Talk:Pink Taco

Daily show

Turned down? How could the daily show have been turned down? I just saw the clip. savidan^{(talk) (e@)} 06:32, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Thats what the news report said. But I guess you found out that they later granted an interview since you added information about the clip to the article. Copysan 17:50, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

I changed it to say that they were "initially" turned down. savidan^{(talk) (e@)} 18:20, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

original pink taco

Hello everyone. I am the James W. Sperman that originally founded the Pink Taco in Manhattan, Kansas. I felt it was important to share my rationale for editing this article on the Pink Taco.

There is a great conflation in the public consciousness between these distinct Pink Taco companies. Nothing makes this more apparent than the fact that practically everyone thinks there was just one Pink Taco (most of the people in my state (Kansas) think that Morton's west coast locales are simply part of my Pink Taco Inc, and I suspect that practically everyone whose first exposure to the Pink Taco was through Morton's version thinks that his is the only one).

Since what I made famous was the Pink Taco name (and not "James W. Sperman"), folks have no reason to search me out by my personal name. Many folks simply call up 'Pink Taco' and assume it's affiliated with me (as is quite understandable, since it has the same name, same pink taco shells, and same overall concept, while engaging the public in the same way and causing virtually identical responses). I'm quite tired of this confusion, and want to help alleviate it by posting the relevant publicly verifiable facts (along with links) in a public arena like this, thereby allowing people to vet the issue for themselves. I think people have a right to these facts, and I trust that they'll then be able to observe them and continue on their query in a more knowledgeable manner as they see fit.

Thanks, Jameswsperman 01:52, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

thanks for your valuable addition. I have two objections:

1. Currently the page is cumbersome and does not confrom to wikipedia standards. I can think of no good way to integrate information about both companies into a proper article. Perhaps we should split this article into two articles, one for Morton's company and one for the original Pink Taco? This page would then become a disambiguation page, which would have links to both pages. How does that sound?
2. Claims to the original Pink Taco must be verifiable. Please provide reliable sources. A OCR scan of an article that may or may not have existed hosted on a university with which you are affilliated is not a reliable source.

Copysan 06:48, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Hello again,

Let me address these 2 numbered thoughts in order:

1) I completely agree with this.

2) Are links to the archives of Manhattan's main paper (the Mercury) acceptable? I still have dozens of articles that I clipped at the time, so I went into the Mercury's archives and typed in my name and the title of the earliest story (I figured it would best date the issue). So I typed in 'Sperman' and 'Tacos by the Seat of Our Pants' (no, the papers never gave our articles endearing titles LOL). It did in fact call up the article. However, only a portion of the article is provided for free (there's a $1.95 charge to view entire archived articles).

The portion that is viewable confirms the address (1101 Moro in Aggieville--the name of Manhattan's bar district) and the opening date (10:30 AM on May 15, 1998). The viewable portion does not give my name (just "three former Kansas State University students" -- which is myself and the two friends I brought aboard as minority owners to be kitchen manager and personnel manager). However, the 'and' function used in the search guarantees that I'm in there: the automatic 'and' function of their archive search box is easily verified--as I just did--by simply adding another word to the string that is certain not to be in the article (such as "wikipedia"). Here's the link to what I'm talking about:

http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Archives?p_product=MM&p_theme=mm&p_action=search&p_maxdocs=200&s_dispstring=sperman%20tacos%20by%20the%20seat%20of%20our%20pants%20AND%20date(all)&p_field_advanced-0=&p_text_advanced-0=(sperman%20tacos%20by%20the%20seat%20of%20our%20pants)&xcal_numdocs=20&p_perpage=10&p_sort=_rank_:D&xcal_ranksort=4&xcal_useweights=yes

Here's the link to the archive search page to conduct your own searches: http://www.themercury.com/help/archive/

Also, a search for just "Pink Taco" in the archives yields portions of articles that do show my name as owner, as seen in #2 here: http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Archives?p_product=MM&p_theme=mm&p_action=search&p_maxdocs=200&s_dispstring=%22pink%20taco%22%20AND%20date(all)&p_field_advanced-0=&p_text_advanced-0=(%22pink%20taco%22)&xcal_numdocs=20&p_perpage=10&p_sort=_rank_:D&xcal_ranksort=4&xcal_useweights=yes

Finally, even though I stepped down as President and sold my ownership in the restaurant after just 3 months (coinciding with a sign change to "Bordertown Cantina"), the company's real name remained Pink Taco Inc for years (though it was 'Doing Business As (dba) "Bordertown Cantina" and later "Mini's Diner" in Manhattan). Importantly, I retained the merchandising rights for the Pink Taco brand and continued to sell lines of merchandise both individually and through the location.

