Talk:President of Brazil/Archive (counter)d

Former Presidents

What about former Presidents? Has they protection of security after leaving office and pension? But what If President was, like Collor, removed

As long as I know (and I am Brazilian), former presidents have no privilege other than the respect due to a former head of state. Here is a sum-up of the situation of former Brazilian presidents:

• The military presidents were usually despised and lived privately, without ever manifesting publicly. Both Geisel and Figueired died without much publicity.
• Jânio Quadros was elect mayor in São Paulo, but before and after that he was not under much public scrutiny nor had much influence of a public office. He died as a common man.
• Sarney has been a senator since 1990,
• Fernando Collor has been recently elected senator for his state, Alagoas,
• Itamar Franco was a diplomat for a time but now holds no public office
• Fernando Henrique Cardoso holds no public office, but is an important leader of his party (though his importance is slowly waning).

jggouvea 21:44, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Former presidents ARE entitled to special protection and privileges after finishing their terms of office. The Brazilian Constitution and specific laws (Lei Nº 1.593; 6.095; 7.481; 8.400) guarantee these benefits:

• Life-long pension (equivalent to the salary of the ministers of the Supreme Federal Tribunal),
• Permanent security protection (by the Presidential Guard - Batalhão da Guarda Presidencial),
• The use of two official cars (for life),
• Repository funding for a Presidential library,
• Life-long monthly pension for widows and daughters of ex-presidents.

Limongi 00:55, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

What is the President's salary? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.231.110.248 (talk) 23:37, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

File:Fernando Collor - foto oficial.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion

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Merger Proposal

Most of the articles have duplicated info, while the other article that should be a list has more history text than this, and this also have a list. Jack Bufalo Head (talk) 13:41, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

• Strongly oppose. Several countries have two distinct articles, one dealing with the office of President (or other kind of Head of State), and another providing a list of office holders, with the corresponding terms of office (and, in the case of presidents who died in office, or who were removed on impeachment, or who resigned, such lists usually provide the relevant information in footnotes). Consider the different article on the British Monarchy and the List of British monarchs, on the President of the United States and the List of Presidents of the United States, on the President of Argentina and the List of Presidents of Argentina, the article on the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom and the other on the List of Prime Ministers of the United Kingdom, etc., this last list article also containing a considerable amount of text and information. And, the case of countries that have had a turbulent political history, with the interruption of one regime and the start of another era, even articles that are lists provide the necessary information. Futhermore, the list contained in the List of Presidents of Brazil article is way more detailed than the list contained in the President of Brazil article (that is actually just a picture gallery, without even the exact dates of the beggining and end of each presidential term). If one list should be deleted, it should be the picture gallery list in the President of Brazil article, and the List of Presidents of Brazil article should be left as it is. Also, the footnotes contained in the List of Presidents of Brazil article are very informative, and contain information regarding the circumnstances of the abnormal termination or start of several presidential terms that are not contained in the President of Brazil article. So, a merger would result in loss of relevant information. For all the above reasons, I oppose the merger proposal.Antonio Basto (talk) 17:17, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

Ok then, I removed the templates.Jack Bufalo Head (talk) 13:55, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

Dilma Rousseff's addressing

The word for President in Portuguese is "Presidente". It is valid for a male president ("the president" would be "o presidente") and also for a female president ("a presidente"). There is also the exclusive female form "Presidenta". Both are acceptable. So why the infobox is that way in the article?

It would be more correct this way:

Presidential styles of Dilma Rousseff
Reference style	Excelentíssima Senhora Presidenta/Presidente da República "Her Excellency Madam President of the Republic"
Spoken style	Presidenta/Presidente da República "President of the Republic"
Alternative style	Senhora Presidenta/Presidente "Madam President"

Fasouzafreitas (talk) 20:57, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

Rousseff prefers the style "Presidenta", rather than Presidente. While she is incumbent, the infobox should reflect her form of addressing, no matter our personal opinions. I've changed the infobox to reflect the current state of affairs. Zelani (talk) 02:47, 10 October 2014 (UTC)

Can we talk about this? Someone reverted the edit to "Presidente" without discussing it here. I think the article should reflect official usage, notwithstanding our personal preferences, but I'm open to discussion. Zelani (talk) 18:44, 9 August 2015 (UTC) Zelani (talk) 18:44, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

Should we replace Dilma Rousseff with Michel Temer as the incumbent president?

