuigh the archive. Serbedzija is an ethnic Serb from Croatia, which makes him Croatian. He was born in Croatia, he was educated in Croatia, he spent most of his career in Croatia, and even today he splits his time between Hollywood and Croatia and appears in Croatian films and theatre. Everything else is irrelevant here as this article is about the actor, not about political upheavals in the region. Timbouctou (talk) 15:23, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

I too noticed this. I don't intend to get political, but as stated above - and coming from Yugoslavia, I can confirm that - there were no separate or identifiable Serbian/Croatian/Bosnian cinematography within Yugoslavia, no matter where something was filmed, or what was the director's ethnicity. Only after the dissolution of Yugoslavia, it makes sense to call someone or something Serbian or Croatian actor, director, film etc., or if in their entire career they worked locally. Not only Serbedzija, but many others from other Yugoslav republics were active on Yugoslavia-level and are still recognized in all ex-Yugoslav region as domestic actors because of that. It was one market and one cinematography. Just saying "Croatian actor of ethnic Serb origin" implies that he is someone who is characteristic only to Croatia. But Serbedzija is domestic not only to Croatia, but to Serbia, Bosnia, Montenegro... Just 2 cents from a bystander.178.223.70.47 (talk) 16:12, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

It's well documented that he identifies as a "Yugoslav" and has tried his best throughout his career to be apolitical regarding Serbia and Croatia (he is involved in philanthropy in both countries theatres). Although it is true that most people who identify as "Yugoslavs" are Serbs. He was also frequently spotted at Croatian sporting events cheering for Croatia and his son Danilo has openly declared to be Croatian. Certainly how he (Rade) identifies is a personal issue for him and not to be decided on Wikipedia.23.233.17.77 (talk) 22:36, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

You have a misconception of these terms ... Šerbedžija is a Croat citizen, and thus a Croat actor. To be inclusive, the information pertaining to his ethnicity is also listed, albeit not really necessary. Cameosis (talk) 04:32, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

Croatian, not Croat.--Zoupan 06:09, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

In such cases we add ethnicity. He wasnt born in Croatia, it didnt exist as a state, but Yugoslavia. --PetarM (talk) 17:28, 22 December 2017 (UTC)

I'm afraid you are very much mistaken, PetarM. He was born in Croatia, the state did exist and we most certainly do not add ethnicity when the subject is not notable for the ethnicity. Since being a Serb rather than a Croat or an Inuit has meant nothing to Šerbedžija's acting career (for which he is notable) at all, emphasizing it in the lead is hardly helpful. Surtsicna (talk) 18:05, 22 December 2017 (UTC)

Surtsicna i think you dont get it. It was not state, but federal republic. Its should be stated Yugoslav actor, and later Croat, American,... you dont add Kentucky actor, or Wels actor, but American or British actor. --PetarM (talk) 18:46, 22 December 2017 (UTC)

It was a state; thus the State Anti-fascist Council for the National Liberation of Croatia. It was not a country, however. But that's semantics. One could argue that Šerbedžija became internationally notable after Yugoslavia collapsed (which, by the way, occurred in no small part due to the incessant Croat-or-Serb hagglings such as this one). Our article says that he resides in Croatia, so describing him as an American or British actor might not be entirely appropriate. "Yugoslav and Croatian" might work, however. Surtsicna (talk) 22:31, 22 December 2017 (UTC)

personal life

Section was written by someone who obviously can`t make sentences in English properly. Also Operation storm was in May of 1995. in Western Slavonia. So how could his parents flee during that Operation in 1991. from Vinkovci which is in Eastern Slavonia?

I would like to higlight a HUGE mistake in the article, like the person who wrote above me, but to be more precise: Operation Storm has taken place 5.-8. of August 1995. year in areas of nord Dalmacia, Lika and western Slavonia. 82.196.41.196 (talk) 12:56, 26 October 2017 (UTC)i'mformdifferentplaces

References

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Rade Šerbedžija. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120312052810/http://www.jutarnji.hr/lenka-udovicki--da-bi-rade-uspio-u-hollywoodu--zrtvovala-sam-vlastitu-karijeru/151429 to http://www.jutarnji.hr/lenka-udovicki--da-bi-rade-uspio-u-hollywoodu--zrtvovala-sam-vlastitu-karijeru/151429/

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 09:53, 30 November 2017 (UTC)

Lead sentence

What exactly is the problem with defining an actor born in Croatia and living in Croatia as a Croatian actor? To me this is calling a spade a spade. Surtsicna (talk) 22:37, 18 April 2018 (UTC)

