Talk:Popular Assembly of the Peoples of Oaxaca

Content dispute

The state government was repressive AND powerless at the same time? Quite an achievement. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.188.143.91 (talk) 16:21, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

Having spent a few days in Oaxaca just a week ago, I spoke to numerous people there -- taxi drivers, business owners, hotel workers, people on the street, the poor as well as the middle class. My observation was 9 of 10 condemned the methods of the APPO as an out-of-control group manipulated by leftist special interests. They mourned the destruction of the city's beauty, tourist industry and security. They regretted the APPO's creating an evironment of civil disobedience that has resulted in millions of dollars of damages to homes, businesses and public structures. (There is not a wall city-wide without grafitti). Neighborhood citizens' committees were forming to protect themselves from the lawlessness RESULTING from the APPO's actions. No matter how noble a "revolutionary" face is painted on this situation, all were suffering economically in one form or another from the standoff. While efforts to form a popular urising against the governer may have some basis in fact, the methods have been been a disaster for the area. Regarding the claim that community councils have an earlier cultural precident, so does the alleged stone-walling dictatorial ways of the current Governor in both Spanish and Zapotecan history going back centuries. ((CLJones ))

This article (as presented October 11, 2006) is grossly misleading. For example, there were nowhere near 70k teachers striking in the city of Oaxaca - that is the number of teachers in the whole state of Oaxaca. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.231.66.116 (talk • contribs) 04:28, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

--> the CSMonitor speaks of thousands of teachers. --> 70,000 is the number of all members of the union (porbably in the province of o) who went on strike in may. "The current crisis began last spring as a strike by Oaxaca's 70,000-member education workers union for better wages and working conditions. Such strikes have been a nearly annual ritual for years, but this one became enmeshed in Mexico's bitter presidential elections." http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4295815.html Bine maya 09:26, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

---right, there are 70,000 educational workers in Section 22 of the SNTE (the Oaxaca section of the national education union). all of these people were on strike in June, just not all were present in the capital. Most have remained in their communities throughout the struggle for a variety of reasons. Also, the quote above is a little misleading, in that it is not clear that what has been happening in Oaxaca has had much of anything to do with the national Mexican elections.--Cwhalvor 02:57, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Too, the APPO is not supported by anywhere near half the population of Oaxaca; I spent all of September traveling around the state of Oaxaca, primarily the smaller communities, and found the vast majority of Oaxacans against the APPO. After showing that they are willing to use violence (by stopping busses at random outside Oaxaca City and beating up passengers, filmed by and shown on CNN Espanol), representatives of the APPO spread out from Oaxaca City to several smaller communities throughout the state, and engaged in taking over municipal buildings with some representatives of the teachers' union. While I met many people who were in favor of booting out Ulises, I met not one Mexican person, anywhere, who was in favor of the behavior/methods of the APPO. They are seen as fascists by their "own people;" they do not enjoy any kind of popular support by Oaxacans. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.231.66.116 (talk • contribs) 04:28, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

--> from info available on the net, appo is probably not supported by the majority of the population. however, criticism of the governor and not least his handling of the situation is widespread. --> local citizens quoted in the cs monitor say that they are disturbed by the standoof and just want it to end soon, that it should not have been allowed to escalate this far. Bine maya 09:26, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

---> pro vs anti-APPO voices: http://us.oneworld.net/external/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.indymedia.org%2Fen%2F2006%2F10%2F849515.shtml however, note that those voices are not necessarily well-informed. only 2 of them claim to be based in mexico (and at least one of them is doubtful). the other, from the imc ny collective is pro-APPO based on the reports recieved first hand by the killed reporter. they don't necessarily reflect the opinion of 'the citizens.' one of the posters claims that oaxaca was democratic and peaceful before the strike, but other reports clearly contradict that:http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4295815.html Bine maya 09:26, 30 October 2006 (UTC) --> some info extracted from there: - there have been sizable demonstrations in support of the appo, but: - the situation in oaxaca has been tough since the takeover by appo- not pretty. people seem to be afraid of the appo. - appo are not opposed to using violence but unlike the police attacking them have never killed anyone . appo organizers have called for peaceful demonstrations and passive resistance in the recent street battles, but there was throwing of rocks and molotovs while police moved in with force. http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4295815.html Bine maya 09:26, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