Jameswsperman 00:10, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Can anybody with newspaper database access verify this? Also, @ User:Jameswsperman, you said that you recieved national media coverage. Could you provide dates of broadcast/print and what news media outlets? Newspapers would be best. It would also be best if you could write proper citations for the above articles, since you are obviously more familiar with the nature of these articles, please see WP:CITET. Copysan 06:24, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Proposal Given that

1. There appear to be no sources that would make James notable;
2. There appear to be no sources that imply a connection between James's restaurant and Morton's;
3. James has supplied sources that indicate that, perhaps, his restaurant is notable;
4. All information about James's Pink Taco restaurant that James added to Pink Taco is already in James W. Sperman;

we should

1. Move James W. Sperman to Pink Taco (Manhattan, Kansas);
2. Refactor Pink Taco (Manhattan, Kansas) as being about James's restaurant, not about him, and remove all autobiographical content;
3. Revert Pink Taco to the version just before James edited it.

Further, as Morton's restaurant is probably much more sought after by readers than James's restaurant, I don't think we need a disambiguation page. We could just insert a disambiguation note at the top of Pink Taco advising the reader to "See also Pink Taco (Manhattan, Kansas)" or something like that. Pan Dan 11:18, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Hi,

I'm perfectly fine with consolidating the "James W. Sperman" page into the "original Pink Taco (Manhattan)" page as suggested above, especially since the content would be basically identical anyway (please check the updated "James W. Sperman" page to see what I mean). I also agree that an entire disambiguation page probably isn't necessary, since 1)perhaps 90% of folks are looking for Morton's, and 2)a simple disambiguation note up top would be tidier. I do think that there needs to be either an original/new distinction or a 1998/2000 opening date distinction in that notice.

On the subject of supplying links to national newspaper articles: I will begin searching online for these links, but it may take me several days. They're undoubtedly kept in archives, where kept at all, and it will take me some time to find them (I didn't clip the articles from other states, I just read them online by doing simple net searches back in 1998; I was aware of about a dozen (specifically in California, Wyoming, Colorado, and some Appalachian states). Anyway, I'll link them when I find them.

And thanks for being patient as I stumbled ignorantly through this process and made many mistakes. Jameswsperman 21:16, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

@Pan Dan, I like that suggestion. If nobody else objects in about 5-8 hours, I'll act on it, or somebody else can in the meantime. @Jameswsperman, I'll be sure to find a reliable source that gives Morton's Pink Taco a verifiable opening date. I also appreciate your continued efforts in finding sources. I also thank everybody involved for remaining civil. This collaborative effort between formerly opposed parties to create an accurate encyclopedia is what Wikipedia is all about. Copysan 20:53, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Done Copysan 05:12, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Hi, I just checked in and noticed that all mentions of my original Pink Taco have been removed. This seems contrary to how the discussion was going. Is this temporary or was some official decision made to revert it back to being solely about Morton's new PT with no disambiguation? (Or am I just missing something?) Jameswsperman 07:53, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Crap thats what I forgot. the dab link to the james w sperman article. Right now, since that article (and this subject of the original pink taco) is in AFD, I'll dab to that. Once the AFD is resolved, we can then move onto making a proper encyclopedia entry for both pink tacos. Within the article text there is no mention of the original pink taco because there is no verifiable and reliable source that tells of a connection between the two companies. I thought this was what was agreed upon. I was basically acting on Pan Dan's suggestions. Copysan 08:17, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Copysan, I just wasn't very clear. You are entirely right about the article and I was also in agreement with what you folks suggested. I knew the article itself would go back to its form before my edit--I was looking for the disambiguation notice. Sorry about the ambiguity ;)

Also, I just started reading through the WP:CITET link that you provided, and will provide an organized set of citations soon. Would it be best to post them here on the talk page? Off to bed Jameswsperman 10:05, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Any place is good, just notify me as to where they are located. Copysan 23:11, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Pink Taco (Manhattan) newspaper citations

All I found online are the 6 listed below, all of which are from the Manhattan Mercury's archives. I couldn't find any others floating around in other archives from around the country.

Something strange: i have links to an AP story about me in 2000 (concerning a school funding program I started) that has been stored in the archives of multiple papers, but when I check the AP's own archive for it, it's not there. That was really frustrating, because it deflated my hopes of finding the other AP stories about me stored neatly in the AP's archive. I was hoping that the AP archived all their stories, but obviously not. Oh well.

