Talk:Pomegranate/Archive 1

Archive 1

Untitled

"The entire seed is consumed raw, though the watery, tasty aril is the desired part"

"Tasty" is subjective. Suggest removal? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.105.196.53 (talk) 21:42, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Good for semen

Can someone please add that this plant is good for semen. source: http://www.dr.dk/Regioner/Aarhus/Nyheder/Horsens/2010/06/23/062240.htm

If you don't understand Danish you can translate the article with google translate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.99.30.61 (talk) 15:50, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

Ripeness?

I just want to know how to tell if this fruit is ripe, without opening it up. Please help!

Kite Runner

As far as symbolism goes, Khaled Hosseini has a lot of symbolism in the Kite Runner that uses the pomegranate. When Afghanistan goes to turmoil in the 80's, their family's tree dies.thedrtaylor 05:26, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Labeling Picture "Pomegranate Arils"

Altogether a minor edit, but the picture isn't really of pomegranate seeds as the seeds are still encased - it's of arils. Just renaming. -206.107.108.225 18:39, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Please add HARDY Varieties

Hi. I'm hoping that someone (more knowledgable than I) might add a section on Hardier varieties of pomegranates (such as Punica granatum 'State Fair' (Hardy Dwarf Pomegranate)from this nursery website: https://www.plantdelights.com/Catalog/Current/Detail/01730.html). I like growing hardy palms and hardy citrus in Cincinnati, OHIO (USDA climate zone 6-7) and think that this would be a pretty neat addition to the garden (they have two outside hardy specimens growing outside year-round at the Krohn Conservatory in Cincinnati). Thank you in advance for any info you might be able to provide by adding a hardy variety section.

Lythraceae or Punicaceae

Dear Author of the article on Pomegranate

The Wikipedia article on Punica granatum mentions recent evidence due to which Punica granatum has been reverted to Lythraceae from its original family Punicaceae. It will help if this recent evidence could beeither cited or a specific reference or authority for the same is also given. To my understanding, Punicaceae family has been a long recognized taxonomic entity with aspecial status that it is a monogeneric family in having just a single Genus, Punica.

I am interested in pomegranates as a subject of study for biodiversity and biosystematics aspects, and I will greatly appreciate any inputs on these aspects of pomegranates. Hence this query as above about reference for the "genetic evidence" that was mentioned.

Shirish A. Ranade, Scientist, NBRI, Lucknow 226001. India (E-mail: removed) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 194.94.136.34 (talk • contribs) 09:09, 28 July 2005 (UTC)

I've added some referenced material to articles Punica and Lythraceae. I think the references discuss the specific evidence used. Melchoir 19:26, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

chinese apple?

Dont some people refer to this fruit as a chinese apple? I know arizona sells pomegranate tea and under pomegranate it says "chinese apple" —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Krappie (talk • contribs) 08:42, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

Yep, my Italian side of the family in Brooklyn all calls them chinese apples too. They have no idea why. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.43.32.86 (talk • contribs) 13:32, 7 October 2005

I have heard them refered to as persian apples also. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.83.48.21 (talk • contribs) 02:09, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

I just bought a pomegranate in a store and they were labeled as "Asian Apple Pears." Strange. This is in California.

Granada

I'm a bit doubtful of the assertion that Granada was named after the fruit. Pomegranates are called "Rumman" in Arabic. If it was named after the fruit, it would be called Rummana not Ghurnata (Granada's arabic name). HiJazzey 11:17, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

Well, "granada" is the word for pomegranate in Spanish. Maybe that should be clarified in the article. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 12.217.230.106 (talk • contribs) 16:40, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

Granada is the name of the fruit in Spanish and the pomegranate is on the heraldic shield of the city according to the Granada article in the Wikipedia. But the name of the city in Arabic given there is (Arabic غرناطة Ġarnāṭah). I think the belief that the city comes from the name of the fruit is probably a Folk etymology. Curiously, there is one for another city in Spain, Leon, which is commonly believed to come from the identical Spanish word for Lion, but in fact comes from Legionis, or legion, as in Roman legion. If I was 100% sure, I'd edit it out myself, but if someone has a source for the Arabic name, please do so. I suspect it's probably in Corominas Spanish etymological dictionary, but I can't be sure, and don't have access to it at the moment. mnewmanqc —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mnewmanqc (talk • contribs) 16:59, 18 September 2005

The article is ambiguous right now regarding this

First we have: This is a folk etymology, confusing Latin granatus with the name of the Spanish city of Granada, which derives from Arabic.

And a couple of lines below we have: The ancient city of Granada in Spain was renamed after the fruit during the Moorish period

Please decide which one and correct the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.82.204.193 (talk) 01:20, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

Hand grenade

I do not know if this is relevant, but the hebrew word for pomegranate, pronounced Ree-Moan (emphasis on the moan) also means grenade. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.106.110.148 (talk • contribs) 04:15, 20 September 2005

This is due to the appearance of very old hand thrown bombs, shaped like a sphere, with a little cylindrical nubbin for the fuse. The are shaped like pomengranates. Think of the iconic cartoon bomb. It wasn't until the Mills grenade that they were called pineapples. 69.221.228.176 (talk) 03:56, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Also I understand this is the derivation of the word "grenade" in english - the grenade looked like a granada/grenadine. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.107.71.242 (talk) 12:46, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

Also relevant it is the same for spanish (granada both the fruit and the weapon). I think it is because of the shape and cluster of fragments. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.82.204.193 (talk) 01:17, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

Roma?