I've noticed several Wikipedias in other languages have done so, and the List of Presidents of Brazil article has included Temer. However, Roussef is technically still President of Brazil, while Temer is only acting, perhaps temporarily. What is the best course of action? WPancake (talk) 13:08, 14 May 2016 (UTC)

A temporary block on this page certainly. Frenditor (talk) 15:47, 14 May 2016 (UTC)

Dilma Rousseff is President of Brazil, until she dies, resigns or is convicted by the Senate & removed from office, before her second term ends. Therefore, 'til either event occurs? Rousseff 'alone' should be shown. GoodDay (talk) 20:38, 16 May 2016 (UTC)

Michel Temer is the acting president. He should put on the page. Marxistfounder (talk) 04:22, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

Yes, I also agree, the most users here think that Michel Temer should put on this page, only this user GoodDay thinks Dilma Rousseff should be the one, and most other Wikipedias (including the Portuguese Wikipedia, of which Brazil most uses) put Michel Temer as the acting or interim president. And I am Brazilian and I have the knowledge about the impeachment procedure, so Michel Temer should appear as president. Patriotadoseculo (talk) 05:06, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

Everyone is free to add some lines of how the impeachment is going and how Temer is the acting president since Dilma's suspension. NO-ONE had done that yet, everyone just wish to reclace Dilma's photo and pretend everything is explained. Frenditor (talk) 10:41, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

Would this be a good middle ground? WPancake (talk) 13:20, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

Nothing against. Frenditor (talk) 13:22, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

I'd suggest we keep Roussef, she is the de jure President of Brazil, till she resigns, dies or is convicted and removed. The impeachment proceedings would determine whether or not she remains President, and so until then, she is the President. Ahmer Jamil Khan 18:01, 1 June 2016 (UTC)

• Rather than other languages, what do reliable sources use? I've supported Temer in the RFC below but that's based on a quick glance at English-language sources. The general view I get is Temer is there as the acting President given a suspension of Roussef. This seems similar to how US political articles (where I'm more used to) list acting officials such as William Joseph Burns being listed for a single day at List_of_Secretaries_of_State_of_the_United_States#List_of_Secretaries_of_State. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 00:28, 14 June 2016 (UTC)

Rfc: Rousseff or Temer

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

Which person should we be showing in the infobox as the current President of Brazil? GoodDay (talk) 16:35, 13 June 2016 (UTC)

• Temer seems to be considered the interim president per sources such as Telesurv, Forbes (getting "back into office"), the Inquirer and some others. Even though who focus on suspension from the presidency (pending appeal) such as the Guardian calls it a replacement by Temer. [1]. I'd say interim acting president in the same way that a number of US congressoinal and senatorial pages and executive administrative pages have acting positions included. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 00:24, 14 June 2016 (UTC)
• Rousseff with footnote (i.e. status quo) since she's still the President of Brazil, until she either dies, resigns or is removed from office via conviction in her Impeachment trial. Vice President Temer merely has President Rousseff's powers & duties, while Rousseff's impeachment trial is in progress. GoodDay (talk) 00:30, 14 June 2016 (UTC)
  • Do you have a source for that? It seems to me like sources have been calling him the interim president and suggesting a return to the office for her. If she wins on appeal, then she would be back in power but that doesn't mean that he wasn't in power during this time period. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 01:19, 14 June 2016 (UTC)

Do you have a source that has Temer as the 37th President of Brazil? Again, he's only assumed the presidential powers & duties (which means he's acting president), while Rousseff's impeachment trial is in progress. GoodDay (talk) 01:30, 14 June 2016 (UTC)

Care to point out a source that says that "he's only assumed the presidential power and duties"? Other than Wikipedia, are there sources the number the Presidents of Brazil and say that she's still the President of Brazil? Yes, as I've said before, he's an acting official such as those at List_of_Secretaries_of_State_of_the_United_States#List_of_Secretaries_of_State. When those people are in charge, they don't numerically count but they are listed as having been the person in charge so what's the issue here? If Kerry resigned and his deputy secretary took acting charge (the US president is different), we'd put the deputy secretary as the Secretary but acting Secretary. Looking at this Atlantic piece, they discuss Temer and "his presidency" and "his new cabinet" and so on. It seems like WP:Original research to decide that "presidential powers and duties != being the president" versus "numerical president = president" or whatever you have in mind. Is this actually a difference or is there some distinction you're arguing about here? -- Ricky81682 (talk) 07:35, 14 June 2016 (UTC)

According to the Constitution of Brazil - Title IV - Chapter III (Liability of the President of the Republic), Section III, article 86 - paragraph 1 - "The President shall be suspended from his functions". If you read the entire Title IV - Chapter III, you'll see that it doesn't say the Vice President becomes President, while the incumbent President's impeachment trial is occurring. Merely that the Vice President assumes the presidential "functions", for 180 days. If the trial acquits the President during that time, or if no decision is made after 180 days? the President resumes those "functions". The only way the Vice President becomes President (according to the Constitution), is through a vacancy in the presidency (i.e President's resignation, death or removal from office via impeachment conviction), which hasn't happened. GoodDay (talk) 21:08, 14 June 2016 (UTC)