So I suggest we remove the word "national" from "national news" when making the Pink Taco (Manhattan) page, since the national nature of the news is not verifiable anymore. We'll probably also need to delete the (true) statement that "AP stories were sent out and picked up nationwide." Finally, I'm not hopeful about the verifiability of the CBS TV story (much less their request that we do their 30-minute morning show with them). Heck, I'm not even sure how to go about verifying such a thing from "The Land Before TiVo and YouTube." lol.

Anyway, here are the citations (listed in chronological order):

Goodson, Lori (May 15, 1998), "Tacos 'by the seat of our pants'", Manhattan Mercury {{citation}}: Check date values in: |date= (help).

Doyle, Geoffrey (May 18, 1998), "To the editor", Manhattan Mercury {{citation}}: Check date values in: |date= (help).

Brighton, Kristin (May 21, 1998), "Restaurant's name in realm of hate speech, pornography", Manhattan Mercury {{citation}}: Check date values in: |date= (help).

Sperman, James (May 25, 1998), "Restaurant critics' righteousness misplaced", Manhattan Mercury {{citation}}: Check date values in: |date= (help).

Miller, Carrie (July 27, 1998), "Pink is out, Border is in at taco place", Manhattan Mercury {{citation}}: Check date values in: |date= (help).

Goodson, Lori (March 5, 1999), "Bordertown's future is unclear", Manhattan Mercury {{citation}}: Check date values in: |date= (help). Jameswsperman 10:21, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Slogan problem

The Pink Taco (Manhattan), currently called "James W. Sperman", mentions a slogan that is not verifiable in any of the articles (slogan: "I got drunk and ate a pink taco"). I would suggest replacing that with another slogan ("unwrap it...spread it...sauce it...munch it") that is mentioned in one of the linked letters to the editor.

FWIW, somebody (don't know the person) even has that phrase (credited to the Manhattan PT) on his 'quotes' page: http://www.freewebs.com/loberto/quotes.html

I know it's not a reputable source, I just think it's interesting that this person considers the tail end of one of our radio commercials to be worthy of inclusion in his short list of mostly 'deep' quotes from extremely famous people. Jameswsperman 05:53, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Morton's opening date

Morton's first Pink Taco was in the Hard Rock Hotel/Casino in Las Vegas, so I went to the online archives of the Las Vegas Sun newspaper to look for the earliest Pink Taco story. Here's what I found:

May 30, 1999 -- "The Hard Rock Hotel recently expanded to 670 rooms and has added four new restaurants. Just days ago it opened a characteristically trendy Mexican food place [...] The Pink Taco." http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/sun/1999/may/30/508860108.html?%22pink%20taco%22

So it opened a few days before May 30, 1999. IMO, that's good enough support to just say that Morton's first Pink Taco opened in "May 1999" (one year after I opened the original Pink Taco in Manhattan on May 15, 1998).Jameswsperman 20:11, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Deletion of James W. Sperman article and new Pink Taco Manhattan article

Im not sure how to proceed now. It seems the community decided against the notability of the "original" Pink Taco article as well as the notability of the Sperman article, so Im not sure on how to proceed. Will somebody please advise? Copysan 07:32, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Now I'm really confused. I've been reading what I thought were all of the relevant dialogs, and I thought it was pretty unanimous among the folks that understood the distinction between the two companies that there should be a PT (Manhattan) article. The only folks I saw that were against it were the folks that seemed to be just quickly scanning the issue and wrongly assuming it was all one company (which, again, is the whole problem). Am I missing something? If those confused folks are in the majority, doesn't that just sharpen my point about the need for the disambiguation? Jameswsperman 08:31, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Copysan, I don't see where the community decided against the notability of the "original" Pink Taco article. Could you please help me find it? I'm having trouble finding a Pink Taco (Manhattan) article/discussion page, and the decision to delete the "James W. Sperman" page seems to be solely about that article (which we had all agreed should be deleted anyway), and is not an indictment against a Pink Taco (Manhattan) article. Jameswsperman 08:52, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Even though Pan Dan commented many times about the distinction between the two, the community ignroed the comments. They either think the comment lacks merit or they just dont read comments. Copysan

Fair use rationale for Image:PinkTaco.png

Image:PinkTaco.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 14:52, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Done Copysan (talk) 23:14, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

WP:FOOD Tagging

This article talk page was automatically added with {{WikiProject Food and drink}} banner as it falls under Category:Restaurants or one of its subcategories. If you find this addition an error, Kindly undo the changes and update the inappropriate categories if needed. You can find the related request for tagging here -- TinucherianBot (talk) 10:45, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

century city donkey incident

I don't doubt the owner made the pledge not to use live animals, we need to find what wikipedia calls a reliable source stating that. That would be like a newspaper or magazine article. Blogs like those found on the PETA website generally aren't sufficient. You could search the archives of some local newspaper websites, or perhaps the people at PETA have a file of press coverage.