"In Portuguese, its name is romã, from Latin (mala) romana, meaning roman (apple)." Arabic rummân sounds like a far more plausible source. Anyone have a reliable Portuguese etymological dictionary? - Mustafaa 17:29, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

I would suggest linking this article to the Portuguese version: http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rom%C3%A3 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.37.142.56 (talk) 22:28, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

The Romans called it Punicum malum, i.e., Carthaginian apple, because they received it from Carthage.

Folk Etymology

The derivation of "pommie" from "pomegranate" is Folk etymology. The OED has "pommie" as "derivation unknown". Mikeplokta 18:58, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

deciduous/delicious

while the pomegranate may be delicious, the word at the beginning of the article was deciduous. this was not a typo.--Alhutch 15:29, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

Recent changes to 'Greek Mythology' Section

This is my first edit to a Wikipedia entry and since I really don't want to step on anybody's toes, here's what revisions I've made and my reasoning behind them.

Removed comment about the Isis/Osiris myth. No relationship to pomegranates shown

Removed statement about Mycenaean goddess and her relationship to the Persephone myth because statement is too subjective; should be cited

Removed Redundancy about the origins and cultivation of pomegranates and unrelated statement about Ishtar/Cybele

Fixed improper capitalization of the word ‘goddess’

Rearranged a few sentences to keep information about different myths together

Used this quote “In her hand she may bear the pomegranate, emblem of fertile blood and death and a substitute for the narcotic capsule of the opium poppy (Ruck and Staples 1994).” From the Hera entry to replace “According to mythographers Carl A.P. Ruck and Danny Staples, the chambered pomegranate is also a surrogate for the poppy's narcotic capsule, with its comparable shape and chambered interior.”

Removed a few "peacock terms"

Moved comment about Mary out of the ‘Greek Mythology’ section

Removed statements about “Mother Goddess” and “Triple Goddess” as they appear to reference the neo-pagan concept of Deity and not any particular Greek myth including pomegranates

Overall, attempted to give the section a more appropriate tone for an encyclopedia. I felt that the orginal text had too much bias and too much information that should have been either removed or cited. (Anonymously contributed, 02:27, 13 November 2005, by User:24.247.68.200.)

It's still a bit muddled. I espedially don't understand this sentence:

Indeed, in the Orion story we hear that Hera cast pomegranate-Side into dim Erebus — "for daring to rival Hera's beauty", which forms the probable point of connection with the older Osiris/Isis story.

"cast pomegranate-Side into" should that be "pomegranate seed"? MKV 02:23, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

"The Titan Orion was represented as "marrying" Side, a name that in Boeotia means "pomegranate", thus consecrating the primal hunter to the Goddess." That sentence comes earlier in the paragraph. The "probable point of connection with the older Osiris/Isis story" is simply a bridge to text that immediately follows. --Wetman 07:40, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Edits

• Pomegranate is a shrub, not a species of shrub. The species is Punica.
• Removed "

The fruit is typically in season from September to November in the Northern Hemisphere, or March to May in the Southern Hemisphere." Pointless local boosterism, unless some factual statement can be offered.

• etymology: pomum + granatum = "seed-apple" not "grainy". I also shifted a sentence for continuity of thought.
• In China: added possibility of the Silk Road; dropped unnecessary "assuming the pomegranate was not native to the Pacific coast"
• So America: whyu the missionaries particularly? "during the 1700-1800's" is oddly late (a random guess?)
• " As far as pomegranate extracts go, however, it may be advisable to stick with ingredients standardized to native constituents, as these are absorbed into the body, and have benefits backed by clinical research." Removed: Wikipedia does not give medical advice.
• Symbolism: I have eliminated the introduced sub-sections artificially dividing Hebrew and Greek
• Persephone: the "six months" are a deeply founded error, but apparently they can't be stopped. The Greek year was divided in three seasons. Oh well....

The rest are Englishing and requests for sources. --Wetman 02:07, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Other mythology

This is a total cop-out on my part, but I would recommend including more on the pomegranate in Persian and Indian culture and mythology/symbolism/religion (as opposed to the presently unbalanced examples from the occidental traditions). I know I've come across the pomegranate many, many times but have nothing to cite at this moment off the top of my head. Just a suggestion if anyone's interested (and if not I hope I remember this article the next time I come across a specific verse of scripture, etc.). One thing I can direct the reader's kindly attention to, is the Pakistani version of the ill-fated lovers (e.g. Romeo and Juliette, Tristan and Iseult, Layla wa Majnun, etc.): the legend of Anarkali. Khirad 23:45, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Sounds good idea to me. The "Pomegranates and symbolism" is a good section but it is very heavily weighted towards the Ancient Greeks. Nunquam Dormio 09:25, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

One-sided articles are always improved with additions. But the subject is pomegranate,. --Wetman 08:56, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Estrogen?

