Talk:People's Army of Vietnam/Archive 1

Archive 1

Comment

- This article reads like a propaganda piece more than it does an encyclopedia article. Fernando Rizo 04:57, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Wikification

I'm going to start wikification; see what you think. --CDN99 01:51, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)

• Definitely a good start, CDN. I'll pitch in later on tonight. -Fernando Rizo 02:27, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)

To: Fernando Rizo

If you thought this aricle was a propaganda piece, why didn't you edit it to make it more objective and factual?

Also, do you think the article about the US Army is also a propaganda piece? If not, what is the difference? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.0.80.64 (talk • contribs)

Anyone ele think there's a lot of pathos in that first paragraph? That it should only be a proper introduction and maybe some of that business about the mistakes in naming could be moved to another section? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.52.163.59 (talk • contribs)

I don't think so. It reads as pretty emotionally neutral to me, and corrects one of the most common misconceptions about the topic. I know I was looking for info on the Viet Cong when I came here, and I might have been seriously confused for quite some time if it hadn't been in the first paragraph. -Toptomcat 14:47, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Repayment in kind

Carrying out the activities of “repayment in kind” and assistance to comrades and the people

During the wars of national liberation and for the defense of the country, millions of Vietnamese cadres and soldiers of the Vietnamese People’s Army have died or left part of their flesh and blood on the battlefields. In line with the confucian moral philosophy “When drinking water, remember the source”, over the past decades, especially after the reunification of the country, the Vietnamese People’s Army has established special action teams which have climbed many mountains and crossed many rivers to all corners of the country and to some localities in Laos and Cambodia to search for and exhume the remains of our deceased soldiers and then relocate them to be buried in our country, meeting the aspirations of the relatives of the martyrs and lessening the pain caused by war. Being an army which is of the people, by the people and for the people, the Vietnamese People’s Army has always been loyal to the people. During the last years, together with the tasks of training and combat readiness, the Vietnamese People’s Army has been conducting the tasks of propagation and mobilization of the people aimed at successfully implementing the guidelines of the Party, abiding by the policies and laws of the Government and attaching importance to the building of an all-people’s national defence.

“When drinking water, remember the source"

Takima 00:58, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Engaging in productive activities

Over the past sixty years of fighting, building, and growing, the Vietnamese People’s Army has always attached importance to the tasks of engaging in productive labor and developing the national economy. Under the severe conditions of the past wars, units of the Armed Forces actively joined in productive labor, producing especially food, foodstuffs, and consumer goods in order to improve living standards and contribute to ensuring that they could fight and win. Under the conditions of peace, the Vietnamese People’s Army has determined that engaging in production and helping to develop the national economy are strategic tasks aimed at closely combining national defense and the economy and combining the economy with national defense, thus making a contribution to bringing the cause of industrialization and modernization to victory and firmly defending the socialist Motherland of Viet Nam. During the past years, besides carrying out the task of engaging in productive labor in order to improve living standards, the Vietnamese People’s Army has participated in economic development in many fields, namely industry, agriculture, forestry, fishing, transport, capital construction, and post and telecommunications, in which it has exerted much of its efforts in the construction of many important economic projects, such as the Hoa Binh hydroelectric power plant, the trans-Vietnam 500 KV power line, and the Ho Chi Minh Highway for the support of national industrialization and modernization.

Units of the Vietnamese People’s Army participating in economic development have become a mission force which performs difficult and arduous tasks in restoring and developing the national economy and in reclaiming land in remote areas, border areas, and on islands. The participation of the Vietnamese People’s Army in economic development has brought about concrete effects on socio-economic development and the consolidation of national defense and security and has contributed to the strengthening of the defense industry. Some joint economic-defense zones built by the armed forces have become archetypal models for the adjustment and rearrangement of population areas at the national level, especially in border areas and on islands. By utilizing used military technical equipment to meet in part the demands of national welfare and the people’s livelihood a wide range of products manufactured by national defense factories are of high quality and satisfy the needs of domestic consumption and export, contributing to the growth of the national economy and balancing the state budget earmarked for defense. From the efficient earnings generated by productive labor and economic development the living standards of the cadre and soldiers of the Vietnamese People’s Army have improved with each passing day. Through the effects of productive labor and economic development, the image of Uncle Ho’s soldiers in the forefront of national construction with the aim of building “a rich people, a strong country, and a civilized, democratic, and equitable society” has gone into the mind of the Vietnamese people.

