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Talk:Powell Clayton/GA1

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Latest comment: 3 years ago by Dwkaminski in topic GA Review

GA Review edit

Latest comment: 3 years ago47 comments2 people in discussion
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Reviewer: Hog Farm (talk · contribs) 04:40, 19 March 2021 (UTC)Reply


Lead/Infobox
  • "He became president of the Eureka Springs Improvement ... In 1883, he became president of the Eureka Springs" - Can this be rephrased to avoid having "he became president of the" appear in consecutive sentences?
  • "and as U.S. Ambassador to Mexico from 1899 to 1905." - Donovan says 1897 - 1905
  • Years that he was Republican National Committeeman in the infobox don't appear to be cited
  • Why isn't the controversy, impeachment attempts, and senate hearings mentioned in the lead? Especially since the senate hearing is given a very large amount of information in the body?
    • I added quite a bit more on the arc of his career to the lead including senate investigation. Dwkaminski (talk) 19:01, 23 March 2021 (UTC)Reply
Early life and career
  • Is there a way to briefly gloss what Penn's Council was in a couple words? Most readers are gonna have no idea what that was
    • I removed it and described Clayton as a personal friend and associate of William Penn. Dwkaminski (talk) 15:02, 22 March 2021 (UTC)Reply
  • " Ann (née Clark) Clayton" - Unsure where you're getting "nee Clark". The source doesn't directly say this, so it could have been her original middle name instead of moving here maiden name to that slot; and it's spelled Clarke in the source, as well
    • removed nee - added Donovan reference where he refers to her as (Clarke). Dwkaminski (talk) 11:00, 20 March 2021 (UTC)Reply
  • "became the city engineer of Leavenworth in 1859" - Body says 1860. I've noticed the sources disagree here (Encylopedia of Arkansas says 1860, Donovan says 1859), so it's probably best to state that sources say either 1859 or 1860
American Civil War
  • "In May 1861 Clayton was formally mustered into the U.S. Volunteers as a Captain of company E" - captain is not a proper noun here, so it should be lowercase. Company E is a proper noun, so it should be uppercase
  • It's a fairly minor action, but if you wanted to add a brief summary of Clayton chasing John S. Marmaduke around northeastern Arkansas, there's a JSTOR PDF I linked in the sources at 10th Texas Field Battery when I wrote that article. You can get access to JSTOR through WP:LIBRARY. It wasn't a very big action, though, so its fine if you don't want to add it
  • " three-pronged confederate attack of the forces of General John S. Marmaduke" - Marmaduke's official rank was Brigadier General. There was a Confederate rank that was just "General", so its best to use the official rank of Brigadier General here. Also, Confederate should be capitalized.
  • " three-pronged confederate attack of the forces of General John S. Marmaduke" - Where in the source are you getting "three-pronged"? The sources I've read about Pine Bluff indicate that Marmaduke's plan was more two-pronged. His split his forces into two wings which attacked Pine Bluff from different directions. It could have split into three prongs once the fighting bogged down in town, but the attack itself was planned as two prongs, I believe.
    • Christ - Rugged and Sublime reference - page 100 - The Confederates, attacking from three sides... Dwkaminski (talk) 14:55, 20 March 2021 (UTC)Reply
  • "Clayton commanded the cavalry brigade on the right flank of the Union forces and received a commendation for his actions" - Two issues with this. First, this is far too close to the wording in the source. Second, the source actually states commendations, not just one.
  • "Clayton's regiment accompanied General Frederick Steele's" - I think Steele would have technically been a Major General at that point.
  • Is the John Edwards you quote the same person as John Newman Edwards? If so, wikilink. John Newman Edwards was one of Shelby's staff officers, so I wouldn't be surprised if that were him
  • " in cotton and acquired sufficient capital to purchase a plantation in Jefferson County where he settled after the war" - This is a little too close to the phrasing in the source for my comfort, see WP:CLOSEPARAPHRASING.
  • Encyclopedia of Arkansas source says he did some raid to cooperate with the Camden Expedition, mention that in the article
Governor of Arkansas
  • "confrontations with ex-Rebels on his plantation that convinced him that Unionists required additional protection" - close paraphrasing
  • " Edward Ord was appointed military governor of the Fourth Military District which included Mississippi and Arkansas" - close paraphrasing
  • "He disbanded the legislature and called for a constitutional convention" - close paraphrasing
  • "could take the "ironclad oath" that they had not served in the Confederacy or given aid or comfort to the enemy" - close paraphrasing
    • Slight rewrite. I don't think it is that egregious. Donovan page 44 states "Due to the scarcity of Democrats who could take the "ironclad oath" that they had neither served in the Confederacy nor given "aid or comfort" to the enemy..." Dwkaminski (talk) 12:15, 21 March 2021 (UTC)Reply
  • "Clayton was not a delegate to the constitutional convention but did participate in the Republican state nominating convention which was meeting at the same time. That convention selected Clayton as the Republican gubernatorial nominee and James M. Johnson" - close paraphrasing
  • " and was responsible for more than 200 murders of former slaves and Republicans" - source doesn't state that these murders were of former slaves and Republicans
    • removed former slaves and Republicans - bit of triangulation since Moneyhon states KKK attacked African Americans and Republicans. Dwkaminski (talk) 12:35, 21 March 2021 (UTC)Reply
  • "On April 1, 1868, the state board of election commissioners announced ratification of the constitution and Clayton's election as Governor of Arkansas" - source doesn't mention ratification or the exact date
  • "During this time Arkansas Republican Congressman James Hinds was attacked and killed while on his way to a political event and Clayton survived an attempt on his life. Clayton responded aggressively to the emergence of the Klan in Arkansas by declaring martial law in fourteen counties for four months in late 1868 and early 1869. Clayton organized the state militia and placed General Daniel Phillips Upham in charge to help suppress violence throughout the state" - source doesn't mention the four months detail or identify Hinds or Upham by name
    • Added new reference for Hinds assassination. Added Finley reference for length of martial law. Added new reference (Wintory/encyclopedia of Arkansas) for Daniel Phillips Upham's role in supressing KKK in Arkansas. Dwkaminski (talk) 15:17, 22 March 2021 (UTC)Reply
  • " Arkansas completed its first ever free public school system - close paraphrasing. The only difference between this and the source is that we include the word "ever"
  • "Clayton and the Republicans in the legislature accomplished much during his three-year terms as governor" - Also close paraphrasing
  • "Brooks opposition to" - Should be either Brooks' or Brooks's, depending on your preference as to how nouns ending in s should bear the aposthrophe
  • "legislature never heard the case against the governor" - close paraphrasing
U.S. Senator
  • "they had been given insufficient time to review all of the testimony" - close paraphrasing
  • "Clayton returned to Little Rock, Arkansas where he practiced law and supported economic development" - close paraphrasing. The only differences between this and the source seem to be that "Arkansas" is added and "general" omitted
  • I find it odd that very little besides the hearing is mentioned in this section. Did he not do much as a senator beyond get in trouble?
    • Added a bit about his committee participation. Dwkaminski (talk) 12:24, 23 March 2021 (UTC)Reply
Later life and death
  • "A poem on the fireplace in the lobby of the Crescent Hotel is attributed to Clayton[15] In 1883," - End the sentence with a period
  • Mention that he was involved in the 1896 primaries and presidential election supporting McKinley, per Donovan
  • "On September 9, 1868, he lost his left hand while hunting outside Little Rock when his rifle discharged" - Unclear who he is, the subject of the previous sentence is his daughters