The pomegranate seeds are reputed to be high in estrone content (see the Greenbush page/http://www.greenbush.net/morthanyouev.html). I have not been able to confirm that claim. Any input? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 4.228.228.134 (talk • contribs) 05:47, 19 November 2004 (UTC)

I saw a post somewhere that said pomogranate was high in plant estrogens. Anyone know anything about this? --Gbleem 19:17, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Sure. Phytoestrogens, not estrone. See PMID 14732284. Multiple references on PubMed at http://www.nlm.nig.gov Just search on "phytoestrogen" and "punica". Pustelnik (talk) 04:03, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Cancer citation

The citations for #5 on references should be changed to the actual scientific studies, and not the media reports on those studies. thanks

I've separated and improved these refs: they're now #5 and #6. Haven't got the time to follow to the source. Nunquam Dormio 08:55, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Mistaken Revert

Whoops, reverted the wrong way, somehow got my diffs messed up. Thanks to the person who fixed my mistaken fix :). MKV 01:00, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

number of seeds Persephone ate...

I always thought that Persephone ate SEVEN pomegranate seeds... The association between 6 seeds and 6 months seems to be an ethnic myth. Greek growing seasons are not the same as nothern Europe. High summer is seens as a dead season where nothing grows. This was when Persephone spent her time with Pluton in Hades.

But my copy of the story is 6!thedrtaylor 05:24, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Question about symbolism

I read on the Italian wiki at http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madonna_del_parto_(Piero_della_Francesca) (sorry, in Italian only, there's no cross-link...) that the pomegranate is also a symbol for the Passion of Christ. Can anyone confirm? If so, can anyone update the section? I'm no native English-speaker...

Probably would have some connection to communion I would imagine, but that's speculation on my part... hopefully someone else can add to this if necessary66.56.204.246 (talk) 07:48, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Pomegranate Juice May Clear Clogged Arteries

http://www.webmd.com/content/article/102/106690.htm Crocoite 22:40, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Tree

Anyone else having trouble seeing the picture of the pomegranate tree in the cultivation section? No matter what I do I can't seem to view it, even out of the Pomegranate page. WLU 17:33, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Categories

In my opinion, some of the following categories recently added are a bit much - the article is about pomegranates in general, not specifically their use in religious services. I'd like others opinions on the following:

• Category:Christian liturgy, rites, and worship services remove
• Category:Eastern Orthodoxy remove
• Category:Death customs remove

• Category:Religious objects keep

What do others think? All this aside, I can't say I'm familiar enough with categories yet to be 100% certain. WLU 16:30, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Dispersers?

There's no mention of how Pomegranate fruits are dispersed. Anyone? — Aldaron • T/C 02:59, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

GA status

This a well-written, comprehensive article, but it does not appear to have undergone the good article nomination process. I've provisionally downgraded it to B class, as there are some problems with sourcing in the "Pomegranates and symbolism" and "Other" sections. Please feel free to nominate the article for GA or revert my downgrade if the article has in fact previously passed through the GA nomination process and been promoted. --Muchness (talk) 10:55, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

pomegrenate juice and staining?

I saw an anonymous editor removed the claim about pomegrenate juice and staining of clothes from the article. Pomegranate juice stains clothing permanently unless it is washed out immediately with water — only bleach can remove stains. Does anyone know whether this is true? Sources? Martijn Faassen (talk) 12:05, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

It's a minor matter really as there are many fruits -- dark berries, for example -- that leave a stubborn stain on skin and white clothing. I bought a pomegranate, opened and counted its arils and kept them as a snack over a few days just to experiment and have the experience of pomegranate's unusual morphology as a food -- you go to all that bother just to get a one-by-one experience with a juicy aril surrounding a quite uninteresting chewy seed. Conclusion: the only thing of interest are the arils/seeds which inevitably stain skin. Because the arils are slippery and somewhat awkward, they may get on clothing and, in my case, left a stain that eventually was unnoticeable. Frankly, it's not worth the effort of dissecting a whole pomegranate, so I won't be doing it again unless to educate a grandchild. Thanks to the juice makers who make the pomegranate experience simple! --Paul144 (talk) 15:50, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

We're getting a bit off-topic, but personally I quite enjoy the pomegranate experience myself, even though it's indeed a lot of trouble. The juice is nice but isn't quite the same thing. Martijn Faassen (talk) 00:24, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Mentioning something important?

