Talk:Paul Stanley

Alternative makeup

And Stanley wore his "Bandit" makeup for 2 shows and one photo session. That can be seen in many photo galleries.

77.123.207.115 (talk) 12:30, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

Trivia

"Stanley says as a younger child he enjoyed watching hours of endless TV cartoons" - What kid doesn't? is this really something that needs to be in the article? --cholmes75 ^{(chit chat)} 16:14, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Judaism

Can we find a good cite for Paul Stanley's Jewish roots?ThuranX 02:13, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

I can't cite it, but hes my third cousin, we have an ALL Jewish family, No if ands or buts about it.--Coffeegirlyme (talk) 10:29, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Guitarist infobox

Added a guitarist infobox to the article. Stanley's career spans beyond the label "guitarist". In this case perhaps a musician infobox might be better suited. If there is concensus to switch then, by all means, substitute for the other. Anger22 01:26, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

• I think the guitarist infobox is fine. Other than his run of the Phantom, he hasn't really made a name for himself in any other field. --cholmes75 ^{(chit chat)} 13:37, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

new Paul image

Although I understand that it's better to use a free image than a Fair Use one whenever possible, this image is so horrible and so unrecognizable as Paul Stanley that it is effectively useless, and in fact, counter-productive to the quality of the article. No photo at all would be better than this one. WP:IUP states: "Images should depict their content well (the object of the image should be clear and central)". This one doesn't even come close. wikipediatrix 01:23, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Just for posterity, the image in question is...

And while it may be horrible, it is most assuredly recognizable. ˉˉ^anetode╦╩ 01:26, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

I dunno, he looks a lot like Weird Al Yankovic [1] to me. (Albeit a Weird Al on steroids.) wikipediatrix 01:34, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Nothing a little makeup can't fix ˉˉ^anetode╦╩ 01:37, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

nah cus. they always choose the least flattering images AAGHGG (talk) 01:37, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

vandalism

it was almost completely cut off and substituted with insults and stupid blabbering. It is the first time I edit wikipedia without intent of vandalism in a long time, lol.213.140.22.68 (talk) 22:54, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Phantom

The article says that Paul played the Phantom in 2007, but that's not true, he played that in 1999. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.172.54.70 (talk) 06:51, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Alternative makeup

Why does nobody mention Paul had a completely alternative makeup in 1973 - the Bandite one? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.123.207.115 (talk) 14:23, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Infobox instruments

Stanley's infobox currently includes drums and bass. I do not believe that the purpose of the infobox is to include every instrument an artist ever picked up, but to include instruments that an artist is known for and/or plays regularly. IMO Stanley's infobox should only include guitar and vocals. If you disagree please bring up here before changing the infobox. -J04n (talk) 12:43, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

You are 100% correct to change the box to only list what he is known for, not what he dabbled with. Fair Deal (talk) 13:02, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

Voice type

The infobox listed Paul's "voice type" as baritone and it had a tag on it, it was changed to tenor with the tag still there. I have no idea what voice type he or anyone else has (except I guess the Three Tenors, and I can only think of two of them) but I really think it is irrelevant in this case, so I removed it and don't think it should be put back with a reference. J04n(talk page) 09:48, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

This article simly refers to a "wide-range". I think tenor is most likely. http://talkingbroadway.org/regional/toronto/t9.html Thedarxide (talk) 10:47, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Cool article, this should be incorporated into Paul's article. However, my point is that I'm not sure "voice type" is relevant for pop/rock singers. J04n(talk page) 12:38, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

The "voice type" field in the musical artist infobox template is intended for classical vocalists. This position is supported by Voice type and Voice classification in non-classical music. In the rare instance when a reliable source exists to support a voice type for a non-classical vocalist (i.e. Maria Carey) the source must be provided for inclusion in the infobox. I will revert the entry in this field for this page, if you disagree please comment at the talk page for the musical artist infobox. J04n(talk page) 16:29, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Association with Washburn Guitars?

The sentence about "resuming his association with Washburn Guitars" (2006) makes no sense because there is no prior reference to any association with this entity. I don't know anything about this particular topic; if someone can add to this (when was the original association, and what benefits did each party get from the association?) it may be more useful. If nobody knows any more about it, perhaps it should be deleted -- if there was no real effect on either Stanley or Washburn Guitars then the "association" becomes irrelevant.

