Talk:Platinum/Archive 1

Archive 1

Untitled

This archive includes threads from Talk:Platinum from the page's creation until December 31st, 2010.

New format

Article changed over to new Wikipedia:WikiProject Elements format by maveric149. Elementbox converted 11:44, 14 July 2005 by Femto (previous revision was that of 05:55, 14 July 2005).

Information Sources

Some of the text in this entry was rewritten from Los Alamos National Laboratory - Platinum. Additional text was taken directly from USGS Platinum Statistics and Information, from the Elements database 20001107 (via dict.org), Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913) (via dict.org) and WordNet (r) 1.7 (via dict.org). Data for the table were obtained from the sources listed on the subject page and Wikipedia:WikiProject Elements but were reformatted and converted into SI units.

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I ld just like to ask if you could state ALL the different isotopes in this section as i would find it interesting to know them all- Posted by DarrenLepper (darrenlepper2004@yahoo.co.nz) 08-06-04

Formatting

I don't know Wiki formatting, but does anyone else see this page as very screwed up? The notable characteristics header starts about a page before the paragraph. 134.226.1.234 15:52, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Yep, its a mess. Not too up on formatting myself at this juncture or I'd have a go at it. Drrocket 17:45, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. I moved the "alchemy" symbol because it was overwriting the adjacent text. Tried it in various places, but it always makes a mess of any nearby text. The other images are not where they're supposed to be, but the text is readable, so I left them alone Hoserjoe 06:50, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Density

There are various references that state the density of platinum to be 21.45, eg

[1]

I also checked a paper source, the CRC Handbook of Chemistry and Physics, 60th Ed, pages B-17 and B-106, which also gives 21.45 at 20 deg C.

See also Talk:Density

I am not sure of the protocol in such areas where the appear to be various reputable sources that give differnt data..but I tend to side with the paper book!

--GPoss 06:53, Aug 22, 2004 (UTC)

I know about WP:OR but I had some platinum machined into 1cc blocks - and according to my kitchen scales, they weight 21.45kg for 1 litre - so I'm happy with 21.45g/cm³. Stephen B Streater 08:21, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Very interesting

I found this on Anglo Platinum website. Could never have guessed some of these stuff have platinum "Platinum's use in the manufacture of silicones has grown over the last few years and now accounts for the largest proportion of chemical demand for platinum. It is completely consumed in the process, and demand increases directly with output. Silicones are used in the manufacture of pressure-sensitive adhesives, release liners, and water-repellent coatings. Pressure-sensitive adhesives are used in Post-it® notes, while release liners are used in re-sealable plastic bags. Water-repellent coatings have a vast array of applications, among them furniture polish and cleaning products. Platinum demand was unchanged, given no significant increase in output of these chemicals."

Amount Mined

If anyone knows approximately how many tons or ounces of Platinum is mined each year, that would be an interesting fact to add. KellyCoinGuy 06:59, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

This financial BB (which is free to register on) reckons on about 6m Oz/year in 2002. But it's not really a reliable source, despite the nice pie charts. I'll see what I can find. Stephen B Streater 08:27, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Other links to cites on production: 1997 report 2004 and more respectable source BBC report. So I think around 6m Troy oz/year is a good estimate. I'll add something to the article. Stephen B Streater 08:35, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

The article says:

World production

World supply of platinum is around 7 million troy ounces (199,000 kg) per year. Platinum's cost fluctuates around USD $1100 per ounce ($35/g). [2] --Kalmia 23:25, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Both the USGS ( United States Geological Survey )[3] and Johnson Matthey [4] report on historical platinum supply. Since supply has been increasing relatively rapidly (from 5 million oz in 1997 to 7 million in 2006), it seems more appropriate to indicate the year next to the data. If price is to be included, it seems critical that a date be included because Platinum prices have been so volatile (in 1999 it was less than $400/oz and on Aug.13, 2007 it was more than $1270/oz) [5]. I agree with posting below about costs that a historical range of prices and links need to be included. -- Elisa 4:20pm, August 13, 2007

The USGS give 2007 estimated platinum production at 230,000 kg or 7.4 million troy ounces. Have another look at that ankle deep Olympic sized pool full of platinum. Was the original source talking about the platinum that had been mined or the reserves or the resources? As we know, the Web is full of utter nonsense and if we are to build up any credibility we really must do our own checks and make sure that we are not disseminating the same nonsense.Egoli (talk) 22:37, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

cost

Cost is very relevant - and as my edits state - industrial commodities can be very volatile. It's ridiculous to state a price. It needs to use a web service to get the current spot price. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ricka0 (talk • contribs) 06:11, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

is the industrial pricing for platinum relivent for encyclopedia content? the article states it costs 1.5times as much as gold, so i guess it is. research, anyone? mastodon 02:48, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

I second that. I just came to this article looking for the price of platinum and couldn't find anything. This would easily qualify as encyclopedic content so long as it is qualified with a date, i.e., "As of 2006-03-02 the price of platinum on the commodities market was around $700 an ounce." --Cyde Weys 15:13, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

1 ounce of Platinum is $1,293.00 USD. Keep in mind 1 ounce of Gold is $652.65 USD. These are the current standings for May 26, 2006.