I'm new at this, but can someone read this article and add some of the information from it to the wikipedia article on pomegranates?--75.195.230.221 (talk) 01:07, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

That has to do more with marketing and how pomegranate is basically a fad to some people. While the article you posted makes its point with the marketing craze, I dont think it has much substance for the wikipedia article. Every month there is a new health food, trend, superfruit, etc... pomegranate just happened to fall under the spotlight for a few months Aquamelli (talk) 16:56, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Pomegranate medical benefits

Hi, Does anyone know the medically important differences between white/yellow pomegranate and red pomegranate? For example, sugar content or any other aspect between the two varieties. Thanks in advance. If I could be emailed any responses to rakesh003@sympatico.ca I'd appreciate it, Thanks in advance, Rakesh164.100.11.22 (talk) 11:56, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

Potential Bias in Judaism section, rewording needed

In this section, it says that pomegranates are important fruits because they are said to contain 613 seeds. Then, the article immediately says that the number of seeds actually varies. This is kind of a difficult situation--because the number of seeds obviously DOES vary... the way it is worded, however, almost makes it sound like a jab or scoff at this cultural view of the pomegranate. Maybe try to say "according to x Jewish document, pomegranates contain 613 seeds." "on the other hand, x scientific study claims that the number of seeds varies." Try to stick to the facts and word things like this delicately to maintain NPOV. Use the verb "claims" istead of "proves." Attribute everything.--Jp07 (talk) 05:34, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Clinical trials

Metabolites of pomegranate juice ellagitannins localize specifically in the prostate gland, colon, and intestinal tissues of mice,[32] leading to clinical studies of pomegranate juice or fruit extracts for efficacy against several diseases. In 2008, 17 clinical trials were underway to examine the effects of pomegranate juice consumption on diseases shown below[33] * rhinovirus infection (completed, July 2008) * common cold (completed, June, 2007) * coronary artery disease (completed, September, 2005)

Is it possible we could summarize the findings rather than just rattle off a laundry list of what research has been done? Many of us don't have access to the full range of medical journals where the findings have been published. -Rolypolyman (talk) 16:17, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

Natural Consumers of Pomegranates

Which animals/birds naturally consume pomegranates? What possible evolutionary adaptations have been made by the tree or the animals?

Ayurvedic usage and origins

A new section was added on Ayurvedic usage. It is completely supported with references. If a plant material is used, say, in the Amazon for nosebleed and there are refs for it, it is fine to state it. It doesn't violate WP:NOR. Note that no statement is made that this actually works, just that a particular tradition employs it for something. Zefr deleted it for some reason best known to herself/himself without any explanation except to call it "baloney". Not a compelling argument. I've restored it. Zefr, please present your case for why this material should be deleted over here before deleting again. Thanks. --Hunnjazal (talk) 03:58, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Fruit or shrub/tree?

I find the lack of distinction between the tree and its fruit surprising and confusing. Sometimes "pomegranate" seems to refer to the tree, sometimes to the fruit, and it is left to the reader to guess which. Only rarely are the clarifying terms "pomegranate tree" and "pomegranate fruit" used. I checked the entry for "apple" and found that it contains the same confusion of terminology, although to a much lesser degree (interestingly, that article defines apple as a fruit, whereas this article defines pomegranate as a tree). Is this really best practice among botanists? And even if it is, shouldn't an encyclopedic text clarify such ambiguities for the sake of its readers? --Yawe (talk) 22:14, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

Nutritional Info issue

The article gives the Vitamin C content of 100g of pomegranate at 6.1mg, 10% RDI, while on the USDA page

http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/cgi-bin/list_nut_edit.pl

It is given as 10.2mg (over 30% RDI). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.139.112.47 (talk) 10:31, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

I looked up the USDA nutrient tables which show "pomegranate juice, bottled", as having 0.1 mg of vitamin C per 100 g. For the USDA listing of one cup (249 g), the vitamin C value is 0.2 mg. It's difficult to make a judgment about what was sampled: pure 100% undiluted juice or commercial juice which is likely diluted?

If one goes to the website of Pom Wonderful, arguably the most successful commercial juice, a check of the Nutrition Facts for their product listed as 100% pure juice shows there is 0% vitamin C in this product.[1]

There appears to be no validation of the article's table value showing 6.1 mg (or 10% of DV) of vitamin C per 100 g serving. We should correct this if further discussion here doesn't validate the original table entry. --Zefr (talk) 11:23, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Revisions to the article's nutrient table were made using the USDA Nutrient Database for 100 g of raw arils, the edible portion of pomegranate including the seed and aril juice. As indicated in my comment above, one could also choose the USDA nutrient data for "pomegranate juice, bottled" which excludes the nutritional value of the seed. The whole aril, seed and juice, is more pertinent to the article.--Zefr (talk) 10:41, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

I have a question about the nutritional information. In the section Nutrients and phytochemicals, the article states that "Pomegranate aril juice provides about 16% of an adult's daily vitamin C requirement per 100 ml serving, and is a good source of vitamin B5 (pantothenic acid), potassium and polyphenols, such as tannins and flavonoids." Can anyone verify the 16%? Someone tried to change this data earlier, and I reverted the edit, but I am curious to try to find this data in the two sources provided. Where does the 16% come from? The link provided as reference shows 1 pomegranate (4" in diameter) giving 48% of the daily Vitamin C requirement, based on a 2,000 caloric diet. CreativeSoul7981 (talk) 21:27, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

Opening paragraph - delicious?