Tigger-ibby (talk) 09:35, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

Bandit Makeup

The Bandit makeup was not Paul's original makeup. [2] is fairly clear on this...an early version of the Starchild shows up first. I don't have a book source in front of me at the moment, but I believe the change was made at Neil Bogart's request. Paul only used it for about 2 shows and at least 1 photo session. Can someone verify & make the change in this article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mezzo71 (talk • contribs) 03:40, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Painting

I've no problem with mentioning his hobbies, but do we have any evidence that his painting is of any importance? I certainly don't think of him as a painter, and the inclusion of this in the opening paragraph is questionable. EmbarrassmentOfRich's (talk) 06:20, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

Harvey or Bert?

Stanley's birth name has been reported to be "Stanley Harvey Eisen" in multiple sources, and "Stanley Bert Eisen" in Stanley's 2014 autobiography. Usually, "Bert" is a nickname, which is why I settled on "Stanley Harvey 'Bert' Eisen" in this edit.

Catwoman96 changed it to Bert in this edit. Before that, an IP address from New York City changed it to Bert in this edit on April 8, just after the new book came out.

• The 2014 book says "I was born Stanley Bert Eisen on January 20, 1952." The name "Harvey" does not appear at all.
• We don't typically take IMDb or the Daily Mail as reliable sources for biographies of living persons, but both of them tell us that Stanley's birth name was "Stanley Harvey Eisen".[3][4]
• In a Google search concentrating on pre-2003 sources (pre-Wikipedia), there are lots of self-published websites telling us that Stanley's birth name was "Stanley Harvey Eisen".[5] The same search performed on the middle name "Bert" yields zero results.[6]
• The 2006 book The Heebie-jeebies at CBGB's: A Secret History of Jewish Punk says that Stanley's birth name was "Stanley Harvey Eisen".[7]
• The 2004 book Rock Formations: Categorical Answers to How Band Names Were Formed says that Stanley's birth name was "Stanley Harvey Eisen".[8]
• The very first version of our Wikipedia article, posted on October 30, 2002, says his birth name was "Stanley Harvey Eisen'.

So what should we do? There are tons of low- and medium-quality "Harvey" references, none of which have Stanley telling us directly what was his birth name, and only one source saying "Bert". What can we do find an authoritative answer? Binksternet (talk) 18:36, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

I think that the autobiography is probably the best source. All it takes is one person getting a fact wrong for other sources to repeat it, and I would think that the man himself knows what his name is. Kissmaiden (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 12:01, 27 July 2014 (UTC)

Belonging to "Jewish" categories in Wikipedia

I added such categories on Paul Stanley page - "American Jews", "Jewish musicians", "Jewish American musicians", "Jewish singers". It is commonly known that Paul Stanley is Jewish. And it is written on Paul Stanley Wikipedia page. Binksternet reverted it on the ground of saying that it is unknown does Paul Stanley practice Judaism or not.

To me, it sounds absurd. Category "American Jews" must not include secular Jews??? Approximately 87% Jews worldwide don't practice Judaism, but they are Jewish. Paul Stanley is a secular Jew like overwhelming majority of Jewish population. Nobody tells that Paul Stanley is an Orthodox Jew, but definitely Paul Stanley is a Jew, and belonging to these categories is right. For example, in Soviet passports was written "Ethnicity - Jewish", regardless of Judaism (state policy was antireligious, and everybody categorized in ethnic categories). Accordind to Jewish traditions, according to Halakha, Paul Stanley is also Jewish.