The problem is that sources say he is a Serb from Croatia, he was born in Yugoslavia, and has been working quite a lot in Serbia. During war in Croatia he came to Serbia (just as vast majority of Croatian Serbs did) and didntstayed in Croatia. The fact that he has a home in Croatia nowadays is hardly enough for labeling him as Croatian. We have many sources claiming diffeerent things (Croatian Serb, Serb, Croatian, Yugoslav...), WP:UNDUE should be applied. FkpCascais (talk) 01:36, 19 April 2018 (UTC)

And an actor who is a Serb from Croatia is a Croatian actor. Please take a look at Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Biographies#Context. We do not define people by their ethnicity but we do define them by "the country of which the person is a citizen, national or permanent resident". Šerbedžija does not just have a home in Croatia. He also works there; I should hope it is beyond dispute that he is primarily associated with Croatia. In this book he is defined as a "Croatian actor of Serb ethnicity and a decades-long resident of Zagreb", "working on both national and supranational levels (Croatian and Yugoslav in his case)" and on "a number of projects including the filming of Croatian national classics". The sources we have do not claim different things, as "Croatian" does not exclude "Serb" or vice versa. One is a nationality and the other is an ethnicity. That is why one can be a Croatian Serb and why this has nothing to do with WP:UNDUE. Surtsicna (talk) 08:13, 19 April 2018 (UTC)

Surtsicna is right. Fkp, Ethnicity should generally not be in the lead unless it is relevant to the subject's notability. It is said so in the Wiki manual of style. I don't see the relevance here. It's similar with Tesla. He hardly has any connections to Serbia and you would like to call him a Serbian scientist/inventor. Tesla was born and lived in Croatia and America. Rade was born and lives in Croatia. Just face the fact that Serbs live in Croatia that America is full of many ethnicites and so on. By your logic no one would be an American something...Also by your logic Novak Djokovic is Croatian/Montenegrin tennis player, but you won't accept that. To you he's a Serbian tennis player, although he is not Serbian by ethnicity but half Croat and half Montenegrin. Well, he lives and works from Serbia, has Serbian nationality and that's why label him as a Serbian tennis player. I know how hard you tried to argue otherwise, but you know we had RfCs and how they finished. Do we really need another one here? 141.138.35.187 (talk) 20:59, 19 April 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for your input, but would you mind logging in? I think FkpCascais was simply not aware that Šerbedžija doesn't just "have a home in Croatia nowadays", i.e. that he has actually lived in Croatia for the vast majority of his life and career, including the present time. Hopefully that's sorted now. Surtsicna (talk) 21:47, 19 April 2018 (UTC)

I don't have an account. 141.138.35.187 (talk) 22:17, 19 April 2018 (UTC)

Oh, forgive me. You do sound like you have quite a history here. Surtsicna (talk) 22:25, 19 April 2018 (UTC)

Fkp, just deal with the fact that Yugoslavia broke apart. Serbedzija was born in Croatia which has since broke away from Yugoslavia. You can't say that he wasn't born in Croatia just because Croatia was a part of Yugoslavia back then. SR Croatia was a federal state and he was born in SR Croatia. Yugoslavia doesn't exist any more but Croatia does. The same happened for Tesla. He was born in Croatia which was then a part of Austrian Empire. As you know, much later Tesla himself has said that he was born in Croatia. Austrian Empire didn't exist any more and why would he say that he was born in Austrian Empire when Croatia existed at the time he was born there and throughout his life. Look we live in the real word. 141.138.35.187 (talk) 22:12, 19 April 2018 (UTC)

Also, look Fkp. I noticed that you reverted 3 times and you didn't start any discussion. It was Surtsicna who started the discussion, but you are the one who is seeking a consensus, since you want to change a long standing edit. You should have stared the discussion instead of edit warring. 141.138.35.187 (talk) 22:16, 19 April 2018 (UTC)

I am sensing some battleground here and I do not like that. Please try to remain calm and don't make it personal. Surtsicna (talk) 22:25, 19 April 2018 (UTC)

Ok, sorry. Basically, my stand is that we should apply the same principle that was agreed on Novak Djokovic RfC. In the lead it's stated that he is a Serbian tennis player, and later on his ethnicity is stated, but not in the lead. I know that you Fkp didn't agree with that RfC, but a lot of editors had participated and we have reached a consensus there. We should apply it here. 141.138.35.187 (talk) 22:36, 19 April 2018 (UTC)