Is there a reason why the word delicious is linked to a disambiguation page for the word "delicious?" Also, I love Pomegranates, being Persian, but why is the word delicious used? Is it okay for this article, or do some of you consider it subjective. I'm sure there are some people who don't like the fruit. Any thoughts? CreativeSoul7981 (talk) 02:29, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Vandalism which has now been fixed. VMS Mosaic (talk) 04:47, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for clearing that up. CreativeSoul7981 (talk) 14:59, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

pomegrande

can this fruit be grown in the piedmont of North Carolina? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.74.81.2 (talk) 17:57, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Permanganate?

I'm not sure if the "not to be confused with permanganate" really should be on this page. Pomegranate and permanganate don't seem much alike. It seems like user 116.14.140.189 went through and added this to several pages. Unfortunately, I can't even tell if this is supposed to be vandalism. Should I remove it? Draksis (talk) 23:53, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

Done by DrKiernan. Thanks! ~ Draksis314 20:47, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

Recent changes

I have removed unsourced information and also removed the following sentences: "In Armenia, Azerbaijan and Georgia, there are wild pomegranate groves outside of ancient abandoned settlements. The cultivation of the pomegranate has a long history in Transcaucasia, where decayed remains of pomegranates dating back to 1000 BC have been found. The Kur-Araz lowland is the largest area in this region where pomegranate is cultivated." The only information I could find about Transcaucasia and pomegranates comes from this 1891 book. On page 91, it says, "In the flowering season the pomegranate groves give to this region the aspect of a vast garden..." That is the place where the author mentions Transcaucasia and pomegranates. The sentence on the Kur-Araz lowland is also copied word for word, but I will rephrase it and add it back once I pin down the source.

I also replaced the country of Georgia with Russia, because that is what the source says. If any reliable sources (books on history, plants, research, etc.) support the information I removed, then the information can be added back. The Armenia section which included information about pomegranates grown in Armenia, and Armenians using a Persian dish, has been removed because it is backed by a recipe from the Sadaf.com website here. While there is nothing wrong with links to recipes, this is not considered a valid source for the material provided. I edited the culinary section, and will try to find another source on the history of Persian dishes. I added a source (book) that discusses the importance of pomegranate soup in Persian culture and the most famous dish, "fesenjan" (spelled "fesenjun" in the book - there are various spellings, and commonly referred to as "fesenjoon"). I moved the links to the recipes for Pomegranate Stew recipe and Pomegranate Soup to the External Links section.

Information in the "Other" section needs to be verified. I will try to do that over the holidays. I will leave that information for now. I am also working on adding back the information about 760 Iranian pomegranate genotypes (not originally added by me), but I am rephrasing the wording and providing the appropriate reference. If anyone would like to help me, please let me know. Thanks. CreativeSoul7981 (talk) 22:02, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

"The entire seed is consumed raw, though the watery, tasty aril is the desired part"

"Tasty" is subjective. Suggest removal? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.105.196.53 (talk) 21:42, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Good point. Will take a look. Casliber (talk · contribs) 00:27, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

FWIW...

I rerated this article as a C - needs quite alot of refs, and there is some reduplication of text and text in odd places (e.g. hebrew stuff in ancient greek section etc.). And rejigging of laundry list at end. Casliber (talk · contribs) 00:27, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

I've been cleaning up the health section. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 01:06, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

Not inspired to nip on down to the supermarket and drink some pomegranite juice? They promote it in ours down under....my new house has a pomegranite tree in the garden...just wish it wasn't such a goddamn chore eating the things :P Casliber (talk · contribs) 02:23, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

Armenia & Syria

Please STOP adding Armenia and Syria to the article as these countries are NOT specified by reliable sources. If there are reliable sources that include these countries, then please discuss them here on this article's talk page. Countries added to the article without references will be removed immediately. Thank you. CreativeSoul7981 (talk) 22:16, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

As far as countries go, should Burma be changed to Myanmar? for the sake of politically correctness? NOTE: will go through with update if I don't get a response for a week

It has been cultivated in the Caucasus since ancient times, and today, is widely cultivated throughout Iran, Azerbaijan, Afghanistan, India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Iraq, Egypt, China, Burma, Saudi Arabia, Israel, the drier parts of southeast Asia, the Mediterranean region of Southern Europe, and tropical Africa.

It has been cultivated in the Caucasus since ancient times, and today, is widely cultivated throughout Iran, Azerbaijan, Afghanistan, India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Iraq, Egypt, China, Myanmar, Saudi Arabia, Israel, the drier parts of southeast Asia, the Mediterranean region of Southern Europe, and tropical Africa. Hewhoamareismyself (talk) 20:21, 7 May 2011 (UTC)

Hello. Thanks for responding. Since there is an article on Wikipedia for Burma, would it be better to put "officially the Republic of the Union of Myanmar" in parenthesis instead after "Burma" in this article? What do administrators think? The sources say "Burma." CreativeSoul7981 (talk) 23:38, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for responding to my response, I will still wait the extra couple days I said before in case someone tells me otherwise. hewhoamareismyself 23:16, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

Urdu proverb referring to pomegranate

While working in Pakistan some years back I heard the phrase, "eik anar, so bimar" (one pomegranate, one hundred sick [people]). It appears to refer to inadequacy, a feeling not uncommon amongst workers in NGOs, where the needs massively outweigh the resources. ایک انار، سو بیمار एक अनार, सौ बीमार (Urdu and Hindi respectively.)