-G

As the price is quite volatile, I suggest a more encyclopaedic reference would be to the range of prices over a certain period eg 1995 low and high, Q1 2006 High and Low. People don't come here for news, but a link to eg kitco.com gives the current price. And prices over the last complete quarter would be easier to update and maintain in future when we're all gone. Stephen B Streater 08:19, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Since this is the internet, it's most useful to link to daily price charts. I'll come back later and have a go at it, but if I don't, feel free to do it yourself. Try http://www.platinum.matthey.com/prices/price_charts.html

Information

Is there an article or website I can go to on how to separate Platinum from iron. 24.216.237.219 01:42, 11 June 2006 (UTC)SA June 10, 2006

PLatinum in medical implant devices

references to platinum as a catalyst in silicone medical devices added. Concerns over potential toxicity recieved some press recently and have been addressed by the FDA. Link attached Droliver

No link attached. In any event, this is an article about platinum, not breast implants. There is an article about breast implants on Wikipedia. Gfwesq 01:53, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

FDA link is attached for a review related specifically to platinum. Platinum is a catalyst used in the curing of silicone in dozens of different medical implant devices (orthopedic implants, breast implants, testicular & penile prosthesis, spine hardware, artificial heart valves, etc....)Droliver 17:52, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Looks like a legitimate issue on the biological effects of platinum to me. Femto 18:31, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Therefore, I left your last edit, Femto, where there is a link to breast implants. The FDA has been asked by other scientists for more research to refute or confirm the 2006 study. This is not a discussion on breast implants. At the most, it should be mentioned as you did, with a link. The other medical devices do not have a paragraph on it. Oliver simply wants to push his interest in breast implants all over wikipedia, in every article he can. IT is not appropriate.MollyBloom 17:15, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

platinum is the catalyst in dozens of different medical devices and as such this is a relevent aside. The study in Analytic Chemistry re potential platinum toxicity would apply to many different devices. This claim has been reviewed and dismissed by the FDA, Health Canada, and the British health ministry. Even analytic chemistry is now publicly saying they do not have faith in the methods and results of that research.Droliver 15:29, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Pure Platinum, when cast and un-worked is quite soft, much like Gold, and makes only a dull 'thunk' when struck. If rolled into a plate, it work-hardens to some extent and will make a higher pitched sound when struck but not a 'ring' at all, the tone being rather flat. The only time I ever got Platinum to 'ring' when struck was as a cast 95% Pt 5% Pd bar. This alloy produced a pure bell-like tone when struck. Drrocket 17:42, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

That 5ppb is the crustal average; the 0.5ppm (or 500ppb) in the Sudbury ore indicates a hundred-fold enrichment over the average, that's why it's ore. Vsmith 13:32, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Color

"When pure the metal appears greyish-white and firm."

Not at all certain what is meant by "firm" in this case. Both the pure sponge, obtained by thermal decomposition of Ammonium Hexachloroplatinate, and the pure powdered metal are light-grey in color but the massive form obtained from melting pure sponge or powder is silver in color without the white tones one finds with actual Silver. If anything, there is the slightest hint of yellow along the lines of the hints of blue seen in the massive form of Rhodium. Drrocket 18:42, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

RIAA Album notation

Should there be something here that indicates that (like with the credit card) the platinum is the highest official calibre of record sales (other than the unofficial diamond, colloquially known only, meaning 10x platinum).

I don't know the direct link, but I think it'd be appropriate to promote the status of platinum in the public eye.

anybody agree?

--lincalinca 22:24, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

There's already something in the "Rarity and color" section, which includes a (badly piped) link to Music recording sales certification. Femto 12:58, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

There's no 'see also' at the top of the page - Platinum (disambiguation) has this information. I've put a dab at the top, as with silver and gold. Proto::type 14:15, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Mohs hardness

The mohs value of 3.5 contradicts the "4 - 4.5" given at Mohs_scale_of_mineral_hardness. I've looked at several pages on the internet and several give 3.5 while several others give 4.3. I've had great trouble figuring out which one is correct.--Father Goose 05:39, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

"Lumbare"

Lumbare [Latin] refers to the pelvic girdle in general whereas Lumbar is a location modifier for vertebrae.

vis: Populum istum pessimum qui nolunt audire verba mea et ambulant in pravitate cordis sui abieruntque post deos alienos ut servirent eis et adorarent eos et erunt sicut lumbare istud quod nullo usui aptum est. Wherein lumbare refers to the pelvic girdle of the human body.

Drrocket 20:45, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Giant Blank

Hey, someone going to fix that? Colonel Marksman 00:51, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

what are some common compounds that contains patinum?

jfghj —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.58.155.42 (talk) 01:52, 11 March 2007 (UTC).

Platinum Supplements?

In Japan they're making anti-aging supplements that contain Platinum (or say they do). The slogan on the commercials is "Platinum doesn't rust; It doesn't rust so it stays beautiful". Has anybody heard about this? Does it seem effective, ineffective, or what? Is platinum safe to injest?

The article image might be wrong.

