Talk:Pearl and Hermes Atoll/Archive 1

Archive 1

Untitled

I removed the Lagoons category (which I had added yesterday) and added the Pacific Ocean atolls category because atolls are defined as enclosing a lagoon. -- Dalbury^(Talk) 22:00, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was move. —Nightstallion (?) 11:37, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Requested move

Pearl and Hermes Reef → Pearl and Hermes Atoll – {Used more often, refers to whole atoll, not just reef, a part of an atoll. How it appears on maps} ----

Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one-sentence explanation, then sign your opinion with quadruple tildes.

• Indifferent since both atoll and reef are both used often to refer to this geographic feature. joturner 05:25, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
• Oppose until references are cited. (and not Google hits) AjaxSmack 07:25, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Official government sources are good enough for me. —Nightstallion (?) 11:37, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Pearl and Hermes Atoll/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

First of all, separate into sections: Intro, then history, then ecology. History needs to include discovery, all subsequent explorations and/or shipwrecks, exploitation by pearl fishers, and subsequent conservation attempts. Ecology section should include all relevant species that live here. SeanMD80talk | contribs 02:20, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Last edited at 02:20, 23 March 2008 (UTC). Substituted at 02:32, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

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GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Pearl and Hermes Atoll/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Ceranthor (talk · contribs) 19:15, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

I'll be reviewing this in the next few days. ceranthor 19:15, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

Lead

• "The Pearl and Hermes Atoll (Hawaiian: Holoikauaua)," - why the comma after the Hawaiian?
• "The Pearl and Hermes Atoll (Hawaiian: Holoikauaua), is part of the Northwestern Hawaiian Islands." - might be worth mentioning the Islands' location as well
• Link erosion
• "the Pearl and the Hermes, a pair of English whaleships that wrecked there in 1822" - can "wrecked" really be used as an active verb?

Geography

• "east-southeast of Midway Atoll." - "east-southeast" should have an ENDASH, not a hyphen
• link Midway Atoll
• I think the whole section could be consolidated into one paragraph, to be honest; two at most
• Usually spell out USGS at its first mention, since it's not a super common acronym to the lay reader
• What's a "fringing reef"?

Nomenclature

• Link Hawaiian monk seal?
• "The Hawaiian-language name for the atoll, Holoikauaua, was developed " - not sure developed is the best verb here... what about "determined"? any other ideas?

History

• " Pearl's sister ship" - shouldn't all of Pearl's be italicized? Or perhaps just replace with "Its" sister ship
• "46 of the survivors were rescued by the passing Earl of Morby.[9]" - what happened to the rest? unknown or presumed to have perished? clarify please
• Paragraph two should be combined with paragraph one.
• "In 1867, the crew of the Laconda produced the first reliable chart of the reef.[10]" - any more detail on this ship? why was it the first reliable chart? who was on it?
• "Entrepreneurs from a rabbit canning business intentionally released rabbits on Southeast Island in 1894, where they almost immediately devoured all the island's vegetation.[11]" - almost immediately? who was documenting it? I fear that "almost immediately" is too vague and that a more specific timeline is necessary
• "In 1930, the United States Bureau of Fisheries decided to make a thorough study of the atoll. - conduct is better than "make" a study
• "The United States Navy loaned the minesweeper ship" -what's a minesweeper ship? link if possible?
• "The salvage tug Ono " -what's a salvage tug? link if possible?
• "significant scarring in the reef." - what does this refer to? scarring seems self-explanatory but may have nuanced differences in this context, which should be explained

Flora and fauna

• "As an example, the noxious Setaria verticillata" - noxious? what does this mean?
• The first subsection can all be combined into one paragraph
• "Surveys in 1994 and 2000 had similar results - very vague; do they have exact numbers?
• "The Pearl and Hermes Atoll supports breeding populations of endangered Hawaiian monk seals " - Hawaiian monk seals can be delinked, since it should be linked at its first mention
• "In 2016, scientists from the Bishop Museum, working with the NOAA, described a new species of butterflyfish found off the Pearl and Hermes Atoll, at a depth of 180 feet" - should provide a conversion from ft to meters using {{Convert}}; also, throughout the article you've used primarily km and converted to miles, so you should do the same here for consistency

