Talk:Pills n Potions

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved. Jenks24 (talk) 11:32, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

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Pills N Potions → Pills n Potions – I tried moving the page to this title, but was immediately reverted by User:JACUBANHELADO, with the reason, "The song is titled with a CAPITAL 'N'." Wikipedia's MOS occasionally requires us to title songs, albums, and other projects differently than the artist intends them and/or the label lists them at retail – "Tik Tok" ("TiK ToK"), Artpop (ARTPOP), and Prism (PRISM) being just a few examples of this. MOS:CT, which I cited when making the move, states that short coordinating conjunctions ("and, but, or, nor; also for, yet, so when used as conjunctions") should not be capitalized when titling works. "n" in this song, while not a proper word, (update: see my comment dated 22:14, 20 June 2014 (UTC)) is short for "and" and is thus a coordinating conjunction under four letters. Other articles of songs whose titles include variations of short coordinating conjunctions ("Hot n Cold", "Rock n Roll", "In da Club", "Rock wit U (Awww Baby)", etc.) are titled accordingly with these varied conjunctions uncapitalized, and it should be here as well. Relisted. Jenks24 (talk) 11:24, 21 June 2014 (UTC) –Chase (talk / contribs) 03:25, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

Oppose Chase, I can understand the move you have requested. But, if the artist intended the song to be stylised that way and that's how it is being cited in all reliable sources on this page, it would seem unnecessary. KaneZolanski (talk) 11:32, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

Oppose. (Changed to Support per discussion below.) I see the point of Chasewc91, but in this case "N" should not be treated as a short conjunction, as it is not a proper word. Per WP:COMMONNAME, the song is called "Pills N Potions" in all reliable sources. The current article for "Hot n Cold" is also titled wrong in my opinion, and if this request fails, I'd propose a move of "Hot n Cold" to "Hot 'N Cold", which is its common name. (see e.g. Guns N' Roses) 2Flows (talk) 20:27, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

COMMONNAME doesn't apply here. It applies to instances where a work is officially titled one thing but better known as another; see the examples. It doesn't apply to capitalization which Wikipedia has a Manual of Style for. –Chase (talk / contribs) 23:49, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

Kesha is an example of this; despite being commonly known as Ke$ha, it was decided to title her article without a dollar sign per MOS in numerous discussions. –Chase (talk / contribs) 23:51, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

Similar discussion has been held several times about Guns N' Roses, where some users wanted to move it to "Guns n' Roses" due to MOS:CT. However, consensus has been that capital N is used, mostly due to WP:COMMONNAME. I'll use some quotes from these discussions: "Per Common usage, mainstream press capitalizes the N -- our guidelines are not meant to be applied robotically with an absence of common sense." and also: "Under WP:NAME, the precedent is to give the most commonly used and accepted spelling of proper names of people and things, regardless of how they sit with grammar." 2Flows (talk) 01:51, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

Spelling ≠ capitalization. Many mainstream sources also capitalize words such as "on" and "with" in titles of works that are uncapitalized in their Wikipedia article titles due to MOS. Also, could you please cite examples other than Guns n Roses? From what I have seen (the multiple examples I have already cited and many others), it is usually the norm to follow MOS regardless of capitalization in reliable sources. –Chase (talk / contribs) 22:48, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

I agree we should follow MOS:T, which states that "every word except for articles, short coordinating conjunctions, or short prepositions is capitalized". However, words such as "N", "Da", "Wit" etc. are not real English words, and as such would not fall in the above category (in my opinion). MOS:CT does not explicitly state guidelines for such contractions or alternative spelling of conjunctions, articles and prepositions and a general discussion on the subject at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Capital letters would be useful. 2Flows (talk) 22:47, 19 June 2014 (UTC)

Technically, "n" is recognized as a conjunction in the dictionary. So in this case, the rule would clearly apply. –Chase (talk / contribs) 22:14, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

I'm surprised to see "n" listed as a conjunction in the dictionary (also in Cambridge [1]). In that case I agree MOS:CT applies and I'll change my vote to support. 2Flows (talk) 19:08, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

External links modified

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• Added archive https://web.archive.org/20141125070401/https://itunes.apple.com/gb/album/pills-n-potions-single/id880907738 to https://itunes.apple.com/gb/album/pills-n-potions-single/id880907738

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