I've noticed the image of Platinum is also the same image used for the article on Tantalum. Could someone please explain this?, as they the two metals can't possibly be the same. :-) Nateland 23:46, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Image:Pt,78.jpg and Image:Ta,73.jpg? Look different to me. Femto 14:38, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

photos

The lead photo for most metals and elements articles feature a distinctly dull and usually uninformative representation of the appearance of the metal or element under discussion. Please provide a photo other than that of a [quite often] frosty, milky or otherwise hazy-looking substance inside a glass vial. For example, if a metal is described as being able to take on a high polish, then that metal ought to have a photo that doesn't look like a toddler's leftover morning cereal. Face it, many DO look this way, too! 71.59.70.21 01:33, 30 May 2007 (UTC)PLK

Is platinum known as white gold?

No, white gold is an alloy. Look up the term on any search engine and you will learn all you want to know. Inhumandecency (talk) 19:22, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Rarity and color

This section is dreadful; it addresses neither the rarity nor the color of the element, but, rather, its use in marketing. The marketing discussion is, at best, vague (i.e. above gold and under diamond in the awards for an unknown institution) and does not cite sources. The mention of the crown of Queen Elizabeth is unnecessary trivia that, if anywhere, belongs in the article on the crown itself. I would propose to remove this section. Thoughts? Ɛƚƈơƅƅơƚɑ talk/diskussion 21:20, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Swimming Pool

It says that all the platinum mined in the world comes to two hundred thousand kilos a year - but also that the total amount of platinum in the world would only fill four inches of a swimming pool. Does this strike anyone else as odd? 80.229.160.127 (talk) 21:31, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Go to: http://www.simetric.co.uk/si_metals.htm

The site says that one cubic meter of platinum weighs 21,400 kilograms. Thus "over 200,000 kilograms" would be about ten cubic meters of the metal. I'm not too sure what the square footage of an average swimming pool might be, but slicing these cubic meter cubes into 10 centimeter slices (approximately 4 inches, for the sake of argument) would produce 100 slices, or 100 square meters, that's a 10 square meter pool. Not tiny, but not huge. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.143.208.234 (talk) 19:09, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

So that would mean that the entire world supply of platinum would be mined out in one year... 80.229.160.127 (talk) 19:11, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

No, that means one years production gives 10 cm in a 100 m^2 pool. But an olympic size swimming pool is 1250 m^2, so that's 12 years of production. If we're talking reserves (as it says in the article), the kind that's not been mined yet, 12 years of production in proven reserves is pretty standard for a mine. But if we're talking about the total amount ever mined, 12 years of the current production seems a bit low. Either way, swimming pools is a strange metric, and the statement should be backed by a real number.81.235.136.245 (talk) 02:37, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

The source for this statement is "Retail Jewelers of Ireland". Given the amount of inaccurate information I have been told by jewelers in the past, I have difficulty accepting this as an authoritative source. Given the dubiousness of the claim, we either need a better source for this statement or to remove it altogether. Egomaniac (talk) 14:37, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

--- I have found this claim, and the fact that the only sources that claim it being jewelers, to be odd. I am a chemistry student and I have a chart from quickstudy.com that says that the "Elemental Abundance mg per kg of crust" of platinum is .005, while that of gold is .004. In other words, it is estimated that gold is actually rarer than platinum. Chemists and car manufacturers use platinum, although palladium, being more abundant, is preferable when it can be used. RegiG (talk) 02:17, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

I've done a rough calculation how much the present resource base of platinum would fill an Olympic size swimming pool and I got just under 3 metres, hardly ankle deep. It is interesting that the elemental abundance of platinum appears to be higher than gold. Anyone who has followed the market over the past decade or two will remember the discovery of low grade platinum in both Australia and Canada and in an ultrabasic intrusion in Greenland. Like so many othe metals it is all a question of price and technology. Make the price high enough and tweaak the technology and geologists are quite good at finding it, as they have done in recent years for uranium, gold and diamonds. Sure, they are all finite resources but lots of deposits that have been disregarded as too low grade are beginning to get interesting, a good current example being copper. Egoli (talk) 11:55, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Rarity and color

The section "Rarity and color" should be renamed, as it does not give details on the rarity of the metal and says nothing about the color; it only describes the symbolic prestige associated with it. I suggest "Symbolic prestige" as the new title. Mal7798 (talk) 19:38, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Production

Hi, I've added the Prices from 1991 taken from the Lodon platinum market data --bloublou (talk) 23:28, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

The platinum price graph is quite provocative. Does anyone know why the price was stable for 17 years, then shoots up in 2000 and continues to climb to the present day? Inhumandecency (talk) 19:24, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

This report has a detailed explanation, but from what I understand it can be summarized as supply and demand in a small market, few producers in "relatively unstable countries", and speculation. http://www.preciousmetals.umicore.com/publications/articles_by_umicore/general/show_Metal_PGMmarkets_200602.pdf --Itub (talk) 17:04, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Extracting platinum from road dust?

This might be worth a mention:

"Angela Murray says the street soot deposited from car exhausts contains enough of the precious metal to justify its collection and processing.

Currently the dust is collected by roadsweepers along with the rest of the rubbish and is then just thrown away.