There are plenty of street w/out graffiti, just not in the center of the city. Also, shop owners have generally taken a hit from the decline in tourism, but that does not mean they are all anti-appo. Saying this ignores how unpopular URO is with a large part of the population. Also, many people will tell you that the destruction of the city' beauty began with URO's "modernization" efforts in which he tore up the zocalo and other public spaces and paved them over with concrete. I'll have to find the source for this, but a recent survey found a majority of the population wanted to see the resignation of the governor. The marches iin favor of APPO have been much larger than anti-APPO marches, and this is with the rumors that the PRI is paying people off and threatening their jobs if they do not march in favor of URO. But i would agree that many people are ambivalent about appo and simply want to see a peaceful resolution. --Cwhalvor 02:51, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

I made some alterations, mostly minor. I stripped down the first couple paragraphs a little bit and linked to the 2006 conflict page. This page is more about the organization, rather than the conflict as a whole. I also added some more content on the APPO itself and tried to replace some of the pictures that had been taken down. If anyone finds better ones please feel free to replace mine. --Cwhalvor 04:24, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Nothing about latest developments?

I know this isn't Wikinews (where I can't get anyone to write about this either), but the Spanish-language Wikipedia has added a paragraph about this weekend's killings and other violence at the protests.

Here's the translation of the es.wikipedia.org article:

On October 27, 2006, the APPO was attacked by paramilitary forces. The American documentary journalist Bradley Roland Will was killed, along with three others, with 23 wounded. Later figures reported 20 deaths, all on the APPO side. On the morning of October 28, the Federal Police were ordered to intervene in Oaxaca. The government has ordered APPO members to turn over the Oaxacan capital, which the APPO has refused to do, calling instead for a dialogue in the government building abandoned by state governor Ulises Ruiz. In the face of the violence, the planned resumption of classes in the public schools is in danger, with classes having been suspended by the teachers for the past five months.

Now I know that Wikipedia says be bold, but my knowledge of this is soooo slight. I'd like some assistance here, as I don't want to make an article already in need of cleanup any worse. Lawikitejana 02:54, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

As this article is concenered, it is in need of a rewrite, badly cobbled together w/o good sourcing. First-hand accounts, if sufficient to give a balanced view, to be preferred, agency rewrites second. Complex picture of movement as presented in dispute is natural, as it is a nascent phenomenon a clear reaction to which has not established itself. Violence definitely not one-sided and apparently sponsored by Ruiz (who has been put on hold by Mexico DF since late Summer). FWIW, my impression is that in the areas where one gets news from, it's more or less evenly split between people who support APPO, those who oppose it, and those who are not sure what to make of it, don't like this weekend's developments, but be rather glad if Ruiz was off their collective backs and their trash got collected again every Wednesday. APPO is certainly unable ATM to make some sort of "revolution" for lack of support.

Basically, the federal gov't has agreed to institute the APPO's main petition, i.e. they have fired Ruiz. It would help the article if the ather petitons/complains by the APPO were at least circumscribed (there seem to be others) so outsiders see what matters are going at. 213.196.204.236 05:56, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

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did some hunting and found this for you. perhaps useful as background info for oct 28 occurrences : Bine maya 09:33, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

MEDIA ALERT: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Media Contact: Greg Berger Phone: 52-777-382-5620, 52-777-211-0024 , 1-646-279-3763 Email: gringoyo_2000 (AT) yahoo.com

U.S. JOURNALIST MURDERED IN OAXACA/ FEDERAL TROOPS POISED TO ENTER OAXACA CITY TONIGHT As independent journalists working in Mexico, we are outraged by the brutal murder of one of our colleagues, Brad Will, at the hands of plainclothes police officers and local government officials in the State of Oaxaca. Brad's death is now being used as a pretext by the Mexican federal government to launch a military incursion into Oaxaca City. The logic behind this police action represents a total distortion of the facts as we have been reporting and we are urging the media to more carefully scrutinize recent events. It is our hope that you, our colleagues, can help prevent bloodshed in Mexico. Yesterday, Brad was reporting from a protest encampment in Santa Lucia del Camino, Oaxaca, when it came under attack from several individuals in civilian clothing who shot pistols and high powered rifles at the protesters. Brad was filming the siege when one of the assailants fatally shot him twice in the abdomen. According to local residents and the Mexican newspaper El Universal, the attackers have been positively identified as municipal police officers and government officials of Santa Lucia del Camino. The current conflict began on June 14th when Oaxaca's governor Ulises Ruiz Ortiz sent in state police to break a teachers' strike that was camped out in the center of Oaxaca City. Gov. Ruiz had already alarmed international human rights organizations, including Amnesty International, for atrocities committed before the June 14 police violence. The actions on June 14th further ignited people’s anger throughout the State who responded, by forming the People's Popular Assembly of Oaxaca (APPO) who reinforced the teachers' encampment in Oaxaca City. The single demand of the APPO has been the resignation of Gov. Ruiz. In the last five months, at least 12 people have been killed by police and paramilitary forces connected to Gov. Ruiz. Major media outlets, worldwide, have erroneously implied that teachers and members of the APPO are to blame for the violence, including the death of Brad Will. Repeated calls on Mexican television for the restoration of "law and order" are disturbing because they fail to recognize that the recent spate of targeted killings have been traced to the State government, and that the fundamental necessity to restoring peace in the state is the immediate removal of Gov. Ruiz. This is a conclusion that we, as journalists, have reached after studying the facts carefully. A siege of the city is expected to begin tonight. Most observers agree that it will be impossible to dislodge the protesters without bloodshed. We are calling on all responsible journalists to cover this impending crisis, and help to shed light on the facts before more innocent lives are lost.