Takima 01:25, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Born in the jungle

People's Army of Vietnam (PAVN) includes Ground Forces, Navy, and Air Force and Coast Guard. The 60th Anniversary of the Founding of Vietnamese People’s Army and the 15th Anniversary of All-People’s National Defense Day of Vietnam (December 22nd 1944 – December 22nd 2004) December 22nd 1944 has been taken to be Vietnamese People’s Army Day. It was the founding day of the “Armed Propaganda Unit of the Liberation Army”, the first regular force of the Revolution, under the directive of the late President Ho Chi Minh. http://vietcongfr.chez-alice.fr/images/timeline/general-vo-nguyen-giap-reviewing-troops-1951.jpg

Carrying on and heightening the military tradition of the nation, relying on the strength of the people and people’s war in Vietnam, and on the solidarity and assistance of friendly countries’ peoples and armies, the Vietnamese, undergoing the process of fighting and building up their strength at the same time, have grown from small to large units. The more it fights, the stronger it becomes, achieving ever-greater successes and growing stronger by leaps.

The fighting power of the Vietnamese People’s Army manifested in resistance wars against foreign aggressors has taken its source from politico-ideological consciousness, from the unanimity of objective and ideal being fought for, from the unity between the Army and the people and between officers and soldiers, from bravery and wisdom in fighting, and from creative dynamism in the use of weapons and technical equipment suitable to the Vietnamese military arts and the battleground. Since the country embarked upon a period of peace and construction, the Vietnamese People’s Army has continued to display its fine traditions and nature and has always faithfully fulfilled its function as an army ready for combat as well as for work and production worthy of the late President Ho Chi Minh’s praise:

• "[…] Our Army, loyal to the Party, pious to the people, and ready to fight and sacrifice their lives for the Homeland’s independence and freedom, for socialism, will fulfill any task, cross over any difficulty, and defeat any enemy”. http://www.country-data.com/frd/cs/vietnam/vn05_02a.jpg

Takima 14:57, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Military Philosophy and History

Go to the French Text I've put. http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arm%C3%A9e_Populaire_Vietnamienne.

Takima 17:16, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Naval Infantry or Marines

What is the current Vietnamese/VPA term for "naval infantry"? There is a space that needs to be translated in the terminology of ranks on the page. The armed forces of the former South Vietnam (ARVN) had the term "thuy quan luc chien" for their "marines", but I doubt the VPA uses that term for their present equivalent. Le Anh-Huy 03:32, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

I think the VPA has no marine corp.Hawkie 19:00, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

The Vietnam People's Navy does have naval infantry (marines) equipped with BTR-60, PT-76 and other weapons manufactured in Vietnam. They are stationed in the Truong Sa Islands. I'll add more pictures in the Vietnam People's Navy page real soon.Canpark 15:40, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

I think they call these soldiers "đặc công nước", which means "naval commando" I guess.Hawkie 05:32, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

No, they are called "hải quân đánh bộ". This force was also used during amphibious landings on Cambodian shores to challenge Khmer Rouge in the '80s.

While in the militia, I handled conscription paperwork. I found that there is sub-branch in the Navy force that serve as main infantry. Basically they are ground force but wearing Navy's uniform. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 171.253.196.69 (talk) 10:05, 6 April 2019 (UTC)

PAVN Army

I think the PAVN article should be deleted instead, its information are irrelevantCanpark 03:15, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:QDNDVN Howitzer2.jpg

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BetacommandBot (talk) 07:03, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:KQNDVN SA-3q.jpg

Image:KQNDVN SA-3q.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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Senior General

• Võ Nguyên Giáp (1948)
• Nguyễn Chí Thanh (1959)
• Văn Tiến Dũng 1974
• Hoàng Văn Thái 1980
• Chu Huy Mân 1982
• Lê Trọng Tấn 1984
• Lê Đức Anh 1984
• Nguyễn Quyết
• Đoàn Khuê
• Phạm Văn Trà
• Phùng Quang Thanh
• Lê Văn Dũng. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.187.71.169 (talk) 07:13, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

History

This section is sorely lacking, someone please beef it up a bit. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.165.177.151 (talk) 02:01, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

American Weaponary

It may not be possible that some of the American infantry weapons metioned in the article may still be in use by Vietnamese Army. The lack of spare parts and ammo in old weapons like the M1 Garand, M1 Carbine.--Coffeekid (talk) 22:56, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

The Vietnam militia branch still uses M16A1s and M14s. We keep them in good condition. I issued a M16A1 myself, it had pinpoint accuracy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Karus91 (talk • contribs) 10:15, 6 April 2019 (UTC)

Still in Service American Weaponary

Could some one find a source if Vietnam still uses M16, M14, M2, M60, M1911--Coffeekid (talk) 22:56, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

They did manufacture and operate the M18, a indigenous upgraded version of the XM177E2 version of the M16 in Self-defence-forces stationed in the Southern border and the Navy. Also the M79 was widely used among VPA's troops, for it's rugged chassis could compare to the legendary AK-47 itself, also it has proved to be a good infantry support weapon. Pictures for two of these are quite many and could be found on the Internet.