However, having successfully extracted the cash rich metals platinum, palladium and rhodium in small quantities, the 28-year-old now hopes to develop her own business."

cojoco (talk) 04:34, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Also a version of the game "Pokemon". Very good game —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pokemaster1053 (talk • contribs) 03:01, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Platinum/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

improve the aplications section! the most important aplications are absent ant chloroplatinate and watches are not a important aplications. Uranus' symbol is also a symbol for platinum, which isn't mentioned here. Lanthanum-138 (talk) 04:03, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

Last edited at 11:41, 9 September 2012 (UTC). Substituted at 15:34, 1 May 2016 (UTC)

Picture blocking

The first four(?) pictures in the the first gallery is blocking the information on the abundance of the metal in the column. Please fix. Androo123 (talk) 21:20, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

It looks fine to me. Which browser are you using?—Tetracube (talk) 22:16, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Yes, it is certainly dependent on the browser and screen settings. I moved the gallery slightly down hoping this might make things better for you (?). Materialscientist (talk) 22:21, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Platinum/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Jezhotwells (talk) 20:41, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

I shall be reviewing this article against the Good Article criteria, following its nomination for Good Article status.

Disambiguations: No dabs

Linkrot: No dead links. Jezhotwells (talk) 20:45, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

Checking against GA criteria

GA review (see here for criteria)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

   I made some copy-edits.diff

   Heating the ammonium salt in the presence of hydrogen reduces it to elemental platinum.Potassium hexachloroplatinate is similarly insoluble, such that the acid has been used in the determination of potassium ions by gravimetry. "such that", suggest rephrasing for better grammar. Y

   The Lead does not mention the negative medical defects of the metal. Also, it should be expanded to at least 2 paragraphs to fully summarise the article as per WP:LEAD  Done

   Expanded the lead. Nergaal (talk) 01:45, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

   Suggest moving History above Production for balance.  Done

   moved Nergaal (talk) 01:45, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

   Formatting of citations appears inconsistent. Web sources need access date. Need to go through using appropriate {{citation}} templates for journals, books and web sources. Y

   Sources appear fine.

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

   OK, just a few points noted above. On hold for seven days. Jezhotwells (talk) 21:19, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

   Thanks, much improved now. I am happy to pass this as a Good article. Jezhotwells (talk) 19:22, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

   Heating the ammonium salt in the presence of hydrogen reduces it to elemental platinum.Potassium hexachloroplatinate is similarly insoluble, such that the acid has been used in the determination of potassium ions by gravimetry. "such that", suggest rephrasing for better grammar.

I think I wrote that. Could you tell me what you object to again? KPtCl6 is insoluble. As a direct result, the acid (H2PtCl6) is used for .... --Rifleman 82 (talk) 00:11, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

"such that" is clearly ungrammatical and the whole really makes no sence, suggest re-writing in plain english. Jezhotwells (talk) 00:21, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

I'm not sure why it is ungrammatical. It's used often enough in mathematics that there is a symbol for it. But since you are bothered, I'll try and rewrite it. --Rifleman 82 (talk) 02:26, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

Yes it is commonly used in mathematics, but in a general encyclopaedia such as Wikipedia, plain English is best. Thanks for changing this.

-- "I agree that "such that" sounds clumsy. "As a direct result," however, abruptly shifts the emphasis onto a subsidiary process away from the property itself. "... resulting in its use as..." would be smoother.

• The isotopes section should have a quick note on Pt-195 being the only stable isotope that has a nuclear spin. Nergaal (talk) 11:12, 19 September 2010 (UTC)  Done

"Refer" or "reference?"

The growing use of "referenced" instead of the customary "referred to" in Wikipedia is regrettable. Besides sounding affected, "reference" tacitly "references" the Paris deconstructionists, and hence inevitably imports an obtrusive political echo into the subject. Note that my use of the verb in the previous sentence is the proper way to use this word, i.e., as a cultural signifier, not as a simple literary citation. Orthotox (talk) 20:13, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

Chemistry & compounds

While I usually prefer that these two sections be separate, they are clearly interlinked for this and all other articles. Things as they stand are not ideal. I'll come back tomorrow to tidy it up, but if anyone else would like to work on it, please feel free. --Rifleman 82 (talk) 02:45, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

Pronunciation

Currently given as /ˈplæt.n.əm/ or /ˈplæt.nəm/. However, speakers (such as myself) without the Lennon-Lenin merger have an actual [ɪ] in the second syllable, and since the transcription is phonemic, more satisfactory would be to give "/ˈplæt.ɪn.əm/ or /ˈplæt.nəm/" thus producing all three correct phonetic renditions without having to overburden the page with a third phonemic version. 91.105.19.134 (talk) 18:39, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Price of platinum

For what reason was my edit to the price of platinum "not constructive"? Did you even read it. Sorry, but it was and I am changing it back. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.154.176.128 (talk) 20:55, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

The Kitco chart linked to in footnote 41 is not useful - it shows the past year dating back from the current day of access, whereas the text talks about the specific year of 2008. If no-one minds, I'm changing the Kitco link to show their permanent chart for 2008, which is when the volatility referred to occurred. Tulliux (talk) 22:30, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