I don't understand this edit of the moderator. --95.27.149.119 (talk) 18:33, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

Being Jewish means two different things: heritage and religion. Categories such as the ones you added do not differentiate between those two things. They should be added only for people who have both heritage and religion. Stanley does not; he is not a practicing Jew, he is not religious. He only has the heritage. Binksternet (talk) 19:11, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

The word "Jew" means: 1) Member of Jewish ethnicity; 2) Adherent of Judaism. Categories as the ones I added include secular members of Jewish ethnicity. By the way, Albert Einstein was not religious, but on his Wikipedia page there is a category "Jewish physicists". Franz Kafka was not religious, but on his Wikipedia page there is a category "Austro-Hungarian Jews". I suppose there must be one criterion in Wikipedia. For example, it is possible to use Jewish traditional Halakhic definition of Jewishness, according to this definition, these categories should be added also for secular Jews like Paul Stanley. --95.27.149.119 (talk) 19:28, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

Unless you can cite a reliable source that he identifies as Jewish, adding anything more specific than the "American people of German-Jewish descent" category raises verifiability issues, which we have to be especially careful of in the biography of a living person. Someone could be born to Jewish parents but have converted to another religion or identify as agnostic/atheist/pastafarian/etc. --Ahecht (TALK
PAGE) 19:34, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

I have read interviews where Paul Stanley says "I am Jewish". Jewishness in an ethnic background first of all, and definitely Paul Stanley is ethnically Jewish. "Agnostic/rastafarian" is not another identity with "Jewish", "Italian", "Greek", "Armenian" etc., because these are names of ethnic groups. In the case of Jewishness, the word "Jew" can mean ethnic group and can mean religion. If in the US census and ethnic research everybody with the Jewish heritage are categorized as "American Jews", why on Wikipedia it must be the other way? Even on Karl Marx (who was the opponent of any religion) Wikipedia page there is a category "German Jews". The question is not about categories "American adherents of Judaism" and "Musicians who are adherents of Judaism", but about categories "American Jews" and "Jewish musicians". Appr. 87% of Jews worldwide are not adherents of Judaism. I think that to have Jewish ethnic background is enough for adding people to categories such as "American Jews", "Jewish musicians" etc. Halakha (Jewish law) tells that to have an ethnic Jewish mother is enough for being Jewish (regardless of religion). I think it's right for Wikipedia categories too. What the problem? When people read categories like "American Jews" on Wikipedia, they only expect people in these categories to be ethnically Jewish. I don't pretend for anything, I only express my opinion ) --95.27.149.119 (talk) 08:57, 17 October 2014 (UTC)

Binksternet and Ahecht, here is reliable source that Paul Stanley identifies himself as Jewish - his speech at "Jewish Community Center of San Francisco" - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiM_tnMmYjQ . To my opinion, even if there was no such reliable source, every ethnic American Jewish person has a right to have categories such as "American Jews" and "Jewish American musicians" on his Wikipedia page. Paul Stanley is Jewish and identifies himself as Jewish. Please, please, please, think over this question, and return the categories which I added )

--128.69.251.19 (talk) 10:15, 18 October 2014 (UTC)

At Wikipedia:Categorization the instruction says that a category should be added only if it represents a defining characteristic of the topic. At Wikipedia:Categorization/Ethnicity, gender, religion and sexuality, the instruction is refined such that the "defining" characteristic must be commonly and consistently discussed in prose in reliable sources. Stanley does not qualify as Jewish using this criteria. Binksternet (talk) 12:26, 18 October 2014 (UTC)

I understand your logic, but do 3742 persons in "American Jews" category have such characteristic as "defining"? Why does Lou Reed or Paul Simon fit, but Paul Stanley does not fit? In every article about KISS or Paul Stanley it is said that he is Jewish, it means "discussed in prose in reliable sources". --128.69.251.19 (talk) 18:51, 19 October 2014 (UTC)

Ahecht, you have told "Unless you can cite a reliable source that he identifies as Jewish, adding anything more specific than..."

Here is a reliable source that Paul Stanley identifies as Jewish - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRIsAN3wFns .

Please, add him to the categories "American Jews", "Jewish American musicians", "Jewish musicians" and "Jewish singers" )

It's not very important, but that would be fair ) --128.69.251.19 (talk) 13:32, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

I got ahold of Stanley's memoir and added sources for him identifying as Jewish. I added "Jewish American musicians", but "American Jews" and "Jewish musicians" are both parent categories of "Jewish American musicians" and would be redundant. Adding "Jewish singers" in addition to "Jewish American musicians" seems like it's giving the religion WP:UNDUE weight. -Ahecht (TALK
PAGE) 15:17, 21 October 2014 (UTC)