@Surtsicna: this is User:Asdisis who is indef-blocked. The guy is totally obsessed with Croatian-Serbian debates. At Nikola Tesla he was so stubborn that he got himself indef-blocked. Ever since, he has been around contributing as IP. Numerous admins have been blocking his IPs but he just says he will change the IP and continue. His case will probably reach the highest levels and will potentially create new mechanisms to fight such obssessive editors/vandals. At least some of us hope, cause he has been the extreme exemple of how IP can be indefinitelly missused by indef-blocked editors. Regarding the issues in discussion, he is often more usefull to opposite side then his own. His nationalistic and victimizational rethoric and arguments end up mostly helping the opposite side. Then, he has this personal issue with me, since I am Serbian. Surtsicna, you are a Croatian editor and I a Serbian one, so we will possibly clash in some articles. As I say in my user-page "I prefer to have healty discussions with people that I disagree with than having rude unpolite "friends". It is actually a good thing to have editors from all sides, I believe it helps reaching NPOV generally. In my view we should always aim for an edit everyone agrees on. So, we should try to involve more editors here to reach a consensus. FkpCascais (talk) 01:27, 20 April 2018 (UTC)

No, FkpCascais, I am not a Croatian editor. If that's something you figured out from my stance in this discussion, you must have taken part in too many Croatian-Serbian debates :D Surtsicna (talk) 19:25, 20 April 2018 (UTC)

@Surtsicna:, as you see, Fkp and I know each other from before. He's been forever accusing me of being a sock. Regardless of this our dispute, there is a RfC on Novak Djokovic page about the same issue as here and we should use it. I agree about involving more editors. We can ping editors who participated in Novak Djokovic RfC. 141.138.35.187 (talk) 07:12, 20 April 2018 (UTC)

I agree with the present wording. Rade Šerbedžija was born, lives and works from Croatia. He is a Croatian actor of Serbian ethnicity. I see the Dokovic discussion where it was agreed that ethnicity shouldn't be in the lead, but is stated later on. If everything works there , it should also work here. Best regards. Bilseric (talk) 07:35, 20 April 2018 (UTC)

Yeah, RfC on Novak Djokovic page got unanimous 11 to 0 opinions that ethnicity shouldn't be in the lead. The conclusion, stated by uninvolved admin is stated in that RfC. Even Fkp was advocating that ethnicity shouldn't be stated. Bdw, we should apply the same principe on Tesla article since he also has ethnicity stated in the lead. I know Fkp will accuse me of bias, but that's a Wiki guideline and an opinion of numerous editors on Novak Djokovic RfC. 89.164.132.71 (talk) 16:18, 20 April 2018 (UTC)

So "Croatian" means what, that he has Croatian passport? FkpCascais (talk) 16:29, 20 April 2018 (UTC)

No. It means that he has lived in Croatia almost his entire life and that he has been associated primarily with Croatia throughout his career. A physician from France is a French physician; a lawyer from Spain is a Spanish lawyer; and an actor from Croatia is a Croatian actor. That has nothing to do with their ethnic or racial backgrounds. Rasim Ljajić is a Serbian politician despite him not being a Serb. Surtsicna (talk) 19:25, 20 April 2018 (UTC)

Same goes for Novak Djokovic. Serbian tennis player although not being Serbian by ethnicity. Why are you now wondering about this , while you were against including ethnicity to Novak Djokovic page at all? Not just in the lead. You wanted it completely out of the article. 89.164.132.71 (talk) 19:58, 20 April 2018 (UTC)

I think we got your point about Djokovic. His name has been mentioned 17 times in this section. No reason to bring him up for an 18th time. Surtsicna (talk) 20:06, 20 April 2018 (UTC)

Good. Then, I think we can conclude this. 89.164.132.71 (talk) 20:09, 20 April 2018 (UTC)

He is as much Croatian as Serbian actor. Still no clear point. Also, he has not been associated to Croatia, that doesnt even make sense. FkpCascais (talk) 10:35, 21 April 2018 (UTC)

If you are seriously claiming that Šerbedžija is associated with Serbia (where he lived for a year) as much as he is with Croatia (where he was born and where he has lived and worked for decades up to the present day) then I must conclude that your judgement is severely impaired by your patriotism. If, on the other hand, you are still confusing ethnicity with country of residence, the only explanation I have is that you have made no effort to grasp the distinction. Surtsicna (talk) 19:09, 22 April 2018 (UTC)

He's been doing this for ages. Most recently here [1]. 89.164.132.71 (talk) 20:24, 22 April 2018 (UTC)

Missing tv credit.

2022 - The Old Man - episode 6 - Suleyman Pavlovich 24.224.35.105 (talk) 01:52, 17 July 2022 (UTC)