Yep, that would make perfect sense. Bobby ^{I'm Here, Are You There?} 00:44, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

Gold

When it was cheaper than gold, platinum was used to make fake gold coins. See www.goldsovereigns.co.uk/fakes.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.97.55.83 (talk) 11:49, 28 September 2011 (UTC)

File:Platinum-nugget.jpg to appear as POTD soon

Hello! This is a note to let the editors of this article know that File:Platinum-nugget.jpg will be appearing as picture of the day on October 22, 2011. You can view and edit the POTD blurb at Template:POTD/2011-10-22. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page so Wikipedia doesn't look bad. :) Thanks! howcheng {chat} 16:58, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

Picture of the day

A nugget of platinum, a dense, malleable, ductile, precious, gray-white transition metal. It is one of the rarest elements in the Earth's crust. It exhibits a remarkable resistance to corrosion, even at high temperatures, and as such is considered a noble metal. As a result, platinum is often found chemically uncombined as a native metal.Photo: Alchemist-hp

Price of platinum...

How to calculate Platinum weight ... And like wise gold is calculated in karat for quality measurement, is there any for Platinum???

Please friends help me out.... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Antonysince1989 (talk • contribs) 18:34, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

Rarity of Platinum

The rarity of Platinum is given as 0.005 ppm. A source for this data should be given as the references I have indicate 0.003 may be more accurate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.207.160.37 (talk) 05:10, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

Please some try to include a list of platinum producing areas/ countries — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ginger789 (talk • contribs) 15:16, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

In 2009, South Africa was the top producer of platinum, with an almost 80% share, followed by Russia at 11%; world production in 2009 was 178,000 kg. Is what the text says, so there is no large other producer.--Stone (talk) 21:14, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

Uhm... obvious wrong, but cited?

"platina del Pinto, which is literally translated into 'little silver of the Pinto River.'"

platina del Pinto very clearly and obviously translates literally to "little silver of the Pinto" To say "little silver of the Pinto River" it would have to be platina de la Rio Pinto.

While Rio may be implicit, it's not in the literal translation, and any cited source that affirms this is quite simply wrong. Another case where Wikipedia fails as the largest example of the fallacy of appeal to authority ever.

72.247.151.10 (talk) 23:12, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

Thank goodness that there's never more than one way to translate anything, since every language is always 100% the same in sentance structure and vocabulary. It's been so great since we created the "languatrons" which rattle off perfect, flawless translations of anything and everything with out any ambiguity or need for correction. I mean, it's not like I can throw "little silver of the Pinto" into Babelfish[6], and get "poca plata del Pinto" in Spanish, then translate it from Spanish to French and get "peu d'argent de du Peint", which then becomes "little d' money of Painted" in English.
So you see: just because you think something is wrong doesn't necessarily mean it is, or perhaps was when the citation was written. Can you say that EVERY dialect of Spanish ever written follows the same rules you're following? By "modern standards" there's many a work by Shakespeare that is grammatically wrong, but I don't think that arguement works. Best, Markvs88 (talk) 23:58, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

Um...you might want to curb the snotty attitude. That's not the literal translation, this has nothing to do with dialect, and name-dropping Shakespeare doesn't help your case. The word "rio" is not there, period. Words have meanings. A "literal" translation this is not, and any assertion that it is is incorrect.

But thanks for playing. 74.177.198.250 (talk) 06:43, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

Does the number of isotopes of an element really correlate with occurence?

It is stated "Even though it has six naturally occurring isotopes, platinum is one of the rarest elements in the Earth's crust ...", suggesting that with so many isotopes it should be more common, yet I'm not aware of any reason why this should be. If it's a well-established phenomenon, there should be a cross-reference; if it isn't, the clause should be deleted. Indeed, were it true, elements such as hydrogen and oxygen should be vanishingly rare! Anybody know? Xarqi (talk) 09:46, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Yes, one does not imply the other. I've removed the link in the article. The abundance needs a reference. --Rifleman 82 (talk) 15:32, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Platinum reactivity error

This article plainly states that platinum is the "least reactive metal", linking to a basic reactivity series (which contains very few elements in it) as proof. This is misleading, as Iridium is the least reactive metal, and it isn't the only metal that is less reactive than platinum. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Xavier47 (talk • contribs) 14:38, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

Production and Trade

I noticed that the section "Production and Trade" deals with production only, trade in not mentioned or described.Ernstvgr (talk) 09:35, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

Etymology

That etymology is rather expansive. I've read several sources that have said, "Platina means 'little silver'." Though I do not have any sources off the top of my head, I know the etymology is too expansive. I don't care if wikipedia prefers book sources, the point of citations is to prove that you found an accurate source of information (preferably an accurate one), not to have sources that appeal to the users. A source that appeals, for all we know, could be wrong! (I'm only trying to contribute, not cause trouble)--96.242.163.228 (talk) 17:00, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

Update

I found the book of the previous etymology online [7], but you can find several sources that state that such etymology found in the book is a bit inaccurate. Do we remove the book source, since it doesn't seem to have much citation influence on other information? --96.242.163.228 (talk) 21:19, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