During 1979-1990, there's a rumour that the VPA's have improvised the disposable M72 launcher, replace the firing mechanism so that one launcher could be used about 1500-2000 times, replace the old warheads with napalm warheads from M202 FLASH since the weapon was too heavy for troops to carry. Those M72 was used in Cambodia with devastating effect. But I could only find a picture taken in a museum which shown that the VPA used the M72 but I cannot confirm whether they were "modded" or not.

The M14 was also used by local militia, mostly in the Southern part of the country. M2 Browning and M60 seen brief service in the Vietnamese-Cambodia War

No infomation on the M1911

I should say that Vietnam has full capabilities to manufacture and maintain those weapon. Zeraful (talk)

T72?

Did any Vietnam or other sources that officially claimed that Vietnam operated the T72 ? Zeraful (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 16:10, 24 October 2011 (UTC).

Small arms

Does Vietnam use the Makarov PM? 71.58.198.190 (talk) 22:27, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

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Language/Rewrite of Second and Third Paragraphs==

Could someone who can construct a coherent English sentence and who is knowledgeable on the subject rewrite the second and third paragraphs? Sounds like some Vietnamese went wild with Google Translate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.239.217.54 (talk) 07:40, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

Citations

I think the whole article has been sourced, so the last change that was made in this article[1] should be explained. Bladesmulti (talk) 15:09, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

Requested move 05 October 2013

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was moved. --BDD (talk) 23:05, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

Vietnam People's Army → People's Army of Vietnam – Much more common. See this Ngram. Relisted. Favonian (talk) 17:39, 12 October 2013 (UTC). Srnec (talk) 16:38, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

• Support I've always seen it as "PAVN". See Britannica. Epaminondas of Thebes (talk) 22:20, 5 October 2013 (UTC) !vote by sockpuppet of community banned user struck. Favonian (talk) 15:39, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

• Support; the impermissible vote above has the basic issue right: This entity is better known as "PAVN" than by any full name; we might as well move the article to the term that "PAVN" stands for. I would support moving to just PAVN as well (it currently redirects here), but I don't believe there will be general support for that. 168.12.253.66 (talk) 21:06, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

New Article

Can it be written a seperate article about Army of North Vietnam that existed from 1954 to 1975? Referring only activities and structures of North Vietnamese army which was called NVA back then? Just like we have a separete article about Army of South Vietnam?Ovsek (talk) 06:36, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

Relationship with Viet Cong

At the risk of using the "p" word (in this case "propaganda"), the bit in the intro about the relationship between the North Vietnamese Army and the Viet Cong smacks of being an ex post facto explanation of the war (and the legitimacy of the Party in the south) that has more to do with current sensibilities than with an accurate appraisal of history. To be sure, post-Tet, the Viet Cong was increasingly subordinated to the North Vietnamese, but before that could often be strikingly independent. That is not to say that there wasn't long-standing coordination between the two, but there were also serious differences between them as well. Besides that, the North Vietnamese Army was called the North Vietnamese Army because it was the army of North Vietnam, not as some manner of public relations exercise (akin to the CPV during the Korean War) for the benefit of the press and the United States military. Indeed, this exaggerated picture of Communist unity serves to undermine the very existence of the Republic of Vietnam as a sovereign entity, which is, perhaps, debatable, but as such seems rather unencyclopedic at the moment.--172.162.241.45 (talk) 05:41, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

Armed forces of Party

As in all Communist states, the armed forces are under the party, not the state. Therefore is it not technically wrong to state that the "Vietnam People's Army (VPA), also known as the Vietnamese People's Army and the People's Army of Vietnam, is the armed forces of the Socialist Republic of Vietnam."125.237.105.102 (talk) 11:31, 27 September 2014 (UTC)

This is actually confirmed in the Central Military Commission of the Communist Party of Vietnam article which states "The Statute of the Communist Party of Vietnam says that the Vietnam People's Army (VPA) is "under the party's absolute, direct, comprehensive leadership"." So the country of Vietnam doesn't have any de jure military. --Hoang the Hoangest (talk) 07:44, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

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What a unique name

People's Army of Vietnam — Preceding unsigned comment added by 42.113.167.10 (talk) 17:04, 22 April 2016 (UTC)

Removing NATO map symbols

In the Main Force section NATO Map Symbols are used beside the units' names, this is wrong for several reasons: first they are MAP symbols, to be used on maps. Second they are mostly WRONG, the symbol for an infantry unit is used for all kinds of units. Third they are not needed, they add nothing because the name, size and type of unit is written out. Fourth it is not the convention on wiki articles to use them when listing units. So for all these reasons I am removing them. --DelftUser (talk) 17:26, 21 January 2017 (UTC)

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Lol "people army" talk like everyone 'volunteer' to this. It is Conscription, a man is force to join an army army to fight and die without his free will

This is disgusting really. Namzosua35 (talk) 21:58, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

WP:NOTAFORUM; if you would like to request a page move you may do so, but WP:COMMONNAME applies.TheTimesAreAChanging (talk) 02:04, 29 August 2021 (UTC)

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Re-title (move) the page to "Vietnam People's Army" ?!