There is already some stuff on that on scattered other pages. Try 2006 Oaxaca protests, William Bradley Roland and Independent Media Center. Feel free to add it here too. Ungovernable Force^{Got something to say?} 10:51, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

2006 Oaxaca protests should definitely be featured in the article, as it is not disputed. It is developing quite well it seems, one of the best and balanced sources around for a quick lookup. Should be due for much add info, currently is only concerned with the spikes of a simmeriing conflict. 213.196.204.236 05:56, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

i'd like to delete the entire recent development section on this page. the content of that section is either not recent or not noteworthy. i'll delete in a few days if there are no objections. --Cwhalvor 02:57, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Criticism

The whole criticism section, as of August 2007 has zero references, even though it includes highly controversial material. Furthermore, the last paragraph currently links the APPO to "leaders of Lopez Obrador's PRD party", instead of just "leaders of the PRD party", even though Lopez Obrador has no official status other than being sympathetic towards the APPO. Please cite a neutral source for any of this information, either in English or Spanish. Lui1014 22:34, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

I had restored the criticism section of the article, but was again removed becuse of non-english sources. Is there a way to keep it even though there is not an english reference? I believe that it's important to provide this information, given the source exists. makeyourself 01:36, 6 November 2006 (UTC) Is that a Wiki requirement, i.e. the English-language references? Because in academic work cites to works in other languages are quite common - German, Latin, Greek, Russian, French, Italian and so on, depending on the field.Skookum1 04:54, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Hi, I wrote the criticism section, It's very difficult to get sources in english because the first one, make a reference to the name of the organization and I wanted to show that there are other organization that keep calling the movment "Asamblea Popular del Pueblo de Oaxaca" and these organization don't publish anything in english. The second one is when a group of bussines man try to make a protest against the APPO, and they recive deaht threads if they participate in this protest, I had 2 sources one is the youtube video wicht is a paint outside of a store that is in spanish, the people from the APPO are not going to paint the walls in english of course!!, and the second one is a note from a local newspaper in Puebla but the link has been removed and anyway is in spanish! The 3rd one is about the mexican labor law, that's not going to be in english of course, I haven't find it!!

I think that this section is very important, if someone can help me to find more sources in english I will really apreciate!! --Pacoworld 17:45, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

I saw that someone made edits to the criticism section, and that you restored the paragraph on the name. You could have restored the version that I edited for grammar. I think right now that paragraph is meaningless to an english speaking audience. Could you at least explain why the criticism about the name is relevant and important enough to be the first paragraph of this section?--Cwhalvor 20:12, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

I deleted the paragraph about the name because 1) just because some people mess up the name, that doesn't make it criticism, and 2) as I said when i just got rid of it again, the explanation given isn't the case. "Popular" is referring to the "asamblea". It's a "popular assembly", una "asamblea popular". I also when through before and tried to remove the bias from the section. And as a side note, yeah, a lot of people don't like APPO. But a lot of people also don't like the governor. I was at the attack that killed Brad Will. The people who rushed the armed Priistas to push them out of the neighborhood were not pro-APPO necessarily, but they were all anti-PRI thugs. --eternalcowboy22 20:34, 17 November 2006 (EST)

I agree with your move, but don't be surprised if someone adds the paragraph again. It's been added and deleted several times now.--Cwhalvor 08:35, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