Please cite your sources here first. Mindat takes information from various sources, which are not always as reliable as books. Materialscientist (talk) 21:45, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

I've removed the "del Pinto" part from "platina del Pinto" - Britannica, Oxford dictionary and www.etymonline.com don't mention it. Indeed sounds speculative. Materialscientist (talk) 22:31, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

Ulloa called the material platina del Pinto in 1756 [8] --Stone (talk) 09:39, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

Interesting. Ulloa wrote it "was called Platina di Pinto", i.e. it is not that he named it so. Ulloa is not the sole discoverer. Thus the question is what came first, "platina" or "platina del Pinto", and which term was more common. Materialscientist (talk) 09:48, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

What I can tell you from looking in the references below and looking into a full bibliography here [9] I can tell you that in the 1750s already both del and di was used. --Stone (talk) 19:25, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

First, I have no preference to any of these names, and mostly reacted to the IP changes. Second, it seems (say, from your list [10]) that all three names were used. I would treat all those historical reports as primary sources and go by secondary sources, which is what I tried to do following Britannica and Etymonline. (I've briefly checked one major Soviet etymological dictionary right now - it also omits Pinto). Materialscientist (talk) 07:25, 27 April 2012 (UTC)

The flap about the use of Platinum with Hydrogen and/or Deuterium makes the structure of the atom interesting. It may be visualized as an accumulation of 78 Deuterons plus the following number of excess neutrons: 34 for EE78Pt190 (0.014%), 36 for EE78Pt192 (0.782%), 38 for EE78Pt194 (32.967%), 39 for EO78Pt195 (33.832%), 40 for EE78Pt196 (25.242%), and 42 for EE78Pt198 (7.163%). Nothing has been mentioned concerning about isotopic differences related to this matter. 78Pt Platinum is the 8th element of the 3rd (2 + 4 + 4 = 10) 10 element transmission series and accordingly lacks 2 deuterons from being a completed 80Hg Mercury stricture. It may thus be assumed that 2 of the excess neutrons are in locations where deuterons would result in the creation of of 80Hg Mercury. The fact that the atom lacks 2 protons from achieving a 90Hg configuration probably indicates there are 2 corner positions in the 78Pt structure series that did not accumulate the required proton of the deutron pair.The stability trend line through this area has the formula A = 3Z - 40, which runs through EE78Pt196, but does not continue into 79Au Gold because OE79Au197 is the beginning of a new trend line extension that extends from OE79Au197 through OE83Bi209. The question accordingly arises as to if any of the various isotopes are particularly significant with relation to this subject matter. The constituency values indicate that the greater than + 38 isotopes are nearer to the stability trend line category. It is accordingly considered that a design of experiments concerning the properties of 78Pt Platinum should include tests of the specific isotopes EE78Pt190, EO78Pt195, and EE78Pt198, in order to discover any significant factors related to the excess neutron number.WFPM (talk) 14:16, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