I have found other references to this saying, including one on Edufire, but that domain is blacklisted on Wikipedia. Axtens (talk) 00:55, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

Pomegranate native to Iran and Himalayas in Northern India and Pakistan

Please stop changing Northern India to India. The sources specify that the pomegranate is native to the Iranian plateau and Himalayas only, and specify "Northern India." These regions are where the pomegranate originates, not where the seeds have been taken and cultivated. CreativeSoul7981 (talk) 19:29, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

Edible Fruit

"The entire seed is consumed raw, though the watery, tasty aril is the desired part. "

Based on the photo of arils, I think this sentence is backwards. Would it be clearer to say: "The entire aril is consumed raw. The watery, flavorful fruity red cover is the desired part."

Speaking personally, I'm tempted to add: "The seed is also eaten, mainly because it is far easier to eat the whole aril than to separate fruit from seed." Is there any other good reason for eating the seeds? E.g., high in calcium, provide good quality fibre, people enjoy crunching on the seeds, ...?

Thanks, CBHA (talk) 15:48, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

Pips?

I wanted to know about pomegranate pips. The article mentions arils, but no pips. Pomegranates seem to have them. ChangMei (talk) 00:17, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

"Further reading" and reviews

I have tried to add two peer-reviewed articles (on possible health benefits) to the ‘further reading’ – section, but with little success. These review articles on the Pomegranate have been written by respected researchers, and they have been published in reputed academic journals. The articles are up-to-date and reflect the latest research.

Now I am curious to know (among those who have contributed to the Wikipedia entry on the Pomegranate, and among those who have an interest in the Pomegranate) if you find these reviews an asset and a welcome addition to the “further reading” – section?

I would like to explain why I have chosen to include these academic reviews in the “further reading” – section: During the last 10 years scientific studies on the Pomegranate in relation to potential health gains have increased considerable. The Pomegranate has become one of the most well-researched fruits in the world (with 564 research papers listed on PubMed). In a clinical context the results are preliminary and limited, but these clinical results are at same time remarkable and encouraging (cancer, cardiovascular, inflammation, diabetes, erectile dysfunction, skin health, rheumatoid arthritis + other conditions).

As far as I can understand, both WP:LAY (“Manual of Style/Layout” ) and WP:MEDRS (“Identifying reliable sources (medicine)” are not in conflict with the addition of these reviews (rather the contrary).

The reviews cannot be said to be in conflict with WP:NPOV (“Neutral point of view” ). It is hard to find a review that is totally neutral, and it must be wrong to demand from the author(s) of a scientific paper (or a review) that their conclusions must be “neutral”, when these conclusions has been finalized on the basis of credible scientific, empirical and clinical evidence.

As of today, the Wikipedia article on the Pomegranate (with all due respect to its many contributors) unfortunately does not reflect this new research. I think this is where the shoe pinches. The “Clinical trial rationale and activity” – section only mentions that clinical trials are ongoing or completed (and for which diseases), and nothing more. The “Potential health benefits” – section is meager since it stops roughly around 2004, and the lion’s share of the studies (preclinical and clinical) have been published after that time.

It is my contention that the Pomegranate on Wikipedia deserves a few open access reviews in the “further reading”-section – at least until the “Potential health benefits” – section is improved and brought up-to-date. Interested readers should be given the opportunity to know more about the scientific studies on the Pomegranate (or at least to be allowed to be aware of their existence), especially since these studies might affect the individual’s health directly. Encouraging clinical (human) confirmation of preclinical findings (cell culture and animal studies) are increasing.

What is your opinion on this issue? I hope we can have a fruitful discussion, and I would appreciate hearing about what you think.

In the meantime, I have added the two reviews in question to the “further reading” - list (for everyone to see, read and evaluate), in the hope that they will be removed only by the force of the better argument and fair agreement. Granateple (talk) 21:21, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

Granateple: although I appreciate the effort you are making to provide further reading to this and several other articles I follow, I am finding your choices a) are often redundant to literature used as citations in the article and b) do not give a balanced perspective, i.e., they support the belief only of positive health benefits when no such effects have been adequately confirmed by significant scientific agreement and totality of evidence -- the requirements of leading scientific organizations like the Institute of Medicine and regulatory agencies like EFSA and the FDA.

In other words, the literature you are highlighting as additional reading populates and biases the background material for the typical Wikipedia user. Many articles are sufficiently cited to provide the deeper background if desired by a reader without use of Further Reading.

Regarding WP:SYN, if the pro and con arguments in the literature are presented, particularly for pomegranate juice which has been highly controversial and is even in a federal lawsuit at present (ref. 52), the article becomes weighted down by the different positions. The debate can be gleaned from the article now, but it remains an issue of lacking significant scientific agreement[2] so does not bode well for Pom Wonderful in this instance. If further discussion of the debate is something you would rather develop as potential text, I recommend you post it here first for vetting. Thanks.--Zefr (talk) 00:22, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

Zefr: thank you for your comment. I appreciate your willingness to take part in a discussion about our mutual friend – the Pomegranate.