I agree with letting non english sources in, most of the information will be in spanish. The Oaxaca problem is very complex even for most Mexican Political Analyst, but it is clear that the heroes are neither the APPO or the Government. The APPO has been just as irresponsible and problematic to the people of the state, just as the useless governor and the PRI. the citizens of the city have been forced to help APPO members and even have to ask permision to move around the city, something that has changed thanks to the PFP in the city, even though they are simply there to make sure people can at least move around safely around the city, and are not there to restore the governor. (in fact, federal officials have launched an ultimatum to the governor, either negotiate or renounce to his post). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 201.160.138.114 (talk • contribs) 09:18, November 10, 2006 (UTC)

I edited the crit. section for grammar, but overall the page is pretty poor. This page seems to have very little about APPO, and much of the information in the criticism section should actually be in a general information section. There are also some claims that need to be sourced, either english or spanish, but even this won't really be adequate. There is a lot of blatantly false information about appo, both in oaxaca and internationally, and even getting some news sources isn't necessarily accurate. I will try to do some rewrites here to make this all a little more coherent. --cwhalvor 15:14, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

A lot of wikipedia articles cite sources in foreign languages, including spanish. This should be no exception. Hari Seldon 04:15, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Commons

Hi,

I just added this category in Commons to enable an upload of the three current pics (and others, if any).

You're welcome there,

[ (fr) : 86.208.180.81 14:14, 19 December 2006 (UTC) ]

Radio APPO

Hello, It's a shame Radio APPO isn't mentionned in this article. This radio has an important role to spread the information of the APPO from the beginning of the conflict. If somebody who writes english properly feel like doing it... May be we could create the article radio APPO...

Bye! Ajor 18:48, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Featured Article

Congratulations! APPO is currently the featured article for the Anarchism Portal.

Marc Mywords 09:18, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Weird! The APPO's leaders are linked to the PRD (verifiable fact, see El Universal, Reforma), and have no interest in anarchism... They have an interest in getting the PRD to power, but not in dissolving all power all together. I don't see this as Anarchism material, and quite frankly, the quality of the article is way too low for it to be "featured"... Hari Seldon 14:53, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

WP:Terrorist & WP:NPOV

Is there some reason why uncited material about "thugs and terrorists" seems to be appropriate for this article? An IP has been adding it back in, without comment or discussion. --nsaum75^{¡שיחת!‎} 15:33, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Loaded and biased terms like 'APPO thugs', 'APPO criminals' etc. which are repeated throughout the article need to be changed to something more neutral like 'APPO members'. In fact the whole slant of this article is blatantly anti-APPO and way off the kind of standards of objectivity that wikipedia should aspire to. Can anyone fix this?? 187.132.75.42 (talk) 03:30, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

THE PERSON WHO WROTE THIS IS SO MISINFORMED ABOUT WHAT IS REALLY GOING ON --- ITS OBSCENE!

• • • • • • • • • • • • PLEASE REMOVE THIS MIS-INFORMATION ******************

IT IS AN INJUSTICE TO PEOPLE WHO HAVE ALREADY SUFFERED ENOUGH

RUIZ AFUREA DE OAXACA!!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Armandobarbosa2000 (talk • contribs) 08:58, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

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This page needs to be protected - references to APPO 'thugs' and 'criminals' should be removed and are unforgivable in an encyclopaedia that strives towards neutrality and objectivity.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 187.132.129.135 (talk) 14:55, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

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Whoever keeps on reverting the edit to a disgracefully biased and subjective anti-APPO piece should dump their grievances on some political rant blog somewhere. Wikipedia clearly isn't the place for this kind of ideological warfare, whatever the politics. It's still not a great article but the effort that has been made to bring it up to basic standards of objectivity is getting ruined by this boring, repetitive vandal. And whoever's doing it can't even manage to dump on APPO in correct English. 187.132.126.51 (talk) 05:34, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

Its been stable since the article was protected, however why don't you create a user account and help us make it more neutral and balanced. --nsaum75^{¡שיחת!‎} 07:44, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

removing POV tag with no active discussion per Template:POV

I've removed an old neutrality tag from this page that appears to have no active discussion per the instructions at Template:POV:

This template is not meant to be a permanent resident on any article. Remove this template whenever:

1. There is consensus on the talkpage or the NPOV Noticeboard that the issue has been resolved
2. It is not clear what the neutrality issue is, and no satisfactory explanation has been given
3. In the absence of any discussion, or if the discussion has become dormant.

Since there's no evidence of ongoing discussion, I'm removing the tag for now. If discussion is continuing and I've failed to see it, however, please feel free to restore the template and continue to address the issues. Thanks to everybody working on this one! -- Khazar2 (talk) 18:55, 29 June 2013 (UTC)