Talk:Philippine Senate investigation of Apollo Quiboloy

Wikipedia is not a news website

@Hariboneagle927: Wikipedia is not a news website, nor should it be documenting a current hearing proceedings, and any likely future developments, before the Philipine Senate committee has issued its report and we know what the outcome is. Part of the issue is that this senate hearing is a current event that is investigating criminal matters that are part of a bigger picture in relation to the parties involved. To be notable, this article about these hearings needs to demonstrate that the hearing, itself, is going to have much more than just routine coverage in the news media. Any coverage that this hearing gets needs to be in-depth, persistent and diverse as well as having some sort of lasting effect in the future. We cannot say if this will happen at the moment. I think it is speculative to confine this article to just being about the hearing, itself, which the title does, and bank on these hearings being considered notable, as this normally takes some time (months or years) to determine. Wikipedia normally writes articles about notable crimes against victims; such articles focus on the crime, not the investigation or court hearings. Also, alleging that a suspect who is accused of criminal offences needs to be carefully phrased so that is is clear who is making the allegations and that the accused person is presumed innocent until convicted of the crime(s) by a court of law. Rather than write about these proceedings it might be better to merge the content of this article into the one about the Kingdom of Jesus Christ or write a specific article about the violence concerned, which could be called something like Assault of Kingdom of Jesus Christ church members. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 22:40, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

Requested move 25 August 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved to Philippine Senate investigation of Apollo Quiboloy. There is consensus on the alternate proposed title, taking into account of Howard the Duck's suggestion and intersecting with WP:ALLEGED. – robertsky (talk) 06:29, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

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Philippine Senate hearing on the Kingdom of Jesus Christ → Philippine Senate hearing on alleged Kingdom of Jesus Christ abuses – Per WP:PRECISE, as the hearing was specifically about abuses within the organization, not the organization itself. The necessity of including the word "alleged" is per WP:NPOVTITLE; this passes the WP:NDESC rule on use of that word, as there is an actual accusation. Bagoto (talk) 12:07, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject Politics, WikiProject Religion, WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography, WikiProject Christianity/Noticeboard, Tambayan Philippines, and WikiProject Religion/New religious movements work group have been notified of this discussion. HueMan1 (talk) 14:20, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

• Support this or a similar name. Maybe it would be slightly better as "Philippine Senate hearings on alleged abuses by the Kingdom of Jesus Christ"? Putting "alleged" and "abuses" together makes it a bit more clear what is being alleged. "Hearings" should be plural as there were three of them. --DanielRigal (talk) 17:32, 30 August 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose suggestion, support move to "Philippine Senate hearings on alleged abuses of Apollo Quiboloy". Quiboloy is the one being sought after, not his denomination. Although undistinguishable superfically, hearings and arrest warrants are spoecifically directed to the person and not to the organization. There were also multi[ple hearings, not just one. Howard the Duck (talk) 22:20, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

  Could also be convinced of expanding the scope of the article to Quiboloy's alleged criminal acts. Howard the Duck (talk) 23:17, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

• Philippine Senate investigation of Apollo Quiboloy would be a better title. This doesn't assume guilt or innocence and more accurately describes the proceedings, which is an investigation. The natural outcome of the investigation is assumed in the new title, regardless of that outcome, so it is more neutral. "Investigation" (and to a lesser degree "inquiry") are very commonly used to describe the proceedings. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 00:45, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

  Yeah, I'd be ok with this, or even a bigger scope of including other bodies that are investigating Quiboloy by making it Criminal cases against Apollo Quiboloy. Howard the Duck (talk) 15:49, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

• "Philippine Senate hearings/investigation on/of alleged abuses in the Kingdom of Jesus Christ (church/sect)" does sound better. It should be "KoJC", not just "Apollo Quiboloy", as there were other pastors mentioned in the investigation as well as other KoJC members who would commit misinformation/disinformation acts in support of their leaders. And perhaps "in" instead of "of" or "by", to say that these alleged crimes were not being committed by the church but inside the church by some church nembers. Bagoto (talk) 09:00, 31 August 2024 (UTC)
• Support Philippine Senate investigation of Apollo Quiboloy per Dennis Brown, seem overall a better title. In any case, I'd oppose the addition of alleged, per MOS:ALLEGED. There is no need to include that - the inclusion of "abuses" in the title does not ipso facto mean we're saying such abuses occurred.  — Amakuru (talk) 15:22, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.