Whew. That's the first round. Once these are addressed, I'll give it another read-through to check for grammar and to make sure all the close paraphrasing got cleaned up. There are some referencing formatting issues as well, but those aren't as significant as the non-supported information and the close paraphrasing, so I will save looking at those until the second round of comments. Hog Farm Talk 03:37, 20 March 2021 (UTC)Reply

Hog Farm, I've tried to address all the issues you raised. Please take a look and let me know what reference format issues you see. Dwkaminski (talk) 13:00, 24 March 2021 (UTC)Reply

Round Two edit

  • Political Graveyard isn't RS. If there's not a better source for that detail available, I think the GA comprehensiveness can still be met with the dates removed
  • Be consistent with how you do the Encyclopedia of Arkansas - italics vs nonitalics
    • I'm not seeing the issue here. Dwkaminski (talk) 19:12, 24 March 2021 (UTC)Reply
      • References are set up slightly different, but it's not an issue. My bad - not part of the GA criteria. I'm use to reviewing for featured articles, and probably have a tendency to blur the FA criteria into GA reviews sometimes. So you can ignore that comment.
  • Ref 26 needs a publisher and accessdate.
  • Ref 22 needs a publisher
    • I have no idea how to edit references that have been archived by Wayback Machine. Dwkaminski (talk) 18:39, 24 March 2021 (UTC)Reply
      • I've added this myself
  • Goodley needs a publisher and ISBN (if applicable)

That's the reference comments. I'll give the prose another read-through soon. Hog Farm Talk 17:45, 24 March 2021 (UTC)Reply

I've made a few minor edits, revert anything you don't agree with.

"William was appointed as the U.S. Attorney for the Western District of Arkansas and served as the chief prosecutor in the court of "hanging judge" Isaac Parker for 14 years" - Can't find this in the source

  • Added new reference for W.H.H. Clayton from encyclopedia of Arkansas. Dwkaminski (talk) 14:04, 25 March 2021 (UTC)Reply

Hog Farm - let me know if there are any other changes you want to see. Thanks! Dwkaminski (talk) 14:05, 25 March 2021 (UTC)Reply

  • We just need to get a consensus on the political graveyard point above. Hog Farm Talk 14:25, 25 March 2021 (UTC)Reply
    • Donovan page 51 lists 1872 as his start date with the RNC. Page 53 states that he was still contacted for federal patronage positions in Arkansas as late as 1912 but I can't find a source beside political graveyard that lists when he left the RNC. You are saying it is preferable to remove dates than keep them with a less than perfect source? Dwkaminski (talk) 15:40, 25 March 2021 (UTC)Reply
      • If we can't source it reliably, we can't source it. I guess my train of thought is that the dates aren't essential for GA (it would be desired in a FA, though), but only using reliable sources is essential. I would recommend dropping it from the infobox, and then adding the 1872 date sourced to Donovan in the text, and add that he was still consulted in 1912 as well. If that's all we can do based on the RS, it's all we can do. Hog Farm Talk 15:52, 25 March 2021 (UTC)Reply
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