I find it appropriate to add the two reviews because the Wikipedia guideline WP:LAY (“Manual of Style/Layout” ) for the “further reading” – section encourages “publications that would help interested readers learn more about the article subject”. The content guideline WP:MEDRS (“Identifying reliable sources (medicine)” recommend using “literature reviews or systematic reviews” for this purpose (preferably open access articles).

Tobacco has a few positive health effects and many negative ones. Would a balanced perspective on tobacco products imply that we gave the positive and the negative health effects of smoking equal weight? Similarly, it is difficult to find many negative health effects from consuming a pomegranate, while recent research (year 2000 – 2011) and clinical results suggest that the benefits could be many.

For instance: Long time follow up results (Pomegranate juice in the treatment of prostate cancer) was published in the Journal of Urology in April 2009. This is the Official Journal of the American Urological Association. Similar positive results (this time with Pomegranate pills as a treatment for prostate cancer) will probably soon be published by researchers from the Johns Hopkins University.

Just as Wikipedia is based on consensus and can be changed by (new) consensus, what counts as “significant scientific agreement and totality of evidence” is an evolving matter and changes with time. It can’t be an easy task these days to be a guardian and protector of this slippery stuff. When early findings and new research indicates that the pomegranate could turn out to become a potent weapon against cancer and several other diseases, it is called scientific development. When these findings are described in a couple of reviews on Wikipedia, they are labeled ‘biased’, and judged by the speed with which my additions disappear, they must truly be perceived as unwelcome in some quarters. Please excuse my rhetoric; Common threats in our Era: Al-Qaeda, Global warming and the Pomegranate.

Wikipedia is not meant to be a mouthpiece for a particular group, person, organization, nation, leading scientific organization, industry or regulatory agency. History teaches us that all of them go astray from time to time. Wikipedia is based on consensus among its many users, and is owned by its users.

This is why one of the fundamental principles of Wikipedia, the WP:NPOV (“Neutral point of view” ), is so important. It stresses that due weight must be given to both the majority viewpoint and the standpoint of the minority. I am impressed by what I understand as your original and radical interpretation of this principle: suppress or remove one of the views and the problem is solved. At the same time I acknowledge that we work from different perspectives.

The best would be that we came to terms with each other, but if our difference in opinion and disagreement remains unresolved, we are (as far as I can see) left with only two alternatives: one of us have to give in or an embarrassing edit war threatens to break out.

I therefore propose a gentlemen’s agreement between us that can help to keep the sky blue: that we take care of the poor Pomegranate every other fortnight. Wikipedia says about a Gentlemen’s agreement “that it relies upon the honor of the parties for its fulfillment, rather than being in any way enforceable”. In other words, in my time interval the reviews are “up” and in your time period the reviews remain “down”. It is my humble opinion that an edit war is wearisome and something that men with manners should avoid. I hope you will find this an attractive and acceptable solution to our disagreement?

PS Soaring health costs and skyrocketing drug prices take its toll on the economy of many countries of the world. It is about to become a global problem. One of the reasons for this state of affairs was pointed out in an op-ed article in the New York Times back in April 2007. If this man is right in his analysis, then we are able to guess at what is the main reason why the pomegranate is so bothersome: it is not affordable within the existing system because it is too cheap. Granateple (talk) 21:02, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not a soapbox for promotion. --Ronz (talk) 18:34, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

Potential references

From [3]. See discussion: --Ronz (talk) 18:34, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

• Adhami, V.M. et al. ”Cancer Chemoprevention by Pomegranate: Laboratory and Clinical Evidence”,Nutrition and Cancer (2009),61(6):811-815.
• Viuda-Martos, M. et al. “Pomegranate and its Many Functional Components as Related to Human Health: A Review”, Comprehensive Reviews in Food Science and Food Safety (2010),9(6):635-654.

Thank you for your opinion. I refer to the reasoning in the section “Further reading and reviews” above. Please respond to the arguments.

It is interesting to note that the reviews are “a soapbox for promotion” at 18:34, 22 December 2011, and that they are “Potential references” at 18:34, 22 December 2011. It’s a pity that the Wikipedia software don’t give us seconds. Granateple (talk) 22:31, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

• I agree that these (and other) secondary reviews should be used in the article, and some/most of the citations to primary literature removed (from the "Potential health benefits"—this subsection in particular should conform to WP:MEDRS). Sasata (talk) 19:29, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

Unclear

Confusing terminology is used.

According to the photo labelled 'pomegranate arils', an aril is a seed PLUS the juicy red tissue around it. That seems to me to make sense.

But in the text it says: "arils (seed casings)". This means the aril is only the red tissue, not the seed.

A little further it says: "The entire seed is consumed raw, though the watery, tasty aril is the desired part." This suggests that the seed consists of both the outer red tissue AND the inner part.