Conservation efforts

• "In 2014, a net tangle weighing 11.5 tons was located in the atoll." - conversion?
• "It was 28 feet long, 7 feet wide, and 16 feet deep, and took three days to dismantle and remove.[25]"
• Also, same note about starting with km and converting to miles for consistency for both above comments; as well as this bit: "The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency projects that sea level will rise 13–16 inches (33–41 cm) by 2100. Southeast Island is only 3 feet (1 m) above sea level, "

Climate

• "Despite being located at 27°48'N, which is above the Tropic of Cancer, Pearl and Hermes Atoll features a tropical savanna climate (Köppen Aw) with very pleasant year-round temperatures. Rainfall is evenly distributed throughout the year, with only two months being able to be classified as dry season months (May and June)." - this needs a citation

References/General

• No dablinks.
• Does ref 4 have a page number?
• References mostly seem reliable.
• The weatherbase.com link (ref 26) doesn't seem to work.
• Checks out with the Earwig tool... a few notes though.
• "one of two recorded Hawaiian nest sites of little terns" - this phrasing is a little too close to the source for my comfort; reword if possible
• "despite being considered rare in the rest of the Hawaiian archipelago." - this is close to the source as well, rephrase

Good work. Might have a few more comments, but this article is in good shape. ceranthor 21:11, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

Hi, sorry about the long delay in responding. I'll be taking a crack at the suggested fixes in the next couple of hours. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 02:09, 11 June 2018 (UTC)

Also, the "later wrecks and site exploration" section got a bit large, so I split it into (this will surprise you) "later wrecks" and "site exploration" as two separate sections. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 09:55, 11 June 2018 (UTC)

Responses

Okay, I've made most the fixes as suggested, with some commentary below:

Lead

• can wrecked" really be used as an active verb? --> I think so, like in "I wrecked my car".

Geography

• "east-southeast of Midway Atoll." - "east-southeast" should have an ENDASH, not a hyphen --> no, it's a name of a direction (see Points of the compass#16-wind compass rose)
• link Midway Atoll --> it was already linked where it says "behind Midway and Kure"
• What's a "fringing reef"? --> apparently it's a kind of reef that forms in shallow waters, I linked it and expanded to "the fringing coral reef which surrounds the atoll" to make it a little more clear

Nomenclature

• "The Hawaiian-language name for the atoll, Holoikauaua, was developed " --> I went with "established", but am open to changes

History

• "46 of the survivors were rescued by the passing Earl of Morby.[9]" - what happened to the rest? --> second paragraph stated that the 11 remaining built a little ship and sailed to Hawaii, but I made explicit that 11 were left behind in para 1.
• "In 1867, the crew of the Laconda produced the first reliable chart of the reef.[10]" - any more detail on this ship? why was it the first reliable chart? who was on it? --> no clue. The oldest source I found about it was written in 1931, and even that just said "it went, it charted, it came home". Zero detail available to me.

Conservation efforts

• "In 2014, a net tangle weighing 11.5 tons was located in the atoll." - conversion? --> what should it be converted to?
• Also, same note about starting with km and converting to miles for consistency --> I realized it was better for all the measurements to be SI since it's an American location, so I flipped everything to display miles, and added conversions for everything that didn't have one, except tons as noted above

Climate

• this needs a citation --> I clarified that the weather data was from Midway, and added a citation

References/General

• The weatherbase.com link (ref 26) doesn't seem to work. --> works for me, I'm not sure what's not working for you
• rephrase requests --> I rephrased both slightly. They're both US federal gov't sources, so for what it's worth, copyvio isn't a concern.

Thank you for your in-depth assessment. I appreciate the thorough look. While going through and making the suggested fixes, I have also added some information here and there, as well as some photographs. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 07:23, 11 June 2018 (UTC)

@Premeditated Chaos: Sorry for the delayed response. I've been traveling for a few days. I will check these ASAP. ceranthor 20:17, 15 June 2018 (UTC)

No problem, looking forward to it! ♠PMC♠ (talk) 23:38, 15 June 2018 (UTC)

Fixed the ton issue and a separate ref format issue. Otherwise, my comments have been fixed. I'll pass this now. ceranthor 16:02, 16 June 2018 (UTC)

Thanks again for your review, I appreciate it! ♠PMC♠ (talk) 14:08, 17 June 2018 (UTC)