Hi, I realized that the name Vietnamese/Vietnam People's Army (VPA) is indeed better known than the name People's Army of Vietnam (PAVN), and in fact, the Vietnamese Ministry of National Defence also uses the name "Vietnam People's Army/VPA" to call the current Vietnamese military force and never mentions PAVN once (see Viet MoD's page talking about VPA).
In my opinion, Vietnam People's Army should be a better title for the page instead of the People's Army of Vietnam as it is more popular and more 'official', as well as this name is better satisfying WP:COMMONNAME

--Hwi.padam (talk) 20:34, 20 March 2022 (UTC)

Vietnamese/Vietnam People's Army (VPA) or People's Army of Vietnam (PAVN)

U.S. Army used PAVN or NVA throughout their documents https://history.army.mil/html/reference/army_flag/vn.html

VPA is used mainly by Vietnamese government in recent years. Leemyongpak (talk) 10:43, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

Prove it. Mztourist (talk) 11:12, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

I just reopen a concern of User:Hwi.padam on March 20, he realized that the name Vietnamese/Vietnam People's Army (VPA) is indeed better known than the name People's Army of Vietnam (PAVN). Leemyongpak (talk) 11:42, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

Neither they, nor you, have given any RS that supports that assertion. Mztourist (talk) 12:05, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

I provided a link that contains dozen articles with NVA inside.

Providing RS for VPA is Hwi.padam responsibility, not mine. Leemyongpak (talk) 12:35, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

About the popularity: it is a general assumption from the social media that I have seen many accounts prefer to use VPA to PAVN. Yes, it sounds indeed objective, but I believe that it still satisfies WP:COMMONNAME

About the official state's designation:

• VPA from the government (Vietnamese Ministry of National Defence): [2] (the Viet MoD's server is not stable that you may not be able to enter the site at once, you can wait for a few seconds and then refresh if you desperately want to have a look)
• VPA from the Communist Party of Vietnam: [3] [4]
• VPA from the English-Online edition of the People's Army Newspaper (PANO - practically the official press of the Vietnam People's Armed Forces which is under the governing of the Vietnamese Central Military Commission and the Vietnamese Ministry of National Defence): [5] [6] [7]
  Hwi.padam (talk) 20:20, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

All six sources are from Vietnamese government.

U.S.Army have used NVA, PAVN, VC throughout their Vietnam war related documents https://history.army.mil/html/bookshelves/resmat/vietnam/Resources01/Books_and_Documents/sec01.html

Western politician and journalist still use NVA in 1994 and 2006 in a book and an interview with two notable Vietnamese general Võ Nguyên Giáp and Trần Văn Trà respectively.

PAVN is a over 20-years-old-historical name so simply replace it by quite new name VPA will affect a lot of Vietnam war's articles. We need a safer way to implement VPA name. Leemyongpak (talk) 01:33, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

No "a general assumption from the social media that I have seen many accounts prefer to use VPA to PAVN" doesn't satisfy Commonname. You have largely cited Vietnamese sources and obviously those then get translated into English so the results aren't correct. Almost all Vietnam War pages on WP use PAVN and there is no consensus for change. Why are you trying to push your personal preferences through on issues like this? Don't you have anything more productive to do? Mztourist (talk) 10:57, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

For me, Translating historic events and characters native-language sources to English then add needed citations is much more Constructive then Deleting article, removing flag, removing honorific word. I'm familiar with the way you deny to share other members perspective so just let User:Hwi.padam finish what he started, as usual. See you in the next consensus. Leemyongpak (talk) 00:50, 5 April 2022 (UTC)

This place is getting meaningless, so I decided to withdraw from this consensus and leave this issue for a better day. Thank you for your meaningful opinions and contributions.
Hwi.padam (talk) 02:35, 5 April 2022 (UTC)

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Ground Forces

Anyone viewing this, please add a article for today's Vietnam Ground Forces. I can't do it because I don't have access to that info. Faithful15 (talk) 19:14, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

I need help how do i add a new source?

My source for the Insurgency in Laos ending is this : https://web.archive.org/web/20230111120320/https://www.rfa.org/english/news/laos/clash-03182021163834.html but it broke the entire page so i didn’t do it, how can i fix it? 175.100.20.210 (talk) 15:06, 28 July 2023 (UTC)