If PETA makes an official statement (e.g. press release), we could reference that too. We'd just have to say "According to PETA..." Gerardw 12:49, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

I doubt PETA is or ever will be considered reliable. By definition, they're a biased source. Even if they make an official statement, that would still apply.HalfShadow 02:43, 11 May 2011 (UTC)

• I am inclined to agree. --John (talk) 02:53, 11 May 2011 (UTC)

"Live animal controversy" is not a sufficiently descriptive subheading because it lacks meaning ( i.e., there is no controversy about whether or not the animal was alive). Something like "Animal abuse controversy" would be much more descriptive since the controversy was over whether or not an animal was being abused. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.233.78.19 (talk) 17:30, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

Our WP:NPOV policy is that titles should be neutral. Titles such as "Animal abuse controversy" or "Overwrought hysteria over publicity stunt" are not appropriate. Gerardw (talk) 22:15, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

"Animal abuse controversy" describes the content much better the "Live animal controversy," and it does not violate the WP:NPOV policy. The controversy at hand is about whether or not an animal was abused, and the fact that the word "controversy" appears in the heading shows neutrality. If the subheading was simply "animal abuse," then you could argue that it's not neutral. As it is, Animal abuse controversy is a much better subheading. 76.91.176.234 (talk) 20:22, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

I think that using the word 'abuse' is to visceral and emotive and theres no discernable advantage to it's use. Both "live animal controversy" and "animal abuse controversy" mean essentially the same thing but one clearly draws the eye in a way which might give undue weight to the accusations. Regards, Bob House 884 (talk) 20:37, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for your comment on the emotive nature of the word. However, I must point out that there are many article in Wikipedia that use the term "abuse" in their title. Should articles on Elderly Abuse or Church Abuse change their titles because the word draws on emotions? Furthermore, the Wikipedia article on Animal Abuse actually has the title of Animal Cruelty, which is a much more emotive word. Finally, the Wikipedia article on animal abuse holds that "Cruelty to animals or animal abuse is the infliction of suffering or harm upon animals, other than humans, for purposes other than self-defense." As such, Animal abuse controversy is a much better subheading in this case. In any case, the word "controversy" clearly indicates a neutral point of view about the argument at hand. Pangurban1 (talk) 21:09, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

I don't have any objection to the use of the word 'abuse' per se, it's just that there is no advantage to its use over the current title. For an example which I think is fair - suppose a politician was accused of ballot stuffing to win an election and we can choose between two titles for the subheading - either "Electoral fraud controversy" or "Election results controversy", both are relatively accurate and neither is horribly non-neutral, but theres no tangible advantage (in terms of reader understanding or readability) to using 'fraud' rather than 'results' which I'm sure you'd agree is a more emotive term. Therefore I don't think its really right to make the change. Regards Bob House 884 (talk) 22:13, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

I like your analogy, but I respectfully disagree because the example you use doesn't illustrate the situation at hand. In your example, the two titles do indeed carry the same meaning, but in the Pink Taco situation, Live Animal Controversy is meaningless. I could, for example, give you another analogy. Let's say the establishment had abused an elderly person as part of their promotion. Would we call the topic Live Elderly Controversy? I don't have any doubt that we'd call it Elderly Abuse Controversy. In any case, I have no particular attachment to the word "abuse" either, but I would like to see a more descriptive title than what we have. All of our debate seems pointless anyway because the article has been locked down and changes can't be made. An abuse of power by someone to clamp down like that, but that's just my opinion. Maybe the page was getting vandalized, I don't know. Anyway, I hope you have a great day! Pangurban1 (talk) 16:39, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Where does the sentence "spokesman for the animal rental company said the animal was treated fairly and two trainers were on site to care for it" come from. I see no citations for the source.Pangurban1 (talk) 20:32, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

Source says "We take exceptional care of our animals," the company said in a statement to KTLA. "The paint was a non toxic breathable paint and the donkey was shaved. The donkey was to be given many breaks and two trainers were there to ensure [its] safety. She had ample water at all times. We love our animals." Gerardw (talk) 20:53, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

Where is this statement available publicly? Would you please add a citation make your source verifiable? Pangurban1 (talk) 21:01, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

Oh, nevermind, I see that it is there now.Pangurban1 (talk) 21:03, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

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