References

• Cronstedt (1750). "Versuche und Anmerkungen über die Platina del Pinto". Der Konigl. Schwedischen akademie der wissenschaften Abhandlungen, aus der naturlehre, haushsltungskunst und mechanik. Scheffer & Lewis & Marggraf & de la Lande & Marquer already did some research earlier
• Lewis, William (1763). "History of Platina". Commercium philosophico-technicum: Or, the philosophical commerce of arts: Designed as an attempt to improve arts, trades, and manufactures. He states that Platina, Platina di Pinto or del Pinto, and Juan blanca are the names for the metal from the Westindies. Charles Wood was the assay-master in the Westindies and saw platina eight years before it was exported. He states that he publishes the first results from wood in the 44th volume of Philiosophical Transactions for the years 1749 and 1750. Scheffer published in 1752 in the Swedish Handlingar. Rudenschoeld brought platina from Spain in 1745. Marquer und Baume.
• Wallerius, Johan Gottschalk; Mangold, Christoph Andreas; Weigel, Christian Ehrenfried (1776). "Sieben und zwanzigstes Capitel: Von der Platina". Physische Chemie: Welche von der Natur und Beschaffenheit der Chemie überhaupt von ihrer Geschichte, Zeichen, sowol leidenden als wirkenden Werkzeugen, und endlich von den Arbeiten und hervorgebrachten chemischen Cörpern, auf systematische Art handelt. Von den 7 halben und den 7 ganzen Metallen, und den Produkten derselben.
• Marggraf, Andreas Sigismund (1760). Versuche mit dem neuen mineralischen Körper Platina del pinto genannt.
• Krünitz, Johann Georg; Floerken, Friedrich Jakob; Flörke, Heinrich Gustav; Korth, Johann Wilhelm David; Hoffmann, Carl Otto; Kossarski, Ludwig (1788). Oekonomische encyklopädie, oder Allgemeines system der staats- stadt- haus- u. Landwirthschaft, in alphabetischer ordnung.
• Brownrigg (1752). "Several Papers concerning a new Semi-Metal, called Platina; communicated to the Royal Society by Mr. Wm Watson". Philosophical transactions, giving some accompt of the present undertakings, studies, and labours of the ingenious in many considerable parts of the world.
• Weigel, Christian Ehrenfried (1777). Grundriß der reinen und angewandten Chemie: Zum Gebrauch academischer Vorlesungen entworfen. Die technisch-ökonomische Chemie.
• London, Royal Society of (1756). The philosophical transactions and collections: Abridged and disposed under General Heads.
• Berlin, Deutsche Akademie der Wissenschaften zu (1759). Histoire de l'Academie Royale des Sciences et des Belles Lettres: Année 1745-1769.
• (Stockholm), Kungliga Svenska Vetenskapsakademien; Kastner, Abraham Gotthelf; Link, Heinrich Friedrich (1767). Der Konigl. Schwedischen Akademie der Wissenschaften neue Abhandlungen aus der Naturlehre, Haushaltungskunst und Mechanik.
• Cronstedt, Axel; Wiedeman, G (1760). Versuch einer neuen Mineralogie.
• Lewis, Willhelm (1766). "Siebentes Stück: Die Historie der Platina oder des weißen Goldes". Der Zusammenhang der Künste philosophisch-practisch abgehandelt: Ein Versuch für die Beförderung der Künste, Gewerbe und Manufacturen.
• Marggraf, Andreas Sigismund (1762). "Essais concernant la nouvelle espece de corps mineral, conu sous le nom de Platina del Pinto". Opuscules chymiques de m. Margraf ...: Tome second.
• Linné, Carl von (1768). Caroli a Linne ... Systema naturae per regna tria naturae secundum classes, ordines, genera, species cum characteribus differentiis synonymis, locis.
• Griffiths, Ralph; Griffiths, George Edward (1755). The Monthly review.
• Daunou, Pierre Claude François; Lebrun, Pierre Antoine; Giraud, Charles; Hauréau, Barthélemy; (France), Académie des Inscriptions Belles-Lettres; Delisle, Léopold; France, Institut de; Paris, Gaston Bruno Paulin; Cagnat, René (1758). "La Platine,L'OR Blanc oule Huitieme Metak". Journal des Savants.
• Scheffer, Henrik Teofilus (1752). "Beskrifning om det guldet, eller de sjunde metallen, kalladt i spanien Platina del Pinto". Handlingar.
• McDonald, Donald; Hunt, Leslie Bernard (1982). A history of platinum and its allied metals. ISBN 9780905118833.
• Hunt, L. B. (1980). "Swedish Contributions to the Discovery of Platinum" (PDF). Platinum Metals Review.
• . JSTOR 531195. {{cite journal}}: Cite journal requires |journal= (help); Missing or empty |title= (help)
• Lane, Kris (2011). "Gone Platinum: Contraband and Chemistry in Eighteenth-Century Colombia". Colonial Latin American Review. 20: 61. doi:10.1080/10609164.2011.552549.
• Wisniak, Jaime (2005). Indian Journal of Chemical Technology http://nopr.niscair.res.in/bitstream/123456789/8682/1/IJCT%2012%285%29%20601-614.pdf Indian Journal of Chemical Technology. {{cite journal}}: Check |url= value (help); Cite journal requires |journal= (help); Missing or empty |title= (help)
• Russell-Wood, J. (1951). "The scientific work of William Brownrigg, M.D., F.R.S. (1711–1800).—III". Annals of Science. 7 (2): 199. doi:10.1080/00033795100202331.
• Lindner, Herbert (2004-02-18). Platin- Entdeckung- Verwendung. ISBN 9783638254786.
• Luis Fermin Capitiin Vallvey. "The Spanish Monopoly of Platina STAGES IN THE DEVELOPMENT AND IMPLEMENTATION OF A POLICY" (PDF). {{cite journal}}: Cite journal requires |journal= (help)
• Ernst, Michael (2010-10). Eine Weltgeschichte des Platins: Das achte Metall. ISBN 9783866468337. {{cite book}}: Check date values in: |date= (help)

--Stone (talk) 19:10, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

The discovery of the platinum was made in Esmeralda (Equator), border region between Equator and Colombia. I do not have sources, but please, have a look at Antonio de Ulloa (wikipedia) and spanish wikipedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nimeria (talk • contribs) 07:46, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

Hardness

In the second paragraph of the Physical section it says Platinum's resistance to wear and tarnish is well suited for making fine jewelry. Pure platinum is slightly harder than pure iron. The juxtaposition of these two sentences is misleading, as jewelry is almost never made of pure (or 999) platinum. Instead, it is nearly always alloyed with other metals, at least down to 950, to make it harder and more durable. The second sentence is also problematic on it's own. Jewelers and others who work with platinum characterize pure platinum as a soft metal, although not as soft as pure gold. Most people do not understand Moh's Hardness Scale, nor is the average reader likely to have any experience with pure iron or it's scratch resistance. Maybe we could say how pure platinum rates on Moh's Hardness Scale (4.0-4.5) then compare that with something that people might actually be familiar with: a pen-knife rates 5, a steel nail file rates 7 because it's a different kind of steel (harder but more brittle). The tensile strength of annealed pure platinum is 117 MPa, compared with 100 for gold, 170 for silver, 210 for copper, and 350 for iron. (Jewelry is usually annealed.) Zyxwv99 (talk) 17:48, 27 November 2013 (UTC)

What exactly is a "Native Deposit"?

