Talk:Potiskum Emirate

Removal of sourced information

IP, Please STOP removing sourced information and adding unsourced statements. If you wish to add information, please ensure it is adequately sourced fromreliable sources. - SchroCat (talk) 14:12, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

Agreed. That's three of us now. ♦ Dr. Blofeld 17:12, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

• I have reverted again on the grounds of WP:Block evasion. I suspect that there is a registered user (SPA) also involved in the addition of information. I will file an addendum onto the 3RR report. - SchroCat (talk) 15:40, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

Hi EDJohnston thanks for your reply, I am glad to hear you are the administrator here:

I agree Wikipedia is not a place for campaigning - hence my comment here. SchroCat, Aymmth2 contents on the page for 'Potiskum Emirate' are incorrect. Especially information from Dailytrust newspaper, Nigeria and other blogs re not good reliable sources E.g. the paragraph "in 2002 the convoy carrying politician..." should be removed for the fact that dailytrust newspaper reports were untrue: the fact that the incident happened near the Fika Emirate Palace. I may source government investigation to prove that but I think, it is irrelevant to the works of 'Potiskum Emirate'. DailyTrust paper, Nigeria esp. as I understand, are writing against the work of 'Potiskum Emirate' which is misleading. Some of the wording on the page 'ultra-modern' 'scene of gathering' are biased view and unneutral.

To shade some light to this argument, I suggesting EDjohnston compare the two pages 'Potiskum Emirate' and 'Fika Emirate' which were both accessed by Aymmth2

I believe the administrator EDJohnston should know that there is a blogging going on by an unknown persons e.g http://www.revolvy.com/main/index.php?s=Potiskum+Emirate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ga.gatto.sa (talk • contribs)

• @Ga.gatto.sa: Some comments:
  • The article avoids blogs and tries to use only reliable independent sources, giving the information from a neutral viewpoint.
  • The Daily Trust is one of the largest newspapers in northern Nigeria. The cited article appears to be neutral and factual.
  • I have removed the statement about the attack on the convoy near the palace, which is only marginally relevant and is no longer visible in the online source.
  • The Revolvy.com article is a "mirror" of the Wikipedia article. There is nothing odd about that. Revolvy.com is one of many sites that copy Wikipedia content.

I note that you have started Draft:Potiskum Emirate Council, with much the same scope as this article. This would be Wikipedia:Content forking, which is not allowed. Information on the subject that is supported by reliable independent sources should be added to this article, citing the sources. Aymatth2 (talk) 14:19, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

@ *@Aymatth2: - well done for minor collaboration, but we have more work to do :) Not to worry about the article I am writing -anyone can edit it, the contents are there for you to see and compare it with your writing here. Meaning; why do you feel you have to mention Fika political entity on a potiskum page? Is this worth mentioning? As it is irrelevant to the 'potiskum emirate'. However the political parties you stated no longer exists. APC and PDP are the current main parties in the region with APC winning state and senate votes since 1996 against the Fika Emirate preference for PDP. This alone puts the question whether the bole of Fika Emirate now have the support/control of the people of Potiskum? Speaking of which votes counts towards the bole population size...

The statement about a 'rebel leader' from Fika Emirate never existed in potiskum's history. There was however a well known 'rebel leader Mai Agudum, an Ngizim ruler in potiskum which the reference author M. Watts (2013) should be relating to. Please refer to Whiteley, G. C: "Anthropological notes on Ngizim tribe" NAK SNP 17/8.2976 1918 and Petterson, J. R: "Borno Provision, Borno Emirate Assessment Report on Bursari District" NAK SNP 17k. 2041 1918. I will assume you don't know much about the history of Potiskum struggles if you ignore the story about Mai Agudum's challenges and rebellion :O

A lot of contents on the Potiskum Emirate's page: para; 'Within Fika Emirate' - content are more relevant to the Fika Emirate's page, I also noticed that most of your references are recent publications this should raise eye brows (historical speaking) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ga.gatto.sa (talk • contribs) 04:24, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

• @Ga.gatto.sa: This is not an article about the Ngizim people or about Potiskum LGA. It is about the Potiskum Emirate, a traditional state that existed for about 100 years before being absorbed by the Fika Emirate in 1913, and that was recreated in 2000. Its history is inextricably linked to that of the Fika Emirate. Neither source for the 1915 rebellion in what was then part of the Fika Emirate names the leader. One calls him "a rebel district head from Fika emirate" and the other calls him "the ex-district head of Potiskum ... This rebel leader no doubt felt he had been wronged by being dismissed from office..." It is entirely possible that the leader was the deposed Mai Agudum, but we have to stick to what the sources say. Given the controversy about this topic, I strongly recommend using only sources that are available online, and limiting them to reputable books, journals or mainstream newspapers. Aymatth2 (talk) 15:10, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

• @Aymatth2: Please break down your statements to correspond with the points I raised above.

In addition you are agreeing that the rebel leader was Mai Agudum. I assume 'ardent historians' will highlight gross-errors of recent publications as such, rather than quoting errors as reference- I suggest you read H. R. Palmer "Sudanese Memoirs" (1928). Anyway why is H.R. Palmer's important collection of translations missing in your references? comment added by Ga.gatto.sa (talk

• @Ga.gatto.sa: H. R. Palmer's "Sudanese Memoirs" is not in the list of sources because it is not cited. The memoirs of early colonial administrators often display prejudice and ignorance, where more recent sources give a more balanced view. Thus Olive Temple's Notes on the tribes, provinces, emirates and states of the northern provinces of Nigeria (1919) says of the Keri-Keri that "each town had its own ruler until, circa 1810 A.D., Malam Zaki of Bornu conquered them. They are a pagan people ... They are heavy drinkers ... In Bauchi Province, however, they are more civilized..." This may show why the British gave the more "civilized" Bolewa control of the Keri-Keri district, but is otherwise not a great source. Aymatth2 (talk) 21:51, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

• @Aymatth2: are you saying 'drinkers' are not civilized? Beer making is a Biotechnology method (see ). The use of microorganisms to transform food is what civilized people do.

"The memoirs of early colonial administrators often display prejudice and ignorance" I disagree, especially when it comes to the works of H. R Palmer. Also suggested by other historians; I think you need to consider the context that described how events happened rather than keeping with Watts, Michael J.(2013) in your reference.

To keep with consistency, I noticed Umar Bubaram ibn Wuriwa Bawuya in your text. correct this to Umar Bubaram Ibn Wuriwa Bauya. Mai Umar Bubaram Ibn Wuriwa Bauya is a direct descendent of Mai Bauya who ruled Potiskum(Pataskum) chiefdom. comment added by Ga.gatto.sa (talk)

• I do not see the point. Modern peer-reviewed secondary sources are generally preferable to older or primary sources, and should be used where available. Michael Watts presumably is more detached than Herbert Richmond Palmer. Note the comment by Roland Oliver and Brian M. Fagan in their Africa in the Iron Age (1975): "H.R. Palmer's Bornu Sahara and Sudan (1936) is generally reckoned to be unintelligible." His translations of early Arabic documents are valuable, but not his own writings.

Is there specific information that should be added to this article, with sources? Aymatth2 (talk) 12:53, 18 January 2016 (UTC)