Very confusing terminology. CBHA (talk) 23:47, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

Geography of origin

I have provided accurate edits of the origin of the fruit, citing Julia Morton's book which itself required editing because the reference was incomplete. The origin is suspected logically to be a broad area of the eastern Mediterranean Basin eastward to the Indian Himalayas, according to Morton. User Til Eulenspiegel has reversed these edits without adding support for her/his belief that the origin is limited to a relatively small geographic region of present-day Iran/Iraq. Other parts of the current Article do not adequately address origin. Without additional references, the Morton book chapter used by Purdue University, as often cited, appears to be the most widely accepted. Further editing of the Article is warranted. --Zefr (talk) 16:39, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

I reverted to the long and widely cited Persian origin, and provided the appropriate references. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.16.113.3 (talk) 17:41, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

I support this. There's nothing logical about claiming a plant species "originated" in half of the earth, this is just plain nonsense. The definition of "origin" means it should be pinpointed as closely as possible. Til Eulenspiegel /talk/ 18:06, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

We know that certain plant species, have been indigenous to certain parts of the world, and have becoming imported in later history. Pomegranate is generally believed to have originated in Iran, and perhaps the surrounding areas. This has been a viable hypothesis for some time now. And the idea of a late distribution from a Persian center of origin, is consistent with genetic and archaeological evidence, which clearly reflects Neolithic diffusion of human populations from the Iranian plateau (and Turkey), westward into Europe, the Middle East, and India.

'Iran and the vicinity' sounds reasonable, and is in-line with what has been cited. A couple of the sources do note that the plant may have also been native to surrounding regions , too. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.16.113.3 (talk) 19:15, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

It's interesting, because 2 of the sources that he lists, mentions Iran as the origin. I have found one other scientific source [4] that supports Iran, and another that supports 'through Iran and trans-caucasia' [5]. These articles are loaded with independent references to the origin in and around Iran. That being said it is only reasonable to change to 'vicinity of Iran'.

Pomegranates in Ancient Greece

Hi, I'm new to Wikipedia and I'm not so sure on editing and sourcing guidelines; I'm adding this here in case someone else wants to take care of this.

First, The Ancient Greece section for this article lacks mention of the Pomegranate sprouting from the blood of Adonis (Found in last paragraph on pg. 96 of Robert Graves' The Greek Myths, Folio Society, 14th printing from 2002.)

Second, Graves' book also says that Persephone only spent three months in the company of Hades (pg. 93, last paragraph) while the wiki page says six. Sources conflict on the exact numbers, it just might be worth mentioning the discrepancies. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.134.231.165 (talk) 23:28, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

Forgot to mention that this particular edition omits Graves' own citations, as they were considered burdensome. So if the above needs to be verified by a more official source, then another edition of The Greek Myths might cite the original source material. In case page numbers differ between editions, it can be found in the chapter titled Demeter's Nature and Deeds. Hope this helps! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.134.231.165 (talk) 23:59, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

I've gone ahead and added the mention of a pomegranate springing from the blood of Adonis. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.42.240.24 (talk) 03:07, 31 August 2013 (UTC)

2002

The article mentions that pomegranate juice products began to be widely distributed around 2002. This jibes with my own observation, but is there a reason? Was there some technological advance then that allowed easier mechanical extraction of the juice from the fruit? El Mariachi (talk) 12:24, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

Featured picture scheduled for POTD

Hello! This is to let editors know that File:Pomegranate (opened).jpg, a featured picture used in this article, has been selected as the English Wikipedia's picture of the day (POTD) for June 27, 2023. A preview of the POTD is displayed below and can be edited at Template:POTD/2023-06-27. For the greater benefit of readers, any potential improvements or maintenance that could benefit the quality of this article should be done before its scheduled appearance on the Main Page. If you have any concerns, please place a message at Wikipedia talk:Picture of the day. Thank you! Adam Cuerden ^(talk)_{Has about 8.4% of all FPs.} 21:32, 18 June 2023 (UTC)

The pomegranate (Punica granatum) is a fruit-bearing deciduous shrub in the family Lythraceae, subfamily Punicoideae, that grows between 5 and 10 m (16 and 33 ft) tall. The pomegranate was originally found only throughout the Mediterranean region. It was introduced into Spanish America in the late 16th century and into California by Spanish settlers in 1769.

Photograph credit Ivar Leidus

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Aril confusion

The article needs improvement to help readers understand exactly how the terms ARIL and SEED (and BERRY) apply to this fruit -- both the exact technical correct meanings and the common usages. Cross-section diagrams perhaps?-73.61.15.155 (talk) 17:11, 19 November 2017 (UTC)

((could someone please fix the broken way footnotes format by default on talk pages? they ought to default to the sections, not the bottom of the page!))-73.61.15.155 (talk) 17:13, 19 November 2017 (UTC)

Both tasks completed, with a rewritten section here. There are 3 images in the article showing the arils inside a cut fruit. --Zefr (talk) 00:13, 20 November 2017 (UTC)

The fleshy edible part of a pomegranate seed is a sarcotesta not an aril. It looks like there are citations that go either way. ~Randy (talk) 07:08, 14 February 2019 (UTC)