Does their exist some ancient Cherokee tradition that involves storing platinum in one's bank account?

Seriously, I'm sure this article is an excellent read for a chemist, yet I doubt all too many chemists require Wikipedia to tell them stuff about platinum they likely already know anyway.

Well written article.

Too well written.

Care to dumb it down a good half dozen notches for those of us who aren't quite sure what a "μ" is, or even when a link is provided, are sent on very distracting little cyber-adventures to explain to us what an "isotope" is or how exactly a metal can be classified as the most laid back, relaxed, "least reactionary metals" of the bunch, only to be led to an article entitled Abundance of elements in Earth's crust (???)... ultimately just leading us to vanish into Wikipedia Bolivia having completely forgotten that we originally came here to find out about Latinum or something? 70.80.23.98 (talk) 12:36, 13 January 2013 (UTC)

A native deposit in this sense is a deposit of the metal in its elemental form. Native form more or less means pure. In other words, native copper is "pure" copper you can pound into a wire. This is in contrast to metal ores that require the metal to be "won" from its ore by reacting it with an acid, leaching it with a cyanide solution, or some other chemical process. Mu is a prefix that means "micro". I'm sure there are already fine articles on isotopes, but I'm afraid that just because someone would need to refer to them to comprehend the article does not justify making the article less useful for everyone else. Also, I am not, and probably most of us are not chemists. However, there are a number of math and physics articles that I find totally incomprehensible, so I understand where you're coming from. Geogene (talk) 19:53, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

Sudbury Deposits

The article establishes with a reliable source that concentrations in impact breccias, including Sudbury, are enriched in extraterrestrial platinum. Fair enough. But the same sentence says, or implies, that this same platinum is what is being mined today. That's not so. My understanding is that the platinum mined today originates from Precambrian magma intrusions underneath the impact structure, and is of terrestrial origin along with the other heavy metals being mined there. To claim that the platinum mined today is of extraterrestrial origin requires a source that specifically says so. Geogene (talk) 19:58, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 July 2014

"Because of its scarcity in the earth's crust, only a few hundred tonnes are produced annually, and is therefore highly valuable and is a major precious metal commodity."

both these statements are true, but in no way linked as you might think reading the above. being very rare doesn't necessarily lead to being valuable.

197.87.177.36 (talk) 11:24, 28 July 2014 (UTC)

 Done - but I'm not totally happy with my wording either, so someone may well change it again - Arjayay (talk) 18:24, 28 July 2014 (UTC)

Alchemical Symbol

The sun is the body of gold and the moon silver, but Neptune is platinum. The merging of the sun and moon is perhaps what was used before Neptune's discovery. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.203.140.218 (talk) 00:59, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

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Off-topic chat

Price Of Platinum Versus Gold For most of its comparatively much shorter history, platinum has been more valuable than gold. But recently platinum prices have fallen considerably behind those of gold. Doesn't that introduce a security risk, by enabling the relatively easy and very profitable (at current prices) faking of gold bullion, especially the larger bars? Since platinum is denser than gold, it can be combined with silver (say) to make an alloyed core that has the exact same density as gold, while being much cheaper. This core could then be encased in pure gold and the whole sold off as an ingot of high purity gold. Isn't this a concern? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.168.78.24 (talk) 07:37, 7 March 2018 (UTC) Answering my own question here: YES, it is (should be) a concern! See https://www.chards.co.uk/blog/fakes-forgeries-and-counterfeit-gold-coins-and-sovereigns/167 in the paragraph titled Platinum Forgeries, where the account is given of people falsifying gold coins in a similar manner (but using copper instead of silver as i suggested above), and note especially where it says that the practice only subsided when platinum's price rose close to or above that of gold. Now, if it can be done, to a profit, with coins, it can certainly be done, to a much larger profit, with gold bars and such. (Thanks to the anonymous user posting in the section Gold in the archive of this talk page for the link.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.168.78.24 (talk) 07:53, 7 March 2018 (UTC) Without reliable sources discussing this, there is nothing to add to the article. - SummerPhDv2.0 19:56, 10 April 2018 (UTC)

'Meter' versus 'Metre'

Hi folks,

Seeking consensus on whether the spelling of the meter link within the platinum article should be altered to reflect the spelling in the metre article. Please discuss.

picture on white background

would be easier to see it on a non-white background if someone wants to photoshop it 71.174.126.186 (talk) 09:35, 1 May 2019 (UTC)

"Plantium" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Plantium. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. Steel1943 (talk) 19:43, 20 September 2019 (UTC)

"Platnium" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Platnium. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. Steel1943 (talk) 19:47, 20 September 2019 (UTC)

"Plantinum" listed at Redirects for discussion

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European history

This section is a mess. It's confused, inconsistent, and the English is that of a 12-year old.

Iron

Granted, the name means "little silver." Is the element in fact stronger than pure iron in pure form? A trident of gold may in fact be ornamental as the element had yet to be discovered.

Granted the element's density, such a functional utensil, granted of characteristic thinness should be possible.

• • • WHAT??? *** — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.97.119.51 (talk) 22:26, 1 February 2020 (UTC)