• Both, labelled as "suspended president" and "acting president". This situation is an exceptional one with no real precedent during Wikipedia's existence. (The most recent precedent in a major country I can think of was when George Bush Sr was hospitalized and Quayle was temporarily Acting President.) As I've pointed out previously, Temer's own press office scrupulously avoids using any term except "Presidente em exercício" and "Presidente interino", and if the man himself doesn't consider himself the de jure president, it seems fairly foolish for Wikipedia to be giving him the title; likewise, while Dilma Rousseff still formally holds the title it needs to be clear at a glance that she currently holds no powers. Portuguese and French Wikipedias both follow this route, so we wouldn't be some kind of weird outrider in doing so. ‑ Iridescent 14:48, 14 June 2016 (UTC)

Actually, the 25th amendment wasn't invoked in May 1991 & so Quayle didn't serve as Acting President. However, Bush41 served as Acting President on July 13, 1985 while Reagan had cancer surgery. Cheney was Acting President briefly in 2002 & 2007, while Bush43 had examinations. PS: See my link above, concerning the Constitution of Brazil, for what happens when the President is impeached :) GoodDay (talk) 16:03, 14 June 2016 (UTC)

• Rousseff or Both (her first) Over and above the obvious fact that an acting anything is not the real thing CNN says "Rousseff retains her title as President by law" tellingly she also keeps the salary and residencies. The picture caption makes it clear she is suspended, but for now she is still President. Her deputy has the powers and duties, but not the office. This is legally no different from an extended incapacity. They are going to investigate and vote on whether to take away her presidency, not on whether to re-grant it. Pincrete (talk) 23:58, 14 June 2016 (UTC)
• Both, per Iridescent, clearly labeled as "suspended"/"interim" (or "acting" or whatever phrase is most commonly used for it). Rousseff is still legally and officially the President, but for all practical purposes it's Temer. ansh666 23:43, 15 June 2016 (UTC)
  • And if technically impossible, Rousseff with a footnote would work too. ansh666 22:58, 18 June 2016 (UTC)
• Rousseff with footnote: I doubt that we can include more than one photo for technical reasons, and even if we can, we shouldn't. She's still the president, so she ought not be replaced in this infobox, but we ought to have a footnote reminding readers that someone else has the presidential power at the moment. Basically, I don't think we should make any changes to the infobox; the current setup is best. Nyttend (talk) 16:00, 16 June 2016 (UTC)
• Rousseff with note saying suspended and naming Temer as acting as the article is now. Jytdog (talk) 20:00, 16 June 2016 (UTC)
• Rousseff with footnote: As it stands, for the reasons already put forth - still President of Brazil, just stripped of her powers and duties pending result of impeachment proceedings. MisterRandomized (talk) 08:10, 18 June 2016 (UTC)
• Striking through my previous comment and shifting to Rousseff, having seen how we handle Monarchy of Liechtenstein—a directly equivalent situation, in which all powers have been transferred to Alois as regent but Hans-Adam formally remains head of state at present. ‑ Iridescent 16:29, 19 June 2016 (UTC)
• Roussef summoned by bot Roussef appears to legally still be president, and has given up some of the functions of the office, not the office itself. Vanamonde93 (talk) 07:21, 26 June 2016 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Please correct the presidential house

It is wrongly stating Palácio do Jaburu as the presidential residence when, in fact, it is Palácio da Alvorada.

Michel Temer, former vice-president of Brazil and current president thereof, chose to reside in Palácio do Jaburu after having already moved into Alvorada, but this does not entitle Jaburu as the official presidential residence. He only got the chance to do so because as he took place after Rousseff was impeached, he currently has no VP. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mreis3010 (talk • contribs) 19:32, 15 June 2017 (UTC)

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Bolsonaro from SP

Should the lead state that Bolsonaro is from São Paulo or Rio de Janeiro? I understand Bolsonaro was born in São Paulo state, but he has lived for most of his life and political career in Rio. As far as I know, Barack Obama was considered to be from Illinois and not Hawaii, and Hillary Clinton was from New York, and not Illinois or Arkansas, in the 2016 election. I believe this is the case because they served Illinois and New York in Congress respectively. Likewise, Bolsonaro represented Rio in Congress, not São Paulo. Any thoughts? NoMoreHeroes (talk) 00:53, 2 February 2019 (UTC)

Should use the birth state. This is what this information means. For example, FHC is the opposite, he was born in Rio, but his political life was in SP. Collor also was born in Rio, but his electoral base is in Alagoas. Paladinum2 (talk) 16:06, 17 October 2019 (UTC)

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Vandalism of picture of incumbent president

Two different IP addresses have changed the picture of the incumbent president from Jair Bolsonaro (actual president) to Dilma Rousseff (former president) a combined three times. I reverted it once but it was quickly changed back. Should the article be protected? Annoyedhumanoid (talk) 20:50, 25